Home processing in NYC

[nancychuang]

I'm sorry if this question has been asked, I tried a number of searches and

couldn't find quite what I was looking for.

 

Like most NYC apartment-dwellers, I don't have a utility sink in my apartment

or even nearby access in the building. So my question is: is it even possible

to develop at home? Space, privacy etc are not an issue, but pouring the chems

down the bathroom sink (or toilet) is probably harmful, right?

 

Hoping it's by chance OK...even though I'd have to figure out a way to block

the windows first! I really enjoy developing film and haven't shot real b&w

(only chromagenic) since moving to New York because of the expense.

[pnance]

All the drains go to the same place (in the same city). I've processed in the kitchen sink (of course you have to clean up well afterwards), the bathroom sink, tub, whatever, in a small janitor's closet at an arena, where ever there's water and a drain (and a lack of light), you're ready to go. Normal processing does not produce enough chemicals to cause any harm, the washing involved insures a good dilution of most chemicals used (which normally aren't that concentrated to start with). There might be considerations if your drains go to a sepic system.

[wolf_rainer_schmalfuss]

Hi Nancy,

 

in Germany, it seems to be, that we are enviromental more sensitive! I would check with the official city office of enviroment, to hear, what they have to say about your darkroom activities at home. Used fixer contain a lot of silver, which can be recycled.

 

Regards,

 

Rainer

[beau 1664876222]

I've been processing BW in my NYC apartment for years. I block out a window to load the film and do the chemistry in the bathtub. It works fine.

 

One thing that is tricky for some people in small apartments is finding a good, dust-free place to dry the film. Shower stalls are perfect, but one needs to bathe. Luckily I have two bathrooms, so while the film hangs in one shower stall, I can wash in the other one. If I had only one bathroom, I might consider buying or making some kind of tall, skinny cabinet for drying film.

 

There are certain chemicals that shouldn't go down the drain, but the common BW film-processing chemicals are less harmful than many of your household cleaning products.

[nancychuang]

Interesting! My main concern was water safety but the chemicals also do no harm to the pipes and porcelain, I assume?

 

I have also heard that fixer can be pretty bad. Are people in NYC also putting that down the drain or separating it for some sort of special disposal service?

[nancychuang]

By the way Beau, how are you blocking your window?

[av8or_.]

If you're not going to like the answer then don't ask the question.

[al_kaplan1]

Kodak has always claimed that the chemicals were safe to pur down the drain. They won't harm the pipes. If you want to reclaim the silver pour the used fixer in a plastic bucket. Throw in some steel wool. Iron (the steel wool) will go into solution and the silver percipitate out as a black sludge. Pour off the iron laden fixer after a few days, add "new" used fixer and more steel wool. Eventually you'll get enough silver to be worth selling.

[nancychuang]

AV80R: ?? Are you in the wrong thread or are you actually responding to me?

[lex_jenkins]

I believe the potential hazards associated with most photochemicals are fairly low. But if you're concerned, you might consider using only chemicals that are as reusable/replenishable as possible. This way you can reuse the chemicals until they are exhausted and take them to a disposal center. For the typical user this would involve toting no more than three gallons of liquids once or twice a year. Mix up smaller batches (a liter or two liters rather than gallons) and you'll have lighter loads but may need to make trips more frequently. For an NYC dweller using public transportation, tho', this may be the better option.

 

This is no problem with fixer and stop bath. Most of them are reused until exhausted. So that's already typical practice.

 

Many of us use developers in "one-shot" form, with the used developer intended to be disposed after a single use. Some developers, such as Ilfosol-S and Rodinal, are intended only for one-shot use. Others are used this way by preference but can be reused when prepared properly. D-76, Xtol, T-Max, HC-110 and many other developers can be reused and replenished as needed to maintain full strength. However this takes a little more effort and may not be worth the effort unless you develop a lot of film.

