Manual SLR systems: the right one?

[kishan_barot]

I'd hate to bring up a "what equipment should I buy?" question, but

I'm really confused

 

Next year I'm going to be going to be going to India. I currently

shoot with a rebel Ti and some lenses. Well, I don't think I should

bring that system there just because it is expensive, not-solid, and

just more difficult when travelling (many CR2 batteries vs. just one

small battery that lasts forever just for metering)..

 

So, I'm looking into buying some old used quality manual SLR system.

They serve my purpose. They're solid, cheaper than EOS stuff, and more

reliable battery-wise. But there seems to be so much unclear

documentaiton on the net about them compared to modern equipment just

because there are so many options (Yashica vs Canon vs Nikon vs

Minolta vs Pentax etc). So I guess my question is this:

 

What system would you guys recommend getting? I'll probably want a

28mm, 50mm and 100mm lenses (or something close to that...maybe an 85

instead of a 100). Just some small, sharp, fast primes with a solid

body for a relatively low price. What do you think?

[kishan_barot]

Oh yeah, if possible, could you guys also recommend some lenses? It seems like there was way more 3rd party competition back in the day with lenses, which makes finding a good lens that much harder.

[kelly_flanigan1]

<b>Why not just get an older used EOS body; so you dont have to switch systems?</b><BR><BR>The shelf life of camera batteries is good. My many; search for a discount; so you have spares for your trip. Buying weird batteries while in a remote location wastes time; and can be very expensive. Spare batteries are small; and take up little space.<BR><BR>

[kelly_flanigan1]

BUY many

[kelly_flanigan1]

Having a spare body EOS body is usefull. You can use one for B&W; one for color; etc. This can save film; plus the chances of each body failing on a trip are way less than one body.

[kishan_barot]

Well, its not so much the body as the lens. I don't care too much about the Rebel Ti. It's a pretty low-end body compared to most, but the lenses are still pretty pricey (20mm f/2.8 and 85mm f/1.8). Not only are they pricey, but they *look* pricey, which is a really bad thing.

[jeff_lu]

i like nikon gear. other systems like olympus and pentax are good choices, too, but im

most familiar with nikon

 

i suggest a cheap nikon manual focus body...like a beater fe, fm, em (should be around

100 bucks, maybe less)

 

get some user manual focus lenses...they wont look expensive

 

28 2.8

 

50 1.8 (get 1.4 only if you really need the speed)

 

85 2.0

 

105 2.5

[jimstrutz]

Lots of good choices available. I perfer Pentax K mount stuff. Probably because that's what I used for years, but they have large bright viewfinders and are simple to operate. A Pentax ME Super offers aperture preferred exposure automation or manual, but does require a battery to run. A Pentax MX is all manual, and only needs the battery for the meter. With print film, metering is sort of optitional. Pentax or other brand K mount lenses are cheap and available everywhere. There are probably more of them than Nikon mount lenses and they don't cost as much. And Pentax brand glass is very good. But like I said, their are lots of other good choices avialable.

[rob_murray]

Sorry dont understand your logic here.

The Rebel Ti is a good camera with plenty of features and only

costs $200US. I have one and my batteries last nearly 1 year!

I dont use the flash on top which drains more battery power.

Plus they are tiny batteries and take up very little space.

Also you can get the $30us accessory grip which uses AA batteries.

Not solid? Will you be driving nails with it?

If you get an older body count on spending at least $100us for

Cleaning, lube and adjustment and light seals or you will have

an unreliable camera. Same on the lenses, many older lenses may

have oil that has leaked onto the diaphram blades causing them

to stick. May need to have them serviced too.

If you go back too far in manual cameras some take mercury batteries

which you cannot get anymore but workarounds do exist.

Your worried about carrying tiny cr2 batteries but have no problem

carrying 3 prime lenses? My favorite travel camera setup is my

Rebel Ti with 22-55mm USM lens, both together weigh a little more

than 1 pound. I carry a 50mm F1.8 for low light as well.

