Canon 1D sale gone bad

[dermot_conlan4]

Bought a Canon 1D camera from a photo.net community

member, had pics sent told camera was perfect low miles.

Camera arrives but the AF points are all bunched to one side of

viewfinder and are slanted or askew, not parallel on screen.

Talked to seller he says it's my problem and refuses two options

I offer, take camera back or pay for repair. I'm not a camera store

he says, not my problem I call Canon service and they have

never herad of a problem like this one. it's easy to see the

minute you rotate the main dial, any Canon user with 45AF point

experience would see somethings up. I've bought and sold here

for many years without a problem, this guy is so brazen about it,

it's like tough luck , your fault not mine. I used Payapl to pay has

anyone tried the Claim proceedure here. I'm seeting here and

close to lambasting this guy on every forum I can. Any input or

ideas appreciated.

[jon_austin]

Dermot:

 

Very sorry to learn about your experience. I'm currently advertising my 10D for sale in the photo.net classifieds, and it's extremely unfortunate when some unscrupulous sellers's actions spoil the marketplace for the rest of us.

 

If I were in your position, I'd exercise every claim option from PayPal, and I wouldn't hesitate to use the "power of the press" to put the spotlight on this guy, and try to shame him into doing the right thing by you.

[danny_lee2]

hi, charge back the paypal. if you have his name and address, perhaps you can sue at a local small claims court. then again it's your word against his which is why I try not to buy used stuff.

[PuppyDigs]

It's possible it was damaged in shipment and not the seller's fault. Having shipped thousands of guitars in our music shop we've seen instruments arrive cracked with little or no apparent damage to the outer box. I've also seen serious damage to guitars customers dropped while in a hardshell case. The case was fine but the impact was transmitted into the guitar. I assume you insured it and can make a claim to the shipper...

[michaelging]

Dermot, I had a problem with a seller on ebay. He doctored up the photos of the camera in the description in photoshop. I contacted Ebay and Paypal. They both said that since I had recieved the camera that they would not stop the process. If you paid paypal using a credit card you can have your credit card company stop payment.I had to let Karma reap the revenge I wanted. Good Luck

[kris]

Dermot, what do you mean the AF points are all bunched to one side of the viewfinder? AFAIK these 45 AF points are illuminated by a small red LED underneath the mirror. If you meant the AF points aren't perfectly centered on the focusing screen, that's normal because the focusing screen is interchangable, hence movable. IMHO, if those AF points are way off center, the camera must have been dropped or subject to heavy impact so that the LED/mirror position have moved out of alignment.

<p>

Sorry to hear your sorry. That's the reason I never buy any second hand stuff from *bay/online unless I can meet the seller in person to check the camera before handing over money.I'd rather pay extra for 90 days warranty.

<p>

Cheers,<br>Kris

[dermot_conlan4]

Could have happened during shipping, it's a Pro body and according to Canon should be able to stand up to shipping it's not a cosmetic fix I'd say a 1D is a lot more durable than some guitars. This guy is hiding his identity by using a UPS stiore address. Hey, I made an error here by taking someone's feedback and steady e-amil stream for granted, I broke one of my own rules. Shipping and insurance were included. Sometimes you have to be man enough to stand up and sort a problem he's getting one over on me but it'll come back to bite him later. I'm on the other coast so it's not easy. I made several offers to sort it out but this weasel has decided it's better to screw someone over.

[bobatkins]

Sound awkward. If we assume that the camera was damaged in shipping then the carrier is probably responsible as long as the camera was properly packed and insured. I'd certainly contact the carrier and ask what the claim procedure is.

 

If it was 100% OK when shipped, then I don't think the seller is obligated to take it back or pay for repair. That's what shipping insurance is for. A really nice person might take it back, make the claim, get it fixed then sell it again (I've done that once in the past), but I don't think there's a legal obligation to do so.

 

Be careful of "lambasting this guy on every forum I can". Defamation is actionable if it can be proven you knowingly made false statements. On the other hand if you stick to the facts, you're pretty safe.