 

There are a few fairly specialized developers that are intended to be reused. Diafine, a two-bath developer, is one. Parts A and B are returned to their respective containers after each use. In my experience Diafine is good for at least a year and many rolls of film used this way. The only challenge is that more of Part A is lost through attrition than Part B. By the end of the year the volume in the container of Part A had dropped from one liter to less than 750 ml. This is because some of Part A remains on the film and isn't completely returned to the container. Technically, the same thing is happening to Part B but in practice the volume of Part B is continually being supplemented by the residual of Part A carried over between baths. Some folks will replenish Diafine. I just use it for a year or so, dispose of it and prepare a fresh batch.

 

However Diafine cannot be considered in the class of standard developers. While it's convenient, it isn't versatile. For one thing, it is primarily intended for pushing film - underexposing the film with compensatory development. As an example, Tri-X 400 is typically rated at EI 1200-1600 for development in Diafine. Rating the film much differently provides no benefits and may simply produce unusable negatives. Another factor is that Diafine works well only with a limited number of films, in my experience. It works very well with Tri-X 400, Pan F+ and Delta 3200; poorly with T-Max 100 and 400; just okay with FP4+ and most others I've tried.

 

There may be other two-bath or specialized reusable developers that offer more benefits. Perhaps someone else can chip in with informed experience.

[m_.]

nancy,

 

my day job is an environmental engineer on the water side.

 

typical home used film developing chemicals do not upset the sewer system but recycling the used fixer (high silver contain) is a good idea and should be part of the citizen's responsibility. heavy metal kills fish! with the size of the city i am in (800,000 or so), no home used chemicals will get noticed in the treatment plant. in nyc, i am sure it won't either. no physical corrision by dumping the developing chemicals into the drain needs to be considered.

 

hang a blanket on the window and tape the sides. stay in for a minute to see if you notice any light before open the film can. that should do it.

 

have fun.

[nancychuang]

Wow, thanks so much for the information! In the dusty recesses of my mind I remember using Diafine before but don't remember whether I liked it or not. The good thing about trying this after a long hiatus is the opportunity to do research and start from scratch with my chem batch.

 

I will definitely look into recycling the silver from fixer and am now totally at ease about dumping developer down my bathroom sink. I'm so excited now! Now I just need some film...and some free time.

[scott_kinkade]

If you're only doing film and not prints, you may want to consider a changing bag instead of blacking out the windows.

 

Also, since you said you're in NYC, I'm surprised nobody has addressed the effect of your chemicals on the alligators in the sewer. Reptiles deserve protection too!

[nancychuang]

Actually yeah, I did only want to do developing! It would be nice to do contact sheets but I can also just scan the negatives. A changing bag would be a great idea.

 

Poisoning alligators? Boo hoo! I have enough trouble with them crawling up through the toilet all the livelong day...what a nuisance.

[john carter]

Nancy, low environmental impact, but traditional fixer will rot your pipes. And I mean the pipes that you are probably responsible for.

[victor_ho2]

Nancy

 

Why? What is the reason for contemplating developing black and white film now? I think that that is just the beginning. If you strive to control the developing then you probably need to consider getting an enlarger and the rest in order to completely control the whole process.

 

Otherwise, unless money is a problem, machine processed prints with negatives are consistent every time. If you choose to use a custom lab [consider Manhattan Color Lab 20th St.] then you could also specify pushing and pulling.

 

I have had a darkroom in one manner or form for many years - from bathroom simple to custom with temp controlled sink and all the frills. And, I did it all in NYC. It can be done if you have the inclination. I even developed E6 slide film using the bathtub as the water temp bath.

 

Otherwise maybe you could get some time in a darkroom that already exists. I recall that the International Center for Photography not only has classes but has darkrooms that can be rented. Or, you might try one of the local private schools. I know my kids' school had a darkroom set up.

 

If you really want to play with chemistry, go for it! It can be done in NYC space notwithstanding.

[nancychuang]

Hi Victor,

 

I am not new to developing or trying to learn for the first time--I used to only develop my own b&w, whether at school or in my home. I just haven't since moving to NYC because I've had roommates and other space restraints. The reason for wanting to start up again is that I just really love doing it, but the reason for doing it NOW is because I now live alone and have the space.

