Indoor photography: NO flash & NO tripod!

[hreid]

I am considering a lens for indoor photography, trying not to use the

flash. I am thinking a 50mm f/1.8 lens would be ideal for this. The

dillema is, do I spend $50 on a manual focus or $120 on an autofocus?

 

I was interested in what you guys thought of this.

 

btw, the goal is to achieve a 1/60s shutter speed indoors @ ISO 1600,

without flash or tripod. I have children and want to capture them in

their 'native' enviroment.

[jim_gifford]

More info wouldn't hurt the advice process.

 

Film or digital? Color or black-and-white?

 

Color film, indoors without flash, benefits from a blue correcting filter that costs you beaucoup f-stops. Black and white film requires no such filter. Digital cameras have white balance adjustments to avoid the tungsten-lamp yellow cast.

 

How good are your eyes? How about hand-eye coordination?

 

Manual focus is difficult for some people, easy for others. If your eyes and your coordination can keep up with the kids indoors using manual focus, sure, save the extra bucks. Twist it yourself.

 

Be well,

[magumi]

Yes, you need to take more details into account when making decision like that. The level of indoor illumination can vary too - in a well-lit interior you can comfortably use ISO 400 film, with 1/60 at f2.8, in dark interiors ISO 1600 might be just enough for a wide open 50/2 lens. I do not use autofocus myself, but I know that many current autofocus cameras can focus faster than most humans in low-light environment. On the other hand, pre-focus is easier with MF cameras.

 

M.

[tom_s.]

Autofocus SLR's can also manual focus, so that might provide you the best of both worlds -- auto when there's enough light, manual when there isn't. Note that some SLR's fire preflashes when there isn't enough light for the automation to work!

 

If you're going with a strictly manual camera, consider a rangefinder. They're easier to focus under poor lighting.

 

But please, consider flash. I used to hate flash -- it always looked "flashed-out" and unnatural to me. I avoided it at all costs, but eventually got sick of my pictures coming out yellowish.

 

So I started using a flash, and tried all kinds of softeners -- the ceiling, Sto-Fen Omnibounce, Pocket Bouncer, bounce card, and the Lumiquest 80-20 bouncer. And I got a Sunpak 383 which allows a choice of apertures too -- larger apertures are entirely possible.

 

Result? Natural looking pictures that aren't flashed-out or yellowish. They look just right.

 

I still use 400 speed film as I did with available light. The flash can be set to allow for f/4 to get a shallow depth of field, just like I did with available light. Or I can choose f/8 or f/16 when I want it.

 

Of the bouncers, the 80-20 is my favorite. It's best for horizontals with an 8' ceiling. Pocket Bouncer is the best compromise when the ceiling is too high or too dark. For a quick vertical, I'll just yank the 80-20 off the camera (it's held on with velcro), and angle the Sunpak 383 at the ceiling. Haven't done any work with the Sto-Fen, though -- the one I have fits my Vivitar 285 which is too big and clunky for my tastes.

 

Even better would be to get the flash off-camera, but my style of casual shooting doesn't permit that, unfortunately.

 

Even if you do prefer to go available light most of the time, do consider trying flash, it's best to know both techniques.

[charles_stobbs3]

Some of the Yashica Electro 35 models have an f1.8 lens, aperture priority, and an electronically controlled shutter speeds from 1/500 to 30 seconds. (How steady are your hands?). See the "photo ethnography" and "Yashica Guy" websites for more info.

[maury_cohen]

Wow Harry. Seems like a simple question to me yet all the previous responses seem overly complicated... I'd go with the autofocus 50mm 1.8. You can probably find it for less used or on the internet.

[stemked]

Harry,

 

A couple of things to remember. First of all is the light source, I'm sure you realize that indoor without flash and daylight film will give a nasty yellow cast. You can correct it with an 80A filter or use indoor film. Personally I'd go with a fast lens, and I personally use manual focus (Pentax) 50mm f1.4 lenses. I have gotten excellent results even at 30th of a second leaning on a wall.

[walter_degroot]

CHEAT!!!

