Best point and shoot...?

[peter_kim2]

I think you can give Al the benefit of the doubt. Oriental is and has been considered an offensive term for many many years. Al, if you know any 'asian' people I suggest you ask them or call them Oriental as opposed to Asian and see how they react, then you will see why Andrew is making such a fuss..

 

No its not as offensive as the 'n' word but its kinda akin to calling a black person a 'negro' which was an accetable term a long time ago but not now...

 

Anyways back to the topic at hand...I also would reccoemnd a T3, shutter lag is not that bad especailly if you prefocus and the lens quality is very excellent indeed. Although they have a couple known issuses, sometimes the lens sticks half way open while retracting. Just tap it or turn the dail to get it to retract all the way. Also the tooth that catchs the film sprokets have been known to wear down.

[EricM]

brawl? did i get mixed up in somethin? it's always the tall guy..

[Brad_]

What brawl? Al asked a question - I gave an answer.

[larrybc]

I've got an Olympus Stylus Epic. It's a good little emergency camera, and I've seen some great photos made with it. But its major drawback for me is that it always resets to USE FLASH whenever it is closed. Very annoying.

 

BTW, I'm Chinese and I have no problem whatsoever with being referred to as Oriental. I don't know when it became something to be upset about. Maybe I missed that newsletter. ;-)

 

Larry

[furcafe]

I'm definitely w/you Larry. Maybe it's more of a W. Coast/younger generation/PC thing (like "people of color"). I grew up in 1 of the most liberal places on E. Coast of the U.S., but it wasn't until I went to school out in Berkeley that I ran into "Asians" who got worked up about being called "Oriental." Anyway, like I said, "Asian" is just as imprecise & useless a term as "Oriental" given that the Asian continent spans a whole range of cultures that are as different from each other as, say, Europe v. the Middle East v. Africa . . . Peace.

 

---------------------

 

" BTW, I'm Chinese and I have no problem whatsoever with being referred to as Oriental. I don't know when it became something to be upset about. Maybe I missed that newsletter. ;-) "

[furcafe]

BTW, my apologies to J Lochner for contributing to the ethnic-terminology thread-crapping. I have no experience w/any "premium" P&S other than my trusty old Leica Mini. While the Mini's a fine camera, I don't think it's significantly better than my Olympus LT (an Epic Stylus variant) or XA (of course, the same thing could be said about Leica M & R v. top-quality Canon/Nikon/etc. glass). I like the Olympus P&S's because tend to be small, well-designed, low-priced, & good performers w/a decent feature-set (spot-metering mode, weather-proofing, etc.).

[david_benito]

For snapshot I recomend the Rollei 35 S/SE. Its a diminute camera, with all manual controls, with sharps lens (40 mm sonnar 2.8), and its relative quiet. The metering isnt the strong point of the camera. You should focus with hyperfocal distant. Its funny !

 

Sorry for my english

[neil_baylis]

I don't think the XA is a strictly point & shoot. You have to focus it, and that's not an easy job. I guess you could leave it set at the hyperfocal distance and aperture, and it would remember those settings. I find I get more useable grab shots from an XA2. However, the Contax T3 far surpasses them both, optically. Haven't used a Leica P&S, so couldn't comment on that one.

[lkv]

Well, it seems the CM is not everybody's favorite !<br>

For what it is worth : I use a Minox 35. Manual "guess" focusing, but silent, small, easy to

use and GREAT quality.<br>

The others I've used and like are the Ricoh GR1. It is excellent and I love the 28mm, but

not as universal. And the also excellent Konica Hexar (not RF) with is 35mm. This last one

is a bit to big, and I finally got a Hexar RF (Manual with exchangable lenses) which is about

the same size...<br>

I hope this helps and does not confuse you even more !<br>

Lenny<br>

<a href="http://afimage.com">AFimage Photographie</a>

[stuart_richardson]

Of the cameras you listed, the Hexar AF is the best, but it is not a point and shoot. It is a

full sized camera. If you are looking for a second camera that you don't need to worry

about lenses for, by all means choose the Hexar, but if you want a point and shoot, you

would be better off with a T3, CM, Stylus or so on.

[tse_sung_wu7]

I'm a big fan of the Hexar AF, but it's not compact. But b/c of its flash, you don't have to

employ any of these silly red eye reducing tricks. The Yash T4 is OK, but there's

vignetting, and I can't tell that it's that much better than an $89 Olympus Stylus.

 

It's true here on the left coast "oriental" is rather outdated, and gives the impression of

either a clueless white person saying it, or an old-fashioned person of East Asian descent-

referring to herself. It may not be like "ni__er" but it maybe it's more like "negro." Not

insulting, but not very desirable. It makes one think the utterer is not very with it.

 

"Asian" is equally problematic. Both terms created by Europeans to refer to that place over

in the east. And, to be sure, Asia begins east of the Bosphorous- so we're talkin' about a

lot of people.

 

Maybe the original person was referring to Japanese collectors? Why not say so? Or Hong

Kong ("Honkies?") collectors? Or Taiwanese? Or... what's the point?

 

The problem is that people confound race with location. If I say "African man," do you

think of a dark skinned person who may be of Bantu descent from subsaharan Africa? Or

a lighter skinned man of semetic descent, hailing from Morrocco?

 

If I remember my Latin, "oriental" comes from the word for rising ("oriens"), as in the

rising sun. And "occidental" (which Western Europeans will use to refer to themselves "Les

occidentaux ont la mission civilatrice...") refers to where sun sets. The Japanese call their

own land ("nihon") is the land of the rising sun.

 

And to what country is Europe where the sun sets and Japan where the sun rises?

