Big Picture Lighting Help for a Newbie

[john_sack]

I am a lurker on this bboard until now, and have learned a good bit

from my reading. But sometimes the big picture is missing, which is

what a newbie like me needs. I have found the teaching responses that

some write to be wonderful. I read them several times.

 

My main question is about lighting for informal family portraits, in

homes and backyards and such. The issue that has me stumped is

portability of equipment (not weight so much as the need for

electrical supply, i.e., flash vs. strobe vs. monolight), rapid setup

and configuration, and ease of learning/growth. I am pretty sure I

want to use non-continuous lights (though I recognize from many other

posts that it is easier to learn with continuous lights; I'm hoping

digital will help me there).

 

Background: I am an avid but amateur photography. I use a Canon 20D

and so far have only a 420ex that I use for on-camera work. I

frequently shoot events (such as fundraisers, where people move around

a lot), so have been limited to what I can do with on-camera flash

(and things like omnibounce, etc.).

 

I decided this holiday season that I would volunteer my time at some

local churches to take photos of families (like the local Hispanic

population) that are far from home and want to send photos home for

the holidays. These photos would be taken in/around/near people's

homes because that's the only place all the people gather. I also

enjoy lighting outdoors to improve a bit on natural light, e.g.,

photos in a local park or in someone's backyard, etc. I suppose

another aspect of this is that I'll be moving from one setting to

another, with my subjects in tow, so whatever tools I use need to be

quick to use, and relatively forgiving (on camera flash with Canon's

new eTTL-II fits this in my experience). I've found that people have

patience for a minute, but not five minutes while I'm setting up a

shot and testing exposures, etc.

 

I don't object to spending $500-1000 or so. I suppose that's an

important fact.

 

I'd like to be sure I understand the next step(s) up from my on-camera

420ex, that would fit my needs for portability and easy set up and

configuration. But I also want to learn as I go, so I'm not always on

"auto pilot" (I don't use the camera in automatic, so eventually I

don't want to use the lights that way either). While my immediate

interest is people photography, I'd like to get a well-rounded

appreciation for simple commercial and other types of photography

eventually (I'll be doing a museum catalog in the spring, for

example). But in the short term I am focused on lights mostly for

supplemental lighting and fill.

 

My regular photo store recommended a Novatron monolight kit, with two

500w lights. Looked nice, but seemed to fail the portability test

because it has to be plugged in. Is there anything I've

misunderstood here? This sounds like something to get later on for

situations where I'm able to set up in one place. But that's not what

I'm looking at. I didn't see any battery-operated strobes or

monolight setups.

 

So on to flash.

 

The second setup they recommended was to get a Canon 580ex flash, a 36

inche umbrella to shoot into (with light stand, etc.), a pocket wizard

(or else rely on the on-camera popup to trigger the 580ex -- which I

didn't think was possible but was told it is with the 580ex) and/or

shoe cord, a 5 or 6 in one reflector kit. The main question here was

whether -- since I would be shooting couples and small family groups

-- a single light was enough and so I'd need to double everything; or

could I use the 580ex on camera and the 420ex into an umbrella The

flash is the major expense here (about $450) but the rest adds up to

about as much. Also whether the infrared was reliable enough that I

could skip the pocket wizard for now.

 

The third possibility was to use my existing 420ex on a shoe cord

(does anybody make shoe cords for Canon EX flashes that are longer

than 2 feet?) firing into an umbrella.

 

Forth was to use a diffuser (one of the "soft box" types, much larger

than a stofen) on the 420ex and keep it on camera. And use a reflector.

 

I have a strong tendency to want to rely on eTTL-II to handle the

exposure for me (with some FEC), because I think that will help me

move quickly without trying the patience of my subjects. Is that foolish?

 

I've got plenty of books and web pages on posing and such. But I

haven't found anything on lighting that is helping me with the above.

If there is something I've missed that I should read to answer the

above, I'd greatly appreciate the pointers.

 

Thanks for even reading this long long post from a newbie. I

appreciate any help or pointers you can offer!

