Anyone else here is happy that the F6 is not digital/film hybrid?

[federico2]

I've read all the forums concerning the F6 and a lot of people seem disappointed because

they expected to see a film/digital hybrid from nikon. I am howeber happy nikon didn't try

this. First of all, doing such a camera is incredibly complicated I guess. A lot of

compromises would have had to been made and the camera itself would have been

enormous. The body certainly wouldn't have been so resistant and weather-sealed and

much more subject to vibrations. And with both film & digital backs, it would probably

have ended up costing more than the F6 and D2X together. I, personally, am happy that

nikon made two differenciated products for two different types of photographs.

 

Best regards,

 

Federico Sartorio

[richard_milner2]

As I understand it the F6 combines the best features of the F100 and F5 for a reasonable price. I should think it's the last pro level film camera Nikon will ever do. As a possible buyer, I'm glad they're rounding out the film line with such a good body.

 

I don't think it makes sense to build a digi/film hybrid. Most people switching to digi are unlikely to want to swap back to film, even on an occasional basis. Users who wanted to, would be better off to have a film body and a digi body. That way, they can upgrade their digi body every 2-3 years as technology advances.

 

I agree that the combined body would not make sense from a construction and cost point of view.

[jose_angel]

With regard to my needs, I could see in the F6 a great improvement in the F line cameras. I feel satisfied with that success.

 

It doesn`t have removable viewfinder (I like to use the 6x finder only in my F3), or AA size batteries... or a digital back (I`m not worried about it)... perhaps it would be better called F200... but this camera will mean a real update to the F4 series, what I consider the last best Nikon F line camera. As you can see, I`m not a F5 fan; compatibility with my -great old lenses- was -deliberately limited- on the F5 monster.

 

I didn`t see on the F6 the ADR window, I want to think that inside there is an electronic solution to that... or the removable little lever for the non-Ai lenses (well, I can use all but this oldest ones).

 

I want to try one of these, and, who knows...

[EricM]

A hybrid camera would be just silliness. Who would actually carry cf cards and rolls of film? Maybe three or four? So yeah, stupid rumour started here probably.

 

Yep, I'm getting an F6. All my other Nikon film bodies and sb's are for now for sale. I want ittl just like my dslr.

[ilkka_nissila]

I carry film and CF cards all the time, and two bodies. So do many pros. That's why the F6 was made, so that pros could swap between film and digital without a user interface change.

[EricM]

The F6 is a film camera Ilkka. I use both and carry both. I could never forsee a situation, professionally, where i would some how pull a half exposed roll of film out a bodie, take the door off, and place a digital dust free door in place. I don't know what professionals you shum around with, but I can't see it. For the next little while you'll need a film body to deal with the digitals pitfalls. but once we are up to noise free 3200 iso capabilities in five years, you'll hardly be be able to buy film for your hybrid camera. That's just the way it's gonna be.

[beno_t_marchal]

<p>I'm not missing an hybrid but I would like to see an upgradable digital back (similar to

medium format).

<p>I believe that CCD/CMOS technology improves faster than the rest of the body. Sure

the AF, metering and flash support get upgraded, mostly for the better but the changes

are not as radical (in my view) or important as the changes I expect from the sensor.

<p>Likewise for the viewfinder. It seems to me it would make sense to invest in a better

quality and retain it for many years... certainly more years than I expect from a CCD/

CMOS.

<p>I'm not a pro so I got myself a D70 and while it's a great camera, I could see myself

investing in a better body if I knew I will retain the body for many more years than I expect

to use the D70... Similar to how I invest in lenses.

<p>Given Nikon has standardized on the DX format, it sort of make sense...

<p>Just a thought but the lack of an hybrid is no big deal.

<p>--ben<br><a href="http://www.marchal.com">marchal.com</a>

[alistair o]

Umm Eric, the F6 takes both film and CF. The CF stores the EXIF data.

[vivek iyer]

I am getting one after the purchase of a D2x.

 

Hybrid?! Go over to Leica Photography (it is a class in to its own!).

 

Vivek.

[ravi_swamy]

I was hoping for all film but with removable film backs like a Hasselblad. That way I could avoid carrying a second body around.

[arnabdas]

Seems Nikon has no plans to include in their pro bodies the <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=007JAR">microwave oven</a> ("Nikkrowave" as Melvin Bramley put it) I've been hoping for. Oh well -- perhaps Canon will include one in their bodies someday ...

[ilkka_nissila]

Eric, if you were to keep track of my comments, you'd see that I don't support the idea of a 35 mm/digital hybrid camera. You said: "Who would actually carry cf cards and rolls of film?" I interpreted that to mean that in your opinion it's not sensible to do so. In the next post you say that you carry both. So why the question?