[Jochen_S]

Excuse me, I can't understand your way of thinking. Any SLR system will look crappy enough if you use some tape, sand paper, camouflage paint on the body and lens tube surface. And it's surely better to stick to one system. 3rd party lenses are offered for one similar price with different mounts. - O.K. EOS has no long tradition so used 3rd party primes might be rare. On the other hand I'm quite sure you had a reason to get into this hightech and will miss something without. In your shoes I'd look for some no-name 24mm and a Cosina 100mm Macro f3.5. and a 1st generation body.

If you really want to go the cheap way use either Minolta (many affordable lenses), Screw mount or Pentax k-mount or whatever complete system is offered next door. - I myself wouldn't do it this way backwards. (O.K. - I had that stuff collected ages ago) If you go the used way: keep in mind your new gear isn't prooved as reliable! - so you'll do good to buy 2 bodies.

[awahlster]

I strongly suggest the Canon FD system the optics are excellent readily available in everything from 7.5mm to 800mm the range of available bodies goes from $40 TLb's to $300.00 F-1N's (a camera that just a few years ago was the absolute top of the profesional pile).

 

The lenses you are asking about are quite affordable

 

28mm f2.8 nFD on ebay approx. 50-65.00

 

50mm f1.8 nFD on ebay approx 20-25.00

 

50mm f1.4 nFD on ebay approx 50-65.00

 

100mm f2.8 nFD on ebay approx 90-120.00

 

add a F1N for $300.00 and for very little money you have a bullet proof system. If you want a body that is simular to your EF mount camera they Buy the T90 which is the style of the newer bodies and has one of the most advanced metering systems ever ut in a camera it operates on AA batteries for a long time.

 

For more details about the canon FD system email me direct and I will send you some links.

[bacsa]

Manual minolta bodies are a big bargain nowadays; the lenses even more. They were also not often abused by pro's since those were running after the best nikon and canon cameras:)

A minolta XD (5,7 or 11) body would be a very good option; the same with an X-500(570) or x-300(370) which are even lighter,smaller (maybe less durable but i'm not sure).

The lenses you look for are plenty and cheap; nope, you own't easily find 7.5mm to 800mm lenses, but 28 to 135 there's no better deal to make than with the rokkor's.

With some luck you can get an x-500 body, a 28mm and a 50mm for 100$ or less. 85 or 100 mm is a bit extra; 135mm's are much more abundant.

 

I'm sure pentax etc. have their great options too.

[fmueller]

This thread should be compulsory reading for any newcomer who wants to ask the question of which 35mm SLR system to buy into. Arguably the most recommended systems on Photo.net are Nikon's and Canon's auto focus systems, followed by the advice to get a relatively cheap body and the best lenses you can afford.

 

Here we have sombody who followed these popular recommendations, but now where a once in a lifetime opportunity to use this gear presents itself, he does not feel comfortable taking it out of the house, because it was so expensive. While I agree that with lenses you often get what you paid for, meaning that the latest professional quality lenses will give you the ultimate in picture quality, this all is worth nothing if they sit at home in a drawer collecting dust while others are out and about with their Spotmatic. If the best gear you can afford is so expensive that you have to leave it at home when you are going out to take pictures, it is probably not worth getting it in the first place.

 

To Kishan I'd say this is the time to decide if the EOS system is really for you. If it is, don't hesitate to take it to India. If it isn't, you might as well sell it now and get something more affordable. In this case a discontinued system without cult-status, but some decent affordable glass would offer the best value for money. My personal choice is the Minolta manual focus system (see eg: www.rokkorfiles.com).

 

Best of luck!

[jimvanson]

Kishan -- I <u>totally</u> agree with your line of thinking.<P>I use an EOS system with high end, read BIG, intrusive, expensive, white bodied, glass.<P>I also own a FD system with incredibly inexpensive, sharp, small, discreet lenses that I'd travel with. It's a system that you'll carry with you, one you won't be afraid to use.<P>I call Mark (the FDman -- I see you Mark!) he has given you really solid advice.<P>Having said that I'll add my two bits worth. I'd carry two AE1 Bodies (that have been CLA'd) and two spare batteries instead of the superb but much heavier F1. As much as I love my T90's I wouldn't take them they are big and heavy.<P>I'd take a 24 f2.8 instead of a 28 because my vision of India is a place where one needs as wide a wide as practical -- there often is no room to step back and reframe -- the way you would with a 28.<P>I'd take a 50 f1.4 and a 85 f1.8. Finally I'd attempt to sneak in a small 200 f4.<P>I'd buy the newer New FD (FDn) bayonet mount instead of the older FD Breech mount.<P>All 4 lenses take 52mm filters, I'd us Skylight or UV protective filters on all lenses and I'd buy a good 52mm circular polarizer (You may have to remove the protective filter off the 24 when shooting with the polarizer as vignetting may occur if you don't.<P>India is my dream vacation -- get me there and I'd want to stay there and shoot for years -- I envy you, cheers...jim

[stemked]

While litterly any manual body will do fine, here's another rec for Pentax K mount.

