spanky Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Hi Everyone, Is there really a big difference in grain when adding sodium sulfite to rodinal? I'm reading "Beyond Basic Photography" by Henry Horenstein and on page 91 he suggests adding 45 grams of sodium sulfite to each liter of diluted rodinal. Has anybody tried this? I'm lucky that I live right by Tri-Ess Science where most photographic chemicals can be purchased so I'm thinking that if there is a significant finer grain result to this, I'll give it a try. I know rodinal in its concentrate lasts a long time, but how long will a one liter dilution last? Thanks, Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_cochran Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 I can't answer anything about sodium sulfite, but I'll take on the longevity of diluted Rodinal. While the undiluted concentrate lasts almost forever, once you dilute the stuff, it has a very short shelf life. It deteriorates noticably in less than a day. We've had other Rodinal novices post their bad experiences here when they tried to dilute a big batch and use it over the course of a few days. <p> For consistency's sake, I'd strongly recommend diluting Rodinal less than an hour before using it. Only make up as much as you can use right away. If you want to add 45g of sodium sulfite per liter, convert that amount to the fraction of a liter which your tank holds. For example 11.25g would work for a 250ml tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelging Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 When Pushing tri-x film to 1600 or 2400 ,I always use FG7 with 1 oz of sodium sulfite. It eats away the grain which does give it a somewhat finer grain look. The downside is that sodium sulfite makes the grain not as sharp , it looks kind of mushy. It also takes some of the oxygen out of the water when you mix it with a developer so it does last a little longer. I would try it and see if you like the look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronald_moravec1 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 The way to use it is to make up 100 gm/liter in water. Then dilute the rodinal with it for one shot processing. While it works, it destroys the character of rodinal. People have reported sodium asceborate ( vitamin C ) works even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrylewis747 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 The best person to contact about adding things to Rodinal would be Patrick Gainer. He is on this list and has tested several additions. He has also done articles for Photo Techniques magazine about these additions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conrad_hoffman Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 As Ron and Garry said, adding sodium ascorbate works better. Try to get Pat Gainers Photo Techniques article. As I remember, there are few benefits to adding sulfite, but sodium ascorbate gives noticably finer grain. It also increases the activity of the developer, so you'll have to determine a new developing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee_shively Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 I used sulfite with Rodinal to process Tri-X for many years. It was a recipe by Bill Pierce (now a columnist with "The Digital Journalist") published in "Camera 35" sometime in the early 1970's. The amount of sodium sulfite is not exact--Pierce used 2/3 Chock-Full-O-Nuts coffee scoop per 8 ounces of fluid. I just eye-balled about 2/3 of a tablespoon. The benefits were finer grain than Rodinal with a standard dilution with water. Another benefit was somewhat increased developer activity which cut the processing time a bit. My standard dilution was 1:75 with a processing time of 11 1/2 minutes at 68 degrees for Tri-X shot at 400. The resulting negatives were lower in contrast and a bit on the thin side but they printed beautifully on a grade three paper with a condenser enlarger. Over the years, Rodinal became difficult to find locally. Then sodium sulfite was only available in bulk from Kodak. I eventually stopped using the Rodinal/sulfite mixture but my 35mm Tri-X negatives from the early to mid-1970's still make some pretty prints. I've used Edwal FG7 with sulfite as well. It's a fair substitute for Rodinal with sulfite but the difference in grain is not as apparent to me. The photographers at the newspaper where I worked all came to the conclusion that the benefits of sulfite in FG7 were not enough to offset the hassle of mixing the solution. FG7 mixed with plain water looked just about as good to all of us. As someone posted previously, it's best to mix the solution fresh just prior to developing the film. That's the hassle involved. I always felt the results were worth it when using Rodinal. Give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_divenuti Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Another vote for forgoing the Sodium Sulfite when using FG7. I found it just smeared the grain rather than diminishing it, and cost me film speed, sharpness, and time. There's a photo.net member named Ted Kauffman who tried using Sodium Ascorbate with FG7 and claimed finer grain with an *increase* in sharpness for his trouble. I tried it once but wasn't able to draw any conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrylewis747 Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 This might be of interest-- FG-7 vs. Rodinal http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10276 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed b. Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Gainer's article on Vitamin C Developers is on Unblinking Eye <a href=http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/VitC/vitc.html>here</a>. Another useful article with information about adding Vitamin C to Rodinal is <a href=http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Rodinal/rodinal.html>here</a>. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_divenuti Posted November 15, 2004 Share Posted November 15, 2004 Rodinal vs. FG-7 w/ Sodium Sulfite that is...straight up FG-7 doesn't look nearly so mushy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_waller Posted November 16, 2004 Share Posted November 16, 2004 You might try mising up a 6% solution of sodium sulphite and using that to dilute the Rodinal. I use Rodinal almost exclusively. Its keeping qualities as concentrate are legendary but once diluted it needs to be used straightaway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick_gainer Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I have tried Rodinal with salt, sodium sulfite and sodium ascorbate. A small amount of the ascorbate was better to my way of thinking than either of the others for giving somewhat finer grain without loss of acutance and with an increase in resolution. Add 4 g/l of 1+50 Rodinal and use about the same developing times as Rodinal 1+25, but make sure it is sodium ascorbate and not ascorbic acid. If all you have is the acid, mix it with half its weight of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) in a very small amount of water and let the effervescence subside before you add it to the mix. If this mixture gives you too much fog, add a little borax, about 1/2 teaspoon per liter, to the working solution. As Ed saya, check out unblinkingeye.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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