 

The place to post feedback on photo.net members who sell equipment through the classifieds is on the classifieds feedback page. In general complaints about other photo.net members will be removed by moderators from the photo.net discussion forums.

[dermot_conlan4]

Thank you all for your thoughs. I guess I must be unusual I

would certainly not be able to sleep well knowing I'd made

somelse so upset but i guess that's why me feedback is so

good. I made a huge error here and became too comfortable

with Paypal they will not get involved in disputes. I took the

camera to a friend whos a PJ with a large daily here who's used

1D and currently using 1D Mk11's to make sure I was not doing

someting stupid. The Af points are out of position harder to

explain but if you had it in your hand well it's obvious straight

away.

 

Yes Bob I would do as you and try to resolve it and I have posted

in the feedback section.

[digitmstr]

When I sell I always tell buyer they should buy shipping insurance otherwise, I am NOT responsible for shipping damage. Shaking can damage some goods, as can prolonged sitting in adverse climate, drops, etc... even if the box shows no signs of abuse.

[andrew_sanderson]

Did you contact your credit card company? You might be liable for $0 - $50 if you can get

them to believe this is a case of fraud.

[bobatkins]

Why would you (or the credit card company) think fraud is more likely than damage in transit?

[aardvarko]

If the box wasn't damaged and a shock-absorbent material was used (packing peanuts, etc.), shipping damage isn't too likely.

[bobatkins]

It's not evidence of fraud either.

 

It's a tough situation. You really don't know what happened. It's possible something was about to happen in the camera, something internal had come loose and all it took was the package falling off a shelf to cause the problem. You just don't know.

 

I once sold a camera that was working perfectly, but after a couple of weeks the shutter failed. I didn't know about it, and it could have happened the first time the new owner tried to use it. I think I gave a small refund on the price, but legally I don't think I was obliged to. If you buy something used you have to accept the risks involved.

 

It's pretty annoying though when it arrives broken. Tough to know what to do if the seller is uncooperative.

[astcell]

If you ever feel ripped off via a purchase by mail and suspect that the seller had intended fraud (as opposed to just being ignorant about cameras) then I recommend going to USPS.COM.

 

I got ripped off online and went to the post ofice page to file a note about it, figuring I woukld simply be a statistic. Uncle Sam does not like its mail service being used to defraud people, it is automatically a federal crime. Federal courts REQUIRE legal representaion from the defense. Not cheap.

 

The USPS send out this super scary letter (you get a copy) telling all the horror stories about what they can do to you. Works better than a mobster if you ask me!

 

Go for it, you have NOTHING to lose!

[digitmstr]

>>Federal courts REQUIRE legal representaion from the defense. Not cheap.<<

 

neither is a counter lawsuit for your accusations. To accuse is one thing, to prove in a Federal Court is another. In this case, the "accuser" would have to prove to Fed. Court standards (which are much higher than state court) that the seller's camera was broken BEFORE it was shipped and the seller had knowledge of such damage. Good luck proving that...

 

Since it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove otherwise, the damaged-while-shipping theory will always account for 50% of the case. Any expert would testify that such damage could have occured while in transit. With delicate electronic items anything is possible and NO ONE, not even Canon, can dismiss that theory.

 

In the end, you can very easily be stuck with the defense costs as required if you can't prove your case.

[fxdonny]

Can you NAME the guy please? Yes it is possible that the item is damaged during shipment. However, usually for big ticket items such as 1D, seller should actually insure any shipment they made, so that if anything goes wrong during shipment, seller could claim for the insurance. Seller is the one that should claim the insurance, since they are the ones that usually pay for the shipment (and insurance) to the shipping carrier. Buyer gets the money back from the seller. That's how it usually works. Buyer can't usually claim any insurance, especially since all paper works re. shipping is usually kept by the seller. Also, to my understanding here, the seller here has refused to resolve any of the problem, or work things out with you, so if I were you, I will file a claim with paypal, and my credit card company (assuming that you pay with credit card). If you use bank transfer paypal, then you're screwed, as it would be hard to get the money that is already out.