I have fairly low vision and my home has fairly bright light.

other homes do not and i even stumble around debris ( like foot stools and sometimes other things)

Plus light in some homes is Milk AND INK - meaning there is an enormous range between the light and dark areas. either shoot in the daytime or add some indirect light like a torcherie lamp shining at the ceiling.

Many years ago a set of movie lights ( remember them?) were placed on a tripod out of sight of the camera and pointed up or to the side. this reduces the contrast and still , if used carefully, keeps the natural look. Of course most movie makers using VERY slow film even at 1/30 ( 16 fps) pointed the lights at the subject and the results were Horrible. that's the LAST thing you want.

even a few 150-200 watt bulbs in table lamps makes things work better.

but take the lamps back as the lamp sockets may not handle the extra wattage for a long time. ( days , not hours)

[taner]

Whatch out for those eye-sockets! And you also need daylight/tungsten originated catch-eye reflections; unless you are photographing zombies of course.

 

You should have really titled your question: "manual or auto-focus lens for indoors available light?" Luckly, you did not, and got some good advice (and some bad: pre-focusing under available light trying to shoot children moving around? Not a good idea unless you are shooting at f/8 and ISO 6400!).

 

I also love available light photography; but I am not %100 anti-flash. Moderate amounts of flash, in additon to available light sometimes makes makes a scene just right.

 

If you go with the manual lens, and are using film, you owe it to your self to give KODAK T-MAX 400 Professional (code: TMY - true black and white film) a try. Shoot it at ISO 1600 and push process it 2.1/2 stops. You will get the grain, and still, your shots will still look good at 8x10.

[bacsa]

Just for fun, you should indeed pick up a fixed-lens rangefinder from the seventies with the faster glass (f/1.7-f/2). A yashica electro35 GSN will cost you the price of the manual focus lens or less...it is a great camera, if the rangefinder is well aligned. However, there's some time needed to get used to rangefinder focusing.

 

The problem with SLR's and low light is on one hand, the camera shake - a rangefinder w leaf shutter is much easier to keap steady.

On the other hand... to manually focus an f/1.7 lens precisely (thin DOF!!!) in low light, needs focusing aids in the viewfinder (at least i can't do it on a simple ground glass viewfinder optimized for brightness, it's a hit-and-miss thing, say 50% or less). This kinda excludes AF cameras switched to manualfocus mode. You can do it but it's riskier. And, if the subjects are moving, like people, when you carefully focus you have to do it very fast and hope for the best. AF would help, but then, you need some light to have the AF mechanism of the camera work fast and accurate enough.

 

As to the af or manual -question... well, depends on your camera body too. Lots of them do not even accept both types.

[bacsa]

See <a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/2543610">here</a> for a low light handheld shot (iso 1000) with the yashica GSN.

[bacsa]

And see <a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/1347080">here</a> for an SLR shot with autofocus 50mm at f/1.7, half a second exposure...but my elbows were resting on a firm heavy wooden table, and the guy did not move.

[hreid]

What an amazing amount of response - I am in awe! Thank you everyone - I had no idea of the range of possibilities!

 

Right now I am using a Nikon D70 digital SLR camera. I can set the whitebalance to offset the yellow cast and have been doing that.

 

I want to try to avoid spending much money (I know, I'm cheap) because xmas is coming up. But I DO WANT to get alot of shots of my kids and they are young, so they move around ALOT.

 

I bought a bounce flash for my canon g2 and it worked wonderfully, but a bounce flash for my shiny new nikon is hundreds of dollars compared to what I would pay for a lens from Andorma or eBay.

 

Thanks again for all the GREAT advice!!

[david_bedell]

Harry, I don't think the D70 will meter with AIS (i.e. manual focus) lenses. You might

want to check on that before you make your choice. ;-)

 

Not incidentally, I think you will do just fine without a flash and without a rangefinder

camera. Good luck!

[rickaubin]

Spring for the 50/1.4 AF. I know, it is quite a bit more. But you'll be surprised how much you gain with a 2/3 stop increase.