 

The Middle Kingdom of course. Aka Cathay or China.

 

Maybe the poster meant Middle Kingdom collectors?

 

In the end, what does the ethnicity of camera collectors have to do with the price of tea

in, uh, China...?

[seb v.]

My local Chinese restaurant advertises itself as "the finest in Oriental cuisine."

Of course, now that I know what insufferable racists they are I shall take my

custom elsewhere. Seb

[mark_theken]

How about the Contax G1? They are selling for under $250 used in mint condition. You then have your choice of Carl Zeiss lenses...28-35-45...which you can find for under $250. It makes an excellent PS camera for half the price of a new Leica CM.

[h._p.]

For full manual, I find the Retina 1B (big 'B') very acceptable. The viewfinder is good and it's a nice piece of kit. I keep mine in its ERC and drop it in my bag or carry it over my shoulder.

 

I had a GR1V but I just didn't find it so useful because the 28mm lens was perfect for a few shots but hopeless for far too many. As someone said earler, if you ask a group like this you're going to get a lot of different answers!

[paul_neuthaler]

Best point & shoot: Leicaflex SL

[al_kaplan1]

I guess living here in Miami with its broad ethnic mix is part of my problem. We have people of various groups from all over the planet living a peaceful co-existance. As remnants of the former British Empire places like Guyana, the Bahamas, Jamaica and a few other Carribean islands have substantial populations of people from other former British colonies like Hong Kong and India. And Miami has immigrants from all of these former parts of the British Empire. They come here often college educated and speaking something much closer to "proper British English" than the language spoken by the average American. To them even the English spoken by those academics in California, New York, Boston, etc., would be considered low class vernacular.

 

Even the infamous "N" word seems offensive to most blacks (those dark skinned Carribean islanders take offense at being called "African Americans") that I know only if used by a white person, and even then it would have to be used in a derrogatory fashion by someone that they didn't know well. But maybe that's just Miami. After a dozen years living with a Jamaican woman, raising her two sons, taking them and their friends fishing, or helping them all with their homework, there are plenty of twenty-something blacks around that will high-five me at the mall and expect an exchange of "yo n*gga!"

 

If we all just spent more time trying to get to really know one another, a bit less trying to think up new ways to take offense, life would be better for everybody.

[john15]

The term "point and shoot" is misleading. What we are talking about are "compact cameras" which may or may not be totally automatic but are capable of being easily carried either in a pocket or attached to one's person somehow. Depending on yourpoint of view, the Contax G1 or Leica/Minolta CL may well be a compact camera. As far as quality is concerned, simply housing the camera's guts in a thin titaniun shell rather than plastic doesn't really go far, though it certainly does jack up the price. The T3 has been notorius for a faulty take up sprocket that renders the camera useless. The single tooth take-up doesn't wear down, it breaks off. Cost of fix at Kyocera is $135. OTOH, they will rebuild the entire camera for that amount so buying a broken one cheap could be a good deal. The Rollei 35 is a wonderful compact camera but parts are hard to come by, available only through scavenging other defunct cameras. I suppose that the same is true of the CL. Compact film cameras are wonderful things but the last of them will soon be gone, replaced by the digital compact.

[john15]

BTW, B&H has a T3 demo on their site for $449 after which the camera will be a special order item. I guess thay can't sell them even with the $100 rebate.

[fran_ois_courtois]

depending on budget, stylus epic/mju II, or contax T3<p>"If we all just spent more time trying to get to really know one another, a bit less trying to think up new ways to take offense, life would be better for everybody."<p>Well said

[eric merrill]

I really liked my Nikon 35Ti for a small, carry around camera.

 

It got much use as my small, carry around alternative to my SLR until I bought my M6. I keep thinking I should get a collapsible 50 for my M6, and then it will be even more portable.

 

While the Stylus Epic is a nice cheap camera and it's what I use instead of a disposable, it's not as easy to use as either the M6 or 35Ti. If the Stylus gets broken, oh well. I can replace it cheaply.

[celerystalksme]

The T3 seems to be the most recommended camera so far...but then a couple people have said that the T3 is problem plauged. Sounds like it'll surely break on me within the first 3 minutes of ownership!!!! Not something I'd expect from a $500+ camera...

 

Hmmm...

[mattalofs]

Having owned the two cameras on the list that are at the extreme ends of the size range (hexar vs oly epic), the idea that either are truly pocketable is wishful thinking (both are fine cameras btw). The epic is tiny in comparison to the hexar, but it doesn't fit in my pants pocket or shirt pocket. All of these cameras are shirt pocket cameras. At that point, why not carry an M6 with a 35 f2, and actually have control of what you are doing?

 

Now if you really want something that fits in your pocket, phillips makes a memory stick that has a camera built into it. Kind of like a camera phone without the phone; that's pocketable.

[mattalofs]

"All of these cameras are shirt pocket cameras"

 

Ignore that entirely, not sure what synapses got crossed to make that one come out.

[celerystalksme]

Matt,

 

I have the olympus stylus...i think it's very pocketable. i put it in the pocket of my cargo pants, i put in my inside coat pocket, i put it the little outter pockets of my backpack, i stick it in my glove compartment or center console in the car...

 

it pretty much goes everwhere very easily and comfortable with out any additional bags or equipment...

[jim_mcbride]

If you want to see what can be done with a Leica CM, please take a look at Trevor Hare's

CM pictures on photo.net. His English church interiors are especially brilliant. My own

pocket P&S is an Oly Stylus Epic. It can't be beat for low cost, good pix, portability,

ruggedness and (a hidden benefit) you don't have to worry if you get caught out in the

rain.