Tony Rowlett Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Eliot, I'm keeping a close watch! :-) Backups? We don’t need no stinking ba #.’ _ , J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brambor Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Ok, in order to progress further could someone post a link to some protest pictures (no matter from what year) that could show us what the 'holy grail' of protest photography looks like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmo Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 <i>ed, I will respond to your critique as soon as you learn how to write a critique</i><p>Maria, I scrolled through this thread a couple of times and have yet to find where I offered anything that even resembles a critique of the shots up until this. Though I did find a couple of responses and inquiries about Andy's comments. Saying I liked it or disliked can hardly be construed as a critique. Your 'adult like' statement about your nephew just reiterates my comment about the levels of crit's in this forum.<p>Since you addressed only me I'm assuming that you view comments like 'great shot' and 'good' as mature and productive critiques.<p>Nevertheless, the first shot. Let's just pretend that the two officers and the demonstrator are exhibiting even the slightest bit of emotion or even the smallest interest in being there at the demonstration. My eye is drawn directly from their emotion-laden faces to the blown out area in the upper left.<p>The second shot is a mess. Totally out of focus with no point of focus, even the placards laying on the ground can't be read without a struggle. This shot only has one place it's round and about eighteen inches high.<p>Anyway, It would be interesting to hear your take on the shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I do agree with the idea that people on this forum don't know how to handle critiques without taking them personally. If you tell grant his pic sucks, (and sometimes they do) he's going to understand that you're talking about the photo, not him or his general ability. Some of you appear never to have gotten through a basic arts class, given the way you respond to neg criticism. Maria, I've said, and I'll repeat, that I'm glad you're out there with your camera doing this. I know you'll likely come up with something excellent. These photos might fit for basic news reportage, but they're not extraordinary by any means. I don't know why you don't just roll with that assessment and offer a reasonable response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic_. Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Please allow me offer you my critique. Long hair and beards are way too 1960's to have any impact today. This fellow needs a haircut and a shave, possibly a college education, and a real job, more than a change in our regime. It would be more impressive to see a regular Joe/Jane (college-educated, neat hair, shaved, preppie outfit) protesting, instead of professional protestors such as the gent in your picture. A toned, tanned, Ivy league gal in a short black dress getting arrested, now that's HUGE IMPACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdnyc Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 <harry zet , aug 30, 2004; 10:11 a.m. pictures from the land of the free!!! looks like nazi-germany 1933> Harry, over 100,000 people demonstrated against a sitting President, almost all in a peaceful manner. A few acted up and were arrested with minimal use of force by the NYPD, which is probably the most restrained and professional large police force in the world today. Why the sarcastic land-of-the-free comment? Isn't this the model of how democracy should work? Where is the parallel to Nazi Germany? By the way, I live within walking distance of the site of the convention. Where do you live? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary_brown2 Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 maria , my comment was not made to critizise your effort, I've been in the position of trying to get an image that won't be easily tossed from the mind, we are all there in many ways, and share that difficult task together. The fact is, that at least you are making the effort and for that I really respect you. I certainly haven't contributed an image here for awhile!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Rene, try Winogrand or Nachtwey. Safe to say nobody here approaches that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Rowlett Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Ray, shut up. There are quite a few people here who are <i>at least</i> as good if not actually better than those two. By the way, my dad can kick your dad's butt. Backups? We don’t need no stinking ba #.’ _ , J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Yeah, shut up. Consistently, Brad, Grant, Balaji, Ed, Jamie, and Travis walk all over the privileged bourgeoisie (hence famous) has-been's. The postings of these dedicated 'super six' make me respond to the email alerts. One needs to look no further than here for the greatest examples of street photography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtdnyc Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 <Steve Chan:...I saw some interesting protest shots at the Magnum exhibit...they were shot with a wide angle lens, some from very close up, and in color. [T]he use of black and white and a normal-ish lens seems to rob [Maria's protest] pictures of a contemporary immediacy. The pictures look like they could be from the 60's...