 

John

[maury_cohen]

Lumedyne makes portable, battery operated flash units with modeling lights.

http://www.lumedyne.com/

[ellis_vener_photography]

get a 400 watt-second lumadyne or Norman battery powered kit, a decent stand and a

40- 50 inch diameter umbrella and a good flash meter like the Sekonic L-358. Total kit

will probably be just over $1000.00

 

Other wise get the more powerful Canon Speedlight, a small to medium size Chimera

softbox and (+ speedring/ adapter for the flash and a couple ofthe Canon camera to flash

extention cables to getthe flash off the camera.

[jonathan_brewer1]

You wanna grow, and you love doing it, you're half way there. Your cheapest lightsource outdoors is also your most powerful, sunlight, you can harness this of course w/foam core boards/reflectors, something like a photodisc is one of your most flexible reflectors(the ones that fold up and spring out to full size.).

 

Using sunlight and reflectors is the quickest way to shoot, and at any shutter speed, try set-ups that ustilize this technique before having to resort to anything else, and then go to your stobes as needed.

 

'I don't object to speng $500-1000 or so. I suppose that's an important fact.'...............depending on the build quality/workmanship of the gear you get, this figure will remain a bargain or drag you into a black hole. I have a couple of absolutely ancient Armato 400ws procyclers(the strobe heads are built w/vivitar guts), and a 285HV flash that I can hook up by dedicated cable to the Armato procycler batteries for outside, they never fail.

 

This is gear I purchased in the middle to late 80's, I've changed batteries only because of how much time has passed and not because they stopped working. I can use any of the heads w/a bracket on board camera, or on a stand, and all three together, or as a supplement to my portrait lighting.

 

My suggestion is to get the best made/the gear that lasts the longest off warranty without needing repairs, that happens to be the closest to your $500-$1000 figure, and not hold yourself to an absolute limit. If you can get something that has a good chance of lasting you 10yrs without expensive repairs, and it costs $1200.00, and that's the best deal relative to your budget, go get it, even if you have to wait.

 

I have a Contax 159 which is completely dead, I've given it to my 6yr old son, it originally cost me around $300.00, my first major repair which was on the shutter was $220.00, second major repair, also on the shutter was $180.00, third time the camera died that was it, I decided it was just going to have to stay dead, that camera cost me $700.00 NOT $300.00.

 

The comparable stuff made today to what I've got is the already mentioned Lumedyne gear, although I don't use this, and don't know what their record is repairwise. Their are a couple of people back east(out of New York who convert Vivitar 283/285's to Armato like specs, that is, they can boost up the unit from 125ws to 300-400ws, but logistics wise you might want to stay w/something already in place like the Lumedyne gear. I'm saying all this to say, WAIT, and take your time to research this, most of my mistake purchases have been on impulse/getting excited about something. One thing, always buy with an eye to being able to use the stuff you buy now with the gear you buy later.

 

You've got several roads to go, sounds like one reasonable road to take among others is having two 400-800ws portable/battery operated strobes for use outside/inside, along with a smaller flash you can use on board camera, and this is doable for close to a $1000.00.

 

'I've got plenty of books and web pages on posing and such. But I haven't found anything on lighting that is helping me with the above. If there is something I've missed that I should read to answer the above, I'd greatly appreciate the pointers.'..............

............................at some point there's an understanding you can gain only by going ahead and doing it.

 

There is no one book that can ever be the complete answer to lighting/composition, I believe you get inspiration by taking it all in, watching your kids play at the beach, traveling/exposing yourself to different cultures, looking at paintings, listening to good music, daydreaming, poetry, scuplture, movies, movies, and more movies.

 

Sometimes you see the question asked 'how did they do that?', but the real question is what was it that inspired them/enabled them to have the spark for such an idea?..........and for the next one and the next.

 

If I were you, I'd go to www.photographyreview.com......and research all the reviews of the actual users of the particular gear in question, then type in the names of the relevant gear you considering using into your search engine, specifically targeting reviews and repair/maintenence track records.

 

After taking your time to do that, just jump in and start shooting, many questions you're now asking will be answered by the results of your shoots relative to your expectations, the best of luck.

 

 

 

 

[john_sack]

Thanks to the respondents for both specific pointers (Lumedyne) and general suggestions.