 

I work really long hours and can't fit a class into my schedule, and doubt I would be doing this often enough to make monthly darkroom rental worthwhile. Even if there were a studio that allowed drop-in occasional visits rather than long-term rental, I think working from home opposed to the 30-45 minute commute would be more satisfying for just development--if I had shot some rolls that I knew in advance I'd probably want to print enlargements from, then going to a studio would be fun!

[bljkasfdljkasfdljskfa]

Some interesting notes about Diafine. My Diafine part A is active. I don't know if it's an accident or it's always weakly active, and people just aren't aware. I control contrast by developing in part A longer if I shoot at 3200 or faster than 1200. Up to 20-30 minutes of stand development in part A is okay. Then, I might decide to develop less in part B. The less time it spends in B, the smaller the grain. Sometimes I develop for one or two minutes in B instead of 3. It does make a difference. I think with practice, once you work out the times for contrast control you can use Diafine as a regular developer.

[ted_chambers]

If I recall, when Kodak introduced Xtol one of the touted benefits was that its environmental footprint was lower than that of older developers. You might want to look at it.

 

Plus, it's a terrific developer and inexpensive, too.

 

I'm told that alkaline fixers such as TF-4 are lower impact as well, though I'm no authority on that.

[victor_ho2]

Nancy

 

If you used to develop your own stuff at home, then go for it. There's nothing that I know about to prevent you from doing small volume work at home in NYC. You don't have to make a room light tight. At one point I printed and developed B/W paper with an enlarger in my dorm room [no roommate] and it wasn't particularly light tight. I just kept the paper in a safe unless it was out for exposure. Film will be a little harder. The changing bag is your best bet.

 

Have a great time and good luck. Tell us how it went.

[nancychuang]

Victor,

 

Ah, the home developing antics. My most experimental was printing contact sheets without an enlarger. I just positioned the neg sleeve sheet in a pitch black bathroom on top of the paper, flipped on the lights for a few seconds and got decent enough results to at least see what I had shot.

[victor_ho2]

Nancy

Postiviely primitive :) At least go to a glass store and get a sheet of glass to flatten the negatives. On the other hand if you've come up in the world - maybe a scanner? You can get inexpensive plexiglass on Canal street. I got a sheet of milky color and used it as a light table.

[sanders_mcnew]

Nancy, I've been developing and printing out of my apartment on W 92nd Street for years

without a problem. A changing bag is all you need for developing. For printing, I

cannibalized a walk-in closet. If you don't have that luxury, there are planty of community

darkrooms in town for printing.

 

I disagree with the comments above that suggest you send your film out to a lab. That is

slow and expensive. My experience was that I shot a LOT more film once I was freed of

the expense of paying others to process it for me. And patience was never a virtue of

mine -- it's great to have the negatives in hand an hour after shooting. And besides, even

after all these years, I still get a kick out of pulling the top off the tank and finding pictures

inside.

 

One specific piece of advice: Try to stick with liquid chemicals, like Rodinal or HC110 for

developers, or Kodafix concentrate for fixer. Mixing powdered chemicals like D76 is nasty

work in a cramped NYC kitchen in the wintertime -- the dust can kill you. (Literally.)

 

If you want to ask other specific questions offline, feel free to email me offthread

(sandersm at aol dot com) and I will do my best to give suggestions.

[pablito_pistola]

Had a darkroom in my nyc apt for many years. Some suggestions:

 

1. Forget the changing bag, instead spend a little more on a changing tent. They are like a

changing bag with an internal frame. Much more comfortable to work in and they collapse

for storage.

 

2. Install a water filter on the line you use for washing film. Sometimes NYC water can have

particles, or your building can have bad pipes. Or when they are working on the pipes in

the street the water can be muddy for a day or two.

 

3. I second the suggestion above to use Xtol developer. A great developer and it's

environmentally friendly.

 

4. You can buy very inexpensive silver recovery units so you don't have to mess with the

steel wool. Try B&H.

 

good luck.

[nancychuang]

Wow, thank you so much, Sanders and Pablito! I will definitely check B&H for various changing bag/tent options, liquid developers (it's actually been long enough that I forgot about mixing powders! Yeah, I definitely don't want to do that in my apartment) and a silver recovery system. This was great info and very encouraging!