> Steve raises an interesting point. Suppose that a protest demonstration today realy does look pretty much the way protest demonstrations have looked over the last 40 years. Should a photographer consciously use sylistic gimmicks to "update" the look... or use older techniques to stress the timelessness of the imagery? Or just slap a 50 on a rangefinder and let the Tri X speak for itself? I'm not sure of the answer, but from my point of view, the difficulty of dating an image can be one of its strengths. Perhaps the most neutrally informative picture would be taken in color with a normal lens. Perhaps the exaggerated perspective of close-ups shot with wide-angle lenses will someday look as dated as bellbottoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brambor Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Ray, for the sake of the discussion it is helpful to follow a critique with practical examples to ilustrate a point. That is the reason why I posted the suggestion. I suppose it is too easy to just blow the picture out of the water and perhaps if a picture is lousy then responding with lousy critique does not do enough justice to facilitate a progressive discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Nachtwey a has-been? Please tell me you're joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brambor Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 good question Jonathan. The issue also crossed my mind when I read it for the first time here. For me a BW photo is great on a subject of a timeless transcending value. Perhaps to photograph current affairs and demonstrations in an attempt to report on current events is better to be done in color. I think that color gets in a way sometimes. A wedding photo for example For example if we are to photograph a kissing bride and groom then it isn't necessary to know what color was the cake sitting next to them at that time. At times it might even be distracting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmo Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Rene, what is a 'lousy critique'...just so we are all on the same page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I think shooting protests is really difficult. I've tried, and all of my pix suck big-time. I believe the problem is differentiation - a lot of protest pix end up looking about the same. Signs, people yelling, people getting arrested by the cops, etc. They could be anywhere and there's not much more to them than that. Sure there's a tiny bit of drama in the moment, but they still look the same. Also, I think a lot of people are numbed by protest shots because there's so much of it in front of you from newspapers and TV. When I was in France last year, that's all I saw in the media.<P> So far, and recently, I've only liked protest pix from two people; some stuff by Brian David Stevens and pix from somebody named "Hill." These images work because there's power and gravity in the image - it isn't just about reportage of someone getting arrested - but the overall imagery with the elements coming together in a favorable way combined with some honest emotion or drama tugging on you. That's what makes a great protest photo - at least for me. <P> My thoughts, though probably a little unsophisticated... Here's a link to Brian's <a href="http://www.briandavidstevens.com"> <B>stuff.</B></a><P> Keep shooting though! www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brambor Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Edmo.... I guess saying a picture sucks gets right to the point but it is lousy explanation of saying WHY it sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmo Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Got it...and I'm not trying to be facetious, just think we are all over the place with our definitions. I would hardly consider 'It Sucks' as a critique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 "Nachtwey a has-been? Please tell me you're joking." well, just a little :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuck Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 <i>These images work because there's power and gravity in the image <s>- it isn't just about reportage of someone getting arrested - but the overall imagery</s> with the elements coming together in a favorable way combined with some honest emotion or drama tugging on you. That's what makes a great <s>protest</s> photo - at least for me.</i><P> I'm just sayin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maria_s. Posted August 30, 2004 Author Share Posted August 30, 2004 That's a huge response for just two lousy pics -- thank you all for your participation. I am not going to defend my pics and while I thank you for your thoughts on technical aspects of both uploads, I'd like you to note that this was posted in a discussion, not a critique forum. Sorry for the scan quality (see my folder for a better copy) but I am sort of busy lately and I did not notice that rules on Leica forum have changed and in order to post now I have to have excellent photographs. To clear up one more thing: both shots are full frame, 28mm, Nikon F3, Tri-X 400. Power to the people, Maria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuck Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 And who the fuk is Pogue Whatsitcalled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Pogue Mahone, aka, Kiss My Ass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmo Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 So much for an 'adult' like dialogue about some pics -eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuck Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I still don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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