 

Here's what I think I'm going to do:

 

1. I looked into Lumedyne at my photo store, and it looks like even a simple setup (a single light and a battery) will be about $1500 (and then there are the stands, etc.). So that is beyond where I'm ready to go now but it is my target.

 

2. So I want to get equipment that will get me experience that will carry over to Lumedyne when I get there (probably next year this time...).

 

3. I'll add a second Canon flash. Alternatives:

 

3a. Probably the 580ex, which can trigger my 420ex. I'll get an off shoe cord (looks like 1-3 feet) to put the 580 a bit off and above camera for fill, and the 420 will be off to the other side for the key light (though I suspect my use of this term isn't quite right; there should be reasonable ambient light if I'm working outdoors mid afternoon, so the lights will not be the only source).

 

OR

 

3b. Get another 420ex and a Canon ST-E2 on camera trigger that can fire both 420ex's. Cost is about the same for a 420+STE2 and a 580. Advantage of this is that both lights would be untethered allowing more experimentation. Disadvantage is that neither flash would be powerful and there might be some problems with varying the power of the two 420's differentially (need to see if the STE2 does that, since the 420 doesn't have those controls).

 

Advice on which of the above is "better" would be appreciated.

 

4. I'll try shooting both flashes through a StoFen straight on. A friend (who also works at my local photo store) said he's found that this is very quick and portable, and while not perfect it really is acceptable.

 

4a. I was thinking that when I was indoors I would use ceiling-bounce for the flash, but I read in a book (which otherwise seems a good instruction book for my level: "Portrait Photographer's Handbook" by Bill Hurter) that ceiling bounce is just like overhead sunlight and should be avoided, and that wall bounce is better. Any comment on that? Everybody else says to ceiling bounce, so this advice was a surprise to me!

 

5. I'll buy an umbrella and stand for at least one of the flashes, and probably mount the other flash to an extra tripod and fire it straight on through the StoFen. If you think that this would be a bad idea, please let me know that.

 

6. I'll buy a 5 (or 6) in one reflector set, and try to use it first. Since I'll be working alone (or worse, with my dog "helping"), are there ways of using an extra tripod (I seem to have several...) to position and hold a reflector, or do you really need something designed for that purpose?

 

7. I won't buy a pocket wizard (yet). I'll try and see if the Canon IR works well enough. I am not sure that ETTL-II works through the pocket wizard, and given the way I think I will need to set up and tear down stuff quickly, I'd at least like the option of ETTL-II as I'm learning more about light positions (and once I learn the positions, I will be ready for the Lumidynes).

 

Basically, the idea is to get enough compatible but varied equipment (two light sources, umbrella, reflector) that I can try a variety of things and learn. It will add up to about $1000.

 

Any feedback and further advice is much appreciated. Thanks again for the encouragement and advice so far.

 

John

[g._armour_van_horn]

John,

 

If you are looking for additional light for fill, you might consider using the little slave gizmos that have a tripod mount on the bottom and a hotshoe on the top. I found them for under $15 on eBay, $30 to $75 at Adorama. If you then watch for lightweight tripods at garage sales and pickup inexpensive shoe-mount flashes wherever you find them, add that to a couple of good portable reflectors and you could be in a position to take some good shots and learn a lot for not much money at all. You won't have the diffusion you would need for shooting glassware, and you will have to get a couple of dozen NiMH cells and a couple of chargers, but you'll be well down the road before you have to crack your wallet open very wide!

 

Van

[peter_boysen1]

my personal opinion is to start out with the canon speedlites. They're small, so you could

carry 10 lights in a backpack (if you could afford them), they're wireless, so it's very easy

to set up if you have a few stands (they're also light, so making your own stand is pretty

simple), and they're relatively cheap. I'd recommend getting a 580ex to use as the on-

camera master, and then get 2 or 3 430ex's besides to use as slaves (what's wonderful is

that you can also use your current 420 ex as a slave). Spend whatever you can then on a

few umbrella's, stands, and softboxes. Reflecters are a cheap way to fill in too. This way,

as opposed to most of the strobe kits, you've got alot more lighting options for any given

event. Also note that with the new 430ex's (and 550 or 580ex's) manual flash settings are

possible, so if you want to experiment in manual flash setups, they'll let you do that too.

 

You've got a good start as far as knowing what you want to do. Good luck.