claude_batmanghelidj Posted November 30, 2004 Author Share Posted November 30, 2004 Honestly, I noted a guy selling his 75mm summilux for $1350 dollars, and the light bulbs started flashing. WTF? Why would anyone need that lens, and why would they pay so much for it? It is huge and heavy, with no depth of field. Sure it is a cool lens, but would one use it that much. I forgot about the old deal where you can sell your Leica gear for as much or more than you paid. That is why I posted. If it is trolling, well sorry, but you know what they say, the only dumb questions are the ones you don't ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
._._z Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 <i><blockquote> you gotta stop rationalising and start taking photos. And not ones of the paint job on your latest acquisition </blockquote> </i><p> Aother heretic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rj Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Nice personal attack, grant. Isn't it written somewhere in the photo.net rules that these attacks shouldn't be written? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_kaplan1 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 The Ferrari analogy doesn't really fit. People regognize Ferraris. 99% of the people I meet see "an old film camera". Every rare occasion somebody's eyes bug out and they ask something like "Is that an M2?" Nobody else cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant_. Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 <i>I am more interested in producing images that will stand out in 100 years</i> <br> <br> what is that if not the greed of an ego? just tellin it like it is man.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claude_batmanghelidj Posted November 30, 2004 Author Share Posted November 30, 2004 It's a reflection on consumerism. I was born and raised to be a consumer. We were taught since we were kids that consuming is the path to happiness, but what is the key is creativity. At what point does one overtake the other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claude_batmanghelidj Posted November 30, 2004 Author Share Posted November 30, 2004 No Grant. It is true and you know it. The only point is to be the best at what you do. That is not egoism, it is the search for beauty, truth and goodness. Anyone can make mediocre pictures, but do you want to be satisfied with that? Not saying your pics are mediocre, I have not seen them, but I disagree that wanting to make stand out pics is egoism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew1 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 There are some folks here for whom the money is not an issue. Me, I use the gear I have professionally, and it has earned back for me what I have spent on it several times over, in most cases. Certainly anyone who thinks better gear will make them a better photographer is a fool- no one here seems to dispute that. But pride of ownership is no great sin, and if one can afford good equipment and derive some pleasure from it's use, maybe even make some great pitcures with it, it's well worth it. Even if it's not used to make money, if we use it well enough and keep it long enough, as Al pointed out, it will more than recover it's value through high eventual resale value or sheer durability and longevity. It seems to me you should think more before you spend the money and enjoy the gear more once you have it. All that said, buying carefully on the used market, you can put together a very nice kit for much less than you might think, as illustrated by a few responses above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy m. Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 "Why do people pay so much for Leica Lenses?" Because they are lucky enough to be free to do as they wish with their own money. I only have one Leica lens - a 50mm Summicron from the early '90s. FWIW, I have never used any 35mm format lens that gave results I perceive to be significantly better than my first lens, a 50mm F1.8 Pentax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_smith4 Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 What's a CV lens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant_. Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 <i>For me, I am more interested in producing images that will stand out in 100 years. That is the true judge of whether what we are producing is art or not. Will it stand the test of time.</i> <br> <br> <br> sounds like you desire a legacy more than anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claude_batmanghelidj Posted November 30, 2004 Author Share Posted November 30, 2004 Negatory one more time Grant. You are totally missing the point. The image has value in and of itself. When I am dead, I am dead, end of story. But the image lives on. I have never seen or heard Cartier Bresson nor Robert Capa, although admittedly Capa's life was enviable, and so to was Bresson's. These two men were giants of their ages. But the fact is that they left something, a record that will live on and create value and happiness for later generations. What the hell is a "legacy" anyway? I am talking about finding fulfillment. It is precisely in the way that one transcends one ego through the creative act that one finds eternal life. It is in somehow exploding the bonds of ego by creating something great that one finds true freedom. It take mountains of effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Creative act is because you find it cool doing it. Worrying about what you leave in the way of "art" (as if anybody's going to give a shyt) is a dead end to nowhere. Live in the here and now, that's all