 

Many of the bodies are light-weight yet are well built.

 

You can use abundant K or screw mount lenses (the later provided you purchase a $20 adaptor). The screw mount lenses are generally dirt cheap but often very fine optics.

 

IMHO Pentax doesn't scream 'steal me'. Not that many pick-pocketers are that discriminating, but a Canon or Nikon is a more likely to be a target for a more serious theif.

 

In the light weight catagory, the Pentax Super Program, Program plus, Super A, P30N (or P30T) are all 80-90s vintage cameras that are excellent choices and likely under $120 (you might even get a good one for half that). The MX and ME Supers are a good deal too, but now approaching 25 years of age. There are bunches of others to choose from, but I think that's a good start.

 

As far as lenses of course it all depends on your interests. For many years I was simply a 50mm f1.4 A person and was very happy with it; now (unfortunately) I seem to need more lenses when I travel, especially on the wider side.

[robert_potts1]

These electronic wonders are real nice for some things, but they can a pain in the neck on several levels. Your best option is Nikon for both new and used manual equipment in great variety. You probably could hammer nails with some of the old Nikon bodies. Some of the older Nikon equipment is just incredibly rugged.

[phil_wilson]

Check out the contax bodies post further down the forum.. If you are going to India you'll want the best picture quality right? Try Carl Zeiss and russian glass - I went to Japan in the heat and rains .. took a Contax RX with 50mm f1.4 Planar and the 135 f2.8 Sonnar - came back with a multitude of mesmerizing photos! The yashica bodies are very good... Check the FR and FR2 and also the FX-3 which is sooo cheap in UK - 30pounds or less used-- but u get a mechanical shutter and a light-weight - well-designed body that can mount Contax-fit Zeiss lenses (and the leica-looking Yashica ML lens eg.. 35mm wide)

 

However make sure you really need an SLR as a rangefinder system can often be the best solution to the weight/creativness question.

[mcgarity]

You need a Canon AE1 or A1 body and some Canon FD lenses. Easy to use, will do anything you need it to do, and have top notch optics.

[wyverndude]

I think Jochen, Rob and Frank have really drilled into the key issues here.

<P>

If you have a camera system you like, your best bet is to stick with it. The more you use it, the more you're comfortable with it; the more you're thinking about the <I>picture</I> instead of the camera.

<P>

If you get the blue painters' tape at the hardware store, you can tape to your hearts' content, and it will all come off clean. (It's specially designed to mask windows when you're painting, stay there in the full sun and heat for a week, and come off clean -it's good stuff). You won't even need to cover up very much, any tape on the camera at all will make potential thieves assume something must be broken.

<P>

And: better to go with a set of equipment you've used, become familiar with, and KNOW is working properly.

<P>

And aside from all of that... depending on where you go, theft (if that's the worry) might not really be as much of a concern as you might normally think. <BR>Note that few people in India lock their doors -ever- nor are they afraid to walk around in town alone at night.<P>

I have to qualify that by saying that my first hand experiences in India were almost exclusively in Kerala, and were a few years ago. I'm sure different areas might be different, but my point is just that the correlation between poverty and crime isn't as closely linked there as it is here.

[steven_clark]

Start going to garage sales and thrift stores. Build a system out of whatever's the first manual focus SLR you actually like. For me it's Canon because that's the original find, for my Dad it's going to be Pentax K mount.