 

Hope this helps.. It's really hard to believe and a sad fact that someone acts like that during Christmas season..

[dermot_conlan4]

Well yesterday was a really bad day for me I could not even spell

correctly...I did pay via paypal and yes I moved the money form

my CC to my checking account which is registered with paypal

so I'm screwed there. My address is cleraly visable on the

transaction but his is not there ,why. The shipping and ins was

on him but I doubt he even paid insurance, he used a UPS store

and they will not give out the address, I guess there has to be a

little, no a lot of trust here and I was foolish in my trust.

 

The was no visable shipping damage and yes with electronic

cameras it can happen. Also I was hesitant to accuse anyone till

Ihad spent time trying to figure out the problem, I brought the

camera to an experienced user to confirm a problem, to say to

UPS that you damaged the camera three days later ...well I

cannot prove that. It leaves a very sour taste in my mouth and

he's saved a few bucks in the short run. I have paid for a camera

I have had to send it to Canon service pay shipping both ways

and pay for repair yet I have nothing in my hands, it's only human

nature to feel like you have been duped.

 

As for naming I'm not sure what the policy is here.

[digitmstr]

PayPal offers some buyer protection. Also, there are terms of mediation. Was he not a CONFIRMED address seller? If so, the address should be available.

 

While his behavior suggests guilt it may also be that the camera may have just broken ,as it happens, for reasons other than shipping, etc... In any case, there *is* a lemon law in some states which protects buyers from DOA items, unless the sale clearly described the item as a damaged one. That might be another angle in your favor.

 

Have you contacted PayPal?

[joshroot]

<I>"PayPal offers some buyer protection."</I><P>Paypal will do as <b>little</b> as possible to help you out. They simply don't care and their "buyer protection" is a joke.<P>When using paypal for big ticket items, your only protection is to pay with your credit card and then go through your credit card sompany to stop the charges.<P>As it is now, you might make an afternoon of small claims court in your local jurisdiction. Might get you some of your money back, might also just make you feel better.

[ilkka_nissila]

It sounds obvious that the seller had the problem already. He was just trying to dump it off on someone.

 

Never buy anything 2nd hand without seeing and testing it first IN PERSON.

[bobatkins]

UPS will know if the package was insured.

 

If it wasn't and you paid on the understanding that the package would be insured, you definately have a case against the seller in any court, including small claims court.

 

It it was insured, file a claim. It can do no harm. I had to do that once. I shipped a 100% perfect lens which the buyer claimed arrived damaged. I took the lens back and filed a claim with UPS and (eventually) they paid up for the cost of the repair.

[stevemarcus]

A few months ago, I used PayPal to purchase a used Canon lens that was advertised on ebay as being in "mint" condition. I inspected the lens upon receipt and noticed a small scratch on the rear element. I contacted the seller and politely asked that he let me return the lens (at MY expense) and refund the remainder of my transaction costs. He refused, so I filed a complaint with PayPal, outlining my case in detail. PayPal responded promptly and contacted the seller by e-mail (cc'd to me), demanding that he let me ship back the lens at HIS expense and refund my entire transaction cost. The seller did as PayPal requested.

 

So, if only on rare instances, PayPal will act on a buyer's behalf. The key to success may be to VERY carefully prepare your complaint, being as succinct as possible, yet not omitting any important details.

[fxdonny]

Dermot, you actually already left a negative feedback for the guy, Eric Chiu. It shows up on your history. However, it looks like there are a few Eric Chiu registered on pnet. BTW, (if I understood correctly) you mentioned that you move money from CC to checking then to paypal. Why didn't you pay him directly from CC to paypal? If you did the latter, you would have had a better protection.

[dermot_conlan4]

I talked to my CC company today and there may be some relief

there I just have to submit some claim froms and see what

happens, who knows if they cover the repair that would be great.

FD I only found one Chiu here if there are more I'm sure I'll hear

from them.

Thank you all for you thoughts and input, Merry Christmas