 

I said the F6 was made so that pros could swap between digital and film without a user interface change. That's what I meant, of course meaning the F6 as it is and not an imaginary photo.net hybrid F6 (why would I say that the F6 is meant to be hybrid when it exists and is a film camera?). The user interface and functionality of the F6 is very similar to the D2 series, the AF works the same, the flash works similarly, the meter is similar, etc. etc.

 

As for the dust-free part, a medium format digital back is a lot easier to clean from dust than a DSLR. But in 35mm size it's a lot easier to carry separate bodies.

[ellis_vener_photography]

<I>As I understand it the F6 combines the best features of the F100 and F5 for a

reasonable price.</I> yes and no. the meter, autofocus, shutter , and related

computers and mechanics inside the F6 are very different from what is in either the F5 or

the F100. the size is I throughly the size of the F100 but felt slightly larger and more

"solid.' The F6 is significantly quieter than the F5. Nikon did a very thorough analysis of

all

of the moving parts in an SLR and found ways to reduce both the noise and the battery

drain. The F6 shares the basic body components used in the D2H & D2X as well as the

meter from the D2X .

[roger_michel]

thank you ellis. anyone who thinks this is just a more robust f100 hasn't read the spec sheet. and thank goodness they kept the manual rewind for those moments. however, especially in view of the battery life situation, i wish they had built in some manual shutter speeds. the fm3a concept would have been great, but even a few manual speeds would have a strong point in its favor. in this battery intensive age, it would be nice to know you have one camera in your bag that will always fire. i think it would have been a god professional selling point -- certainly a difference from canon. it would also have given the camera more appeal to the large number of serious amateurs who will buy this camera and still like to associate nikon with the original mechanical F/F2.

[scott_eaton]

If I want an improvement over an F3, F4 or F5 I suggest buying a medium format and getting a leap in image quality vs buying a stupid Leica and learning how to be a bigot.

[david_h._hartman]

<em>"As you can see, I`m not a F5 fan; compatibility with

my -great old lenses- was -deliberately limited- on the F5

monster." --Jose Angel<br>

</em><br>

AI and AIS compatibility was not "deliberately limited"

on the F5 and compared to the F6 running AA or Li-ion batteries

its not a monster.<br>

<br>

An F5 with (8) AA lithium batteries and a 1" strap weighs 1,344g.

The F6 will weigh 1028g with (2) CR123A lithium batteries and a 1"

strap. Once you add an optional MB-40 battery pack it will surely

increase in weight around 300g more. Chances are slim that the F6

with MB-40 battery pack will weight less than the F5. I hope it

won't weigh more.<br>

<br>

One thing that Im sure has hurt the Nikon F5 is the myth

that its a monster. The F5 weighs just 4g more than an F3

with MD-4 and 40g less than the F3HP with MD-4. Since all three

carry a load of 8, AA batteries this comparison stands if the

same type of batteries are used in all. The F5 also weighs 22g

less than the F4s with (6) AA lithium batteries and 180g more

than the F4 with MB-20 and (4) AA lithium batteries.<br>

<br>

The F4s is a hybrid between systems using part of the AIS type

metering of the FA and part of the more modern CPU type metering.

As such it has issues with slow lenses in macro and telephoto

with some teleconverters. The matrix metering in the F4s is not

spectacular either so it's compatabilty is a mixed bag. The AF is

lame compared to the F100 and F5 and it does not offer any way of

disconnecting the AF from the shutter button. The F4 is an

incremental improvement with some flaws just like the F2, F3 and

F5.<br>

<br>

Regards,<br>

<br>

Dave Hartman.

[EricM]

Ilkka, why would I keep track of everything you've said in previous posts? You posted in a thread about hybrid film/digital camera. It sounded to me like you thought the camera was hybrid.

[jose_angel]

"AI and AIS compatibility was not "deliberately limited" on the F5... "

 

David, Why consider you this? Matrix metering (or AMP) was a characteristic or benefit with the FA and later with the F4, with MF lenses; why Nikon didn`t add this feature to the powerful "flagship F5"? With the F philosophy, it must be added, but probably the main reason was economic. The new philoshophy was: If you want to use a multipattern metering, buy new lenses.

 

Now, (if so, note that I really don`t know if it is possible), the F6 philosophy could be: if we want to sell more top-priced film cameras, we must give a chance to the fetishists legion who still live with their Ai or AiS lenses&junks.

 

The mith of the monster: It is so easy to recognize a F5. It is the biggest Nikon ever made. You cannot deny it. If you need to use or not the battery grip in all the F Nikons, to reduce size, it is your decision, except in the F5; you must carry always with this full size camera.

 

Yes, you are right, weight in the F4 (and in the very obsolete MD-4) is massive. Even this, the F5 is heavier! Of course, with a greater energy reserve, -loaded on your neck-. I prefer to have spare fresh-loaded MB-20s in my bag.