[silent1]

Here's my suggestion: Pentax Spotmatic SP, SP2, or other M42 (screw mount) Spottie. Super Takumar or SMC Takumar lenses in 28, 50-55, and 105 mm; in 50 mm, avoid the Super Takumar f/1.4, as most have excessive yellowing by this time due to decay in the thorium glass element (and it hurts me to say this, as my Super Takumar f/1.4 50 mm is the best lens I own, but no longer usable for color due to the yellowing; it's also about 1/2 stop filter factor for B&W).

 

You should be able to buy this kit for under $200 easily, possibly under $100 with a little careful shopping on eBay; another $80 or so plus shipping will get the body cleaned and serviced, and you'll have a camera that will work perfectly with no battery at all, or with a modern replacement cell (the original mercury cells are no longer available, but unlike most such cameras, this one's meter works correctly in silver oxide cells).

 

One word of caution, though -- after you've used a good quality fully manual SLR, you might find you lose your enthusiasm for letting the camera do all the fun stuff (like setting exposure and focus).

[Greg M]

You'd be hard-pressed to beat a good condition Canon FTb or mechanical F1.

 

Canon FD equipment is a buyers paradise due to Canon no longer supporting it- the lenses especially are damn cheap. You could put together any set you want for a price you'll like. The better cameras like the two I mentioned above will outlive my generation, and I am 42. Nikon or Canon are the two brands to consider for reliability reasons. You will pay a slight premium for Nikkors since Nikon still makes manual bodies and many of the lenses still can be fitted to even the digital bodies.

[huntrbll]

Nikon FM2 - fairly bright viewfinder, built like a tank, considered one of the "classic" manual focus cameras.

 

Nikon 28mm f2.8, AIS, solid, sharp and reasonably priced.

 

Nikon 50mm f1.8, AIS, again reasonably priced and very sharp

 

Nikon 105 f2.5 AIS, this is a lens you will fall in love with. One of the best portrait lenses ANYONE has ever made.

 

All of this is solid and dependable, BUT if I was going on a special trip I think I would make sure to take two bodies just in case....either your Canon body with a couple of lenses or pick up another Nikon body - an FM or FG - as I would hate to see you go on some trip and have your camera body crap out on you.

 

Really, though, I think I would just take the equipment I have (still have a backup body), keep an eye on things, and have a good time.

[taner]

...buying into low-end EOS and EF, being frustrated with the whole thing, and 'wasting' years until rediscovering photogrpahy with manual Minolta bodies and lenses... That has been my story.

 

Now I shoot with both EOS and Manual Minolta systems:

 

- two manual Minolta bodies and lenses from 24mm to 200mm - all fast and fastish primes - for all occasions, vacations and trips which have an element of 'roughness' about them (camping in Canadian national parks, fishing trips, long biking trips, third world security and travel conditions, humidity, center-board sailing, etc.) Since most of what I got were dirt-cheap, I enjoy care free, rough and tough shooting conditions and the ultra luxirious viewfinders of those manual Minolta bodies. Minolta will be your cheapest option. As Frank mentioned, www.rokkorfiles.com would be a good starting point.

 

- low end EOS bodies (Rebel G and Elan 7) and fast primes (20/2.8, 28/2.8 50/1.8 100/2) for other occasions from urban hikes/travelling to "birthday/anniversary" stuff.

 

If you have never used 1970s technology 35mm gear before, I would give it at least 6 months to get comfortable with the manual focus - low tech meter combo.

 

It might really be a better option for you to buy a used and clean Rebel G or a Rebel 2000, and take 28/2.8 (used or new) and 50/1.8 (new) with you. Forget about the short tele for now - that will be more expensive. CR2 batteries will not be an issue with those bodies. If you are having battery problem, with your Ti now, either there is something wrong with your body, or you are over using the on-board flash, which gives terrible results for anything other than daytime fill in flash (In that case I would stick with a point and shoot until you decide to take photography seriously).

 

Cheers.

[jsbc]

Get a 40F1.7 Canonet and use your SLR lenses/body on your trip to India.

 

The whole package probably costs less than US$800. Buying any set of primes etc with an old camera body will set you back at least US$200. And the system is not completely reliable either. The manual system will be redundant after you finish the trip.

 

Lenses are tougher than they seem, as long as you don't drop them. The camera body you have is not great, but there isn't anything cheaper in EOS land. I dare say your system will survive the trip. I don't think there will be hefty repair charges when you come back.