Reflections of of Bottles?

[k_michael]

I'm attempting to foillow a lighting diagram from a lighting book I

purchased at Amazon. This book ispart of the "Lighting Series"

publications. I'm attempting to photograph a bottle of liquer and

accordingto the diagram, the softbox is above ans slightly behind the

bottle. The photo in the book shows nop reflection of the softbox at

all. I myself have psoitioned the softbox just the way the manual

says and just can't seem to get rid of the refelection. Do you think

these books are similiar to cookbooks in the sense that the author

isn't telling me everything? Or is it possible the photo

was "shopped" and the author isn't talking about it? I wish I could

postthis photo for you to see it.

[barmijo]

Photographing glass, especially filled with translucent liquids is among the toughest lighting jobs. Only water is tougher IMHO.

 

Most likely the author used a flag over the bottle to block the reflection. One way to do this is to place a piece of foamcoare in the position of the flag. Compose the photo and then(assuming you're using a lens with a tripod collar) remove the camera from the lens and shine a flashlight through the lens (I have a flashlight with a lens mount attached that I made from an old body cap). Turn out the lights and you'll see where the reflections will come from. Draw an outline of the flag on the foamcore. Cut it out and hold it in place with wire during the exposure.

 

Practice, practice, practice ;-)

 

Best of luck,

Bert

[garry edwards]

Maybe it was retouched, maybe it wasn't.

 

Some bottles, especially wine bottles, have a surface with a matt surface and low reflectivity and it's quite possible to avoid reflections, with others it's impossible.

 

I feel that one problem with lighting books is that the diagrams only tell half the story. They sometimes forget to mention the distance of the light from the subject, or the size of the light, both of which are very relevant if you're trying to avoid or minimise specular highlights.

 

Also, the way that one well-known series of books works is that the publishers contact photographers and ask whether they can use a particular shot for an upcoming book. They then ask for a description of the lighting setup, a lighting diagram and exposure details - of a shot maybe taken 5 years ago! Unless the photographer happens to be the organised type, the info that ends up in the book can end up as a work of well-intended fiction.

 

You may find it helpful to take a look at the Lighting Themes archived under 'Administration' in this forum, and especially the one on diffused specular highlights.

 

Hope this helps

[bill c.]

>>>I feel that one problem with lighting books is that the diagrams only tell half the story.<<<<

 

You've got that right. I've got a four-year degree in photography, done magazine covers, advertising, etc. and there are times I've looked at books on lighting and said to myself, "B.S., they don't have a light there, there's no skim on that side, and there is skim on the other side with no light in the diagram, and they're not mentioning the dulling spray they used on the side of that glass, or the gobo that they must have needed to keep the spill off the top of the product," etc.

 

Granted, there are some very important techniques I have learned from books, especially the Global Notes series, but there are times when I was starting out that I learned I had to parse things out for myself.

 

Often, you have to look at several examples from the same photographer and see where he's mentioning a certain technique in one photo, then see where he used it but didn't mention it in another. Other times, it's just assumed that the reader will know certain things about a set up, or that an editor decided she didn't have enough space and was cutting out what she felt were the least important tidbits.

 

There was one time when a photographer was giving a lecture and absolutely swore that she didn't use fill-flash for an outside shot, when a sharp, narrow rim shadow was clearly visible around the subjects, indicating that she absoloutely had used it.

 

There was another time when a still-life shooter got a saturated magenta glow from lights under a tabletop beneath a product (this was before digital). He allegedly told us all about the shot at a lecture, and I pointed out that he couldn't have gotten that much saturation in the table surface with the strobes reflecting off of it, he had to have used something like black felt during the main exposure and removed it for a bottom-light only exposure. He looked very sheepish, and said that he felt that it may have been too advanced a technique to explain (I think he just wanted the other photographers to try the technique and fail, so they would get too frustrated to give him any competition).

 

I learned a lot of fashion lighting techniques by looking at the eyes of models. The front-lighting that the photographer used is reflected in the cornea, giving me a fish-eye view into the photographer's studio.

 

Best of luck. -BC-

-BC-

[cecil_thornhill]

Re bottles - The material will make a big difference (surface texture) and you will most likley need both flags and reflectors. I would suggest you get some black and white foamcore - some 3' or 4' and some cut to small sizes. In a room where you can see the modeling light with no other interfearance (most of the time a dark room) watch what happens when you place dark or light materials beside and below the bottle, and of course try flagging the softbox. You may find you have to shoot more than one frame and combine them to get lables and bottles just right. Notice the effect of the flag as it gets closer or farther from the softbox too. Do check the lighting archive here and try diffusing the softbox with a large close scrim and watch the highlight dim and spread. Combine all the above and a enjoy the wonderful world of bottles - they can be a joy and a pain all at once. One of the bigger challenges is often how to get the darn reflectors and scrims to hold in place for the shot. Don't overlook the powerfull effect camera height has on the shot too! The curves of most bottles dictate some odd shooting postions.

 

PS - If you can get it a copy of Lighting Science and Magic is a nice companion while doing this work.

 

Good Luck,

 

Cecil Thornhill

[ellis_vener_photography]

<I>...one problem with lighting books is that the diagrams only tell half the

story.</I><P>That is a very optimistic way of looking at it. The more precise the

instructions seem to be, especially in a diagram, paradoxically the less useful I've found

them to be. You just have to look at them as sources of general concepts. One could do a

book of every conceivable lighting situation in a studio but you would not want to pay for

it or pick it up -- and tomorrow there there would be something new to add.<P>

 

What is left out? In this case: maybe your bottle has a diferent shape, or maybe the

photographer used flags, scrims or gobos that he or she just forgot to make note of. Is

there a discussion of relative size of the light to the object being lit? what aboutthe

distance from the light to the bottle/ What about camera to subject distance and camera

height relative to subject? Was the photographer in the book using a view camera while

you are using a small or medium format SLR ( a monorail view camera will let you alter the

apparent POV perspective) ?

[k_michael]

I figured it out. The softbox on top is way in back and partially flaged in order to keep some light off the background. The light falling on the bottle is only feathered light. Once I used this technique, the softbox vanished from view.