you've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Eternal life bull. Eternal life is in the memory of those who knew you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troll Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 It's not actually a lot of money for many people. $3000 for a lens is a pittance compared to $150,000 for a Porsche they drive only in congested traffic. Fortunately, they make it possible for the rest of us to purchase used stuff at much less crazy prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claude_batmanghelidj Posted November 30, 2004 Author Share Posted November 30, 2004 Nice pics Ray. Do you actually raise the camera to your eye? It appears that no one notices you shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claude_batmanghelidj Posted November 30, 2004 Author Share Posted November 30, 2004 Yeah, Bill, that was actually the argument that would have silenced me. I figured it out after I posted! ; ) Damn right. I live in Tokyo, where I have been able to furnish my entire apartment with everything you can imagine almost for free. Camera gear, cars, everything I ever owned was used. I like it like that, but it means someone has to pay for the new stuff, so I better not make a fuss. I don't want to jinx my luck! Viva the Consumer Society! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 "At all times I want the camera I use to be more expensive than the car I drive." and the stereo. don't forget the tunes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan flanders Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 In the strict economic sense the only camera I ever got my "money's worth" out of was the second or third hand Leica III and ancient Elmar I scrimped for and took to college with me. Quite frankly it didn't pay my expenses but it made the difference between poverty and comfort, and from it I learned that the intrinsic value of fine things far outweighs their monetary value. I have had the good fortune to own at one time or another a significant cross section of the photographic gear available over the past sixty years. In most instances I traded one acquisition for the next, but I always kept a private battery of Leica gear that satisfied my hobby aspirations while trading afforded a small profit on each transaction that eventually amortised the personal Leica outfit. I've owned and used other brands and systems-- Linhof, Rollei, Graflex, etc. but always have known that the quality of that old Leica III far surpassed anything else in its class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_neuthaler Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Al, think what you'll get for your Leicas 27 years from now, or 54 yearS from now!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oliver_biggadike Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Re your comment about the 75mm: I use one. It practically lives on my camera. I find 75mm offers more interesting picture possibilities than 50mm, and the 1.4 aperture is useful in all sorts of situations, whether it's plain-vanilla low light shooting or when you want the unique low-depth-of-field effect. And to your original question - yes, Leica stuff is very expensive. But whether an individual buys a Leica or something cheaper is also a question of what better uses the person has for the money, not just the absolute price. The look-and-feel of the M-system suits me better than any other camera I've had, and when I bought it, I was lucky enough not to need the money for anything else. That the lenses are among the best in the world is just kinda an added bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pensacolaphoto Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Compared to my 35mm manual focus cameras and lenses, Leica equipment is more fun and keeps its value. I don't have any AF cameras except the Hexar and I don't have any digital camera either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy m. Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I understand the desire to make great images, but we live in very different times to HCB and RC. We are saturated with images, both still and moving day in- day out. <p>I see some really great work in the photo.net galleries, some of it is taken with a Leica, but much of it is digital or medium format. Some of it is a original and worthy as that made by some of the "greats", IMHO <p> Bill Brandt made images that are as recognizable and timeless as anybody, using more than one type of camera. Did he use a Leica? I think that much of was done with an old style Rollei or a large format "forensic" camera.<p> Leicas are fine, but I guess I feel that it is not necessary to pay for very expensive lenses to do great photography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtodrick Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I'm always, truly amazed at how concerned people are on this forum as to how others spend their money. WTF cares! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claude_batmanghelidj Posted November 30, 2004 Author Share Posted November 30, 2004 You are all right. You only live once, so why not enjoy it? Photography is great hobby. Just imagine if the US had sent an army of photographers, musicians and artists over to Iraq instead. We would have won the hearts and minds of the people there, instead of their eternal hatred and enmity. I think the next country we invade we should send over peaceful Americans armed with cameras, musical instruments and smiles. Why do we live in a world so filled with animosity and hatred when it could be so different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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