 

Probably the F5 is the most pro camera, and the less versatile. I always thought that the F5 had been designed only for soccer journalists.

 

At first, I was very skeptical about the matrix metering with the F4... but it was a real improvement over center weighted metering cameras. My percentage of correctly exposed 35mm slides are bigger.

 

About the AF... I have the same opinion than you.

Glad to discuss with you,

[jim_gifford]

Scott wrote "...vs buying a stupid Leica and learning how to be a bigot."

 

Okay, but if I already KNOW how to be a bigot is it okay to buy a Leica then? Just checking...

 

Federico, yes, it is good that Nikon didn't make the F6 a combination digital and film camera. With today's technology, that combination would perforce be a jury-rigged product, a kludge, a dog.

 

Before there was autofocus, there was a clip-on monstrosity that in retrospect appears to have been a pretty good rough draft for how the Star Trek "Borg collective" would assimilate a Nikon.

 

That's the sort of thing a 2004 hybrid digital-and-film camera would be. Yeech.

 

I'm not sure there ever will be a good camera that produces both film and digital output. By the time we know HOW to do that we may no longer have a good WHY to justify it.

 

Be well,

[jose_angel]

Yes, it could be like that VHS video + DVD player all in one machines...

[david_h._hartman]

<em>"David, Why consider you this? Matrix metering (or

AMP) was a characteristic or benefit with the FA and later with

the F4, with MF lenses; why Nikon didn`t add this feature to the

powerful "flagship F5"?" --Jose Angel<br>

</em><br>

The FA, F4 and one other Nikon body sensed the maximum aperture

mechanically. For the D2H and I presume D2X and F6 you enter the

information via the game pad and LCD. A kind of modern day "f/5.6

Rumba."<br>

<br>

The F4 was a hybrid as it gained the information for AF lenses

electronically and AI lenses mechanically. The problem for both

AF and MF macro lenses is extension tubes or bellows break either

path. Tubes with electronic contacts, Kenko for example, relay

the electronic maximum aperture but exposure compensation needs

to be used for the length of extension, e.g. 1 stop would be

needed for a 30mm tube used with an AF 60/2.8D. Thats not

exact as it doesnt consider papillary magnification if any

and loss of focal length through floating elements or similar

close range correction but it should be close.<br>

<br>

I never found matrix metering that useful in the F4/F4s and I

never minded using center-weighted metering. I also use hand held

meters a lot.<br>

<br>

I hope the F6 allows stop down metering via the DOF preview

button but my guess is it does not. The F5 does, the F100 does

not. You can break the auto-aperture link with an E2 tube or

minor modification to an M2 tube and have stop down metering with

an F100.<br>

<br>

Regards,<br>

<br>

Dave Hartman.

[ist_petit]

Where's the mechanical MLU lever?

[david_h._hartman]

<em>"Where's the mechanical MLU lever?" --Ist Petit<br>

</em><br>

There is no lever. Its is set by the film advance mode

selector.

[david_h._hartman]

<em>"Now, (if so, note that I really don`t know if it is

possible), the F6 philosophy could be: if we want to sell more

top-priced film cameras, we must give a chance to the fetishists

legion who still live with their Ai or AiS lenses&junks."

--Jose Angel<br>

</em><br>

"fetishists legion?" This implies that everyone (or at

least legions) who uses AI or AIS lenses suffer from displacement

of sexual arousal. Should this be rebuffed or should we let it

slide as a fine example of Authentic PHOTO.NET Gibberish?<br>

<br>

---<br>

<br>

<em>"The mith of the monster: It is so easy to recognize a F5."

--Jose Angel<br>

</em><br>

Yes and it will be so damned easy to mistake a cheap F6 film

camera for one of those really expensive Nikon DLSR(s). Come on,

the F6 with a MB-40 will have all the presence of a Nikon F5. The

biggest problem is the bold white on black "NIKON" on

the front of the camera. I blacked out two of FE2 so people

wouldnt say "Ooh! Nikon."<br>

<br>

If you dont want to standout take a little saltpeter, then

take a brassed-out FM and two or three AIS junks youll

become completely invisible.<br>

<br>

Sorry,<br>

<br>

Dave Hartman.

[jose_angel]

"... "fetishists legion?" This implies that everyone (or at least legions) who uses AI or AIS lenses suffer from displacement of sexual arousal... "

 

Nooo...

 

-fetish [fet```] A noun (`-1 juju, voodoo, hoodoo, fetish, fetich)

a charm superstitiously believed to embody magical powers

 

--2 fetish, fetich: excessive or irrational devotion to some activity; "made a fetish of cleanliness"

 

 

 

 

"... Should this be rebuffed or should we let it slide as a fine example of Authentic PHOTO.NET Gibberish?"

 

Yes!

 

I`m always glad to read your comments (... I`m some kind of buddist...)

 

Jose Angel