Now what am I doing wrong

[marc_lieberman1]

Okay, I've practiced rolling the film onto the metal spool. Now I've

got what looks like water spots on my negatives. In the final rinse,

I'm putting in a litte "Orbit Bath - the 5 Minute Multi-Purpose Photo

Concentrate" on the instructions of David from the local camera store.

I thought it was supposed to help the water just slide off the

negatives without spotting. My negatives look like the hood of my car

after it rains.

 

So how do I correct this problem?

 

(By the way, thanks for all your advice on my previous "Cry for Help"

thread.)<div></div>

[spider_.]

1) Get the Jobo film squeege and use it. Also consider using distilled water for all

processes except the wash.

 

2) The image looks underdeveloped. Check the developer solution temperature carefully

with a good quality photography thermometer. If you think the exposure was correct,

then try increasing the development time.

[russ_butner___portland__or]

A touch of Photo-Flo, in the final rinse, and squeegy them between two fingers, before you hang them to dry.

 

Russ<div></div>

[alex_f2]

I've never heard of orbit bath...I use Kodak's PhotoFlo. It does a fine job.

I'm a high school student who has been developing since August, so I'm pretty new, but I've never had problems with my negatives. I don't have much information on your processing technique, so let me pose a couple rhetorical questions that should give you some ideas.

 

How well do you wash the film after fixing it? I've noticed that a lot of people in my class barely wash it at all, and they have similar problems to yours.

 

Do you wash the film after using the orbit bath? People in my class do this too---it defeats the purpose of the chemical.

 

After using the bath, do you squegee it with your fingers? I run my fingers gently down the film *once* to get the excess water off. I would recomend against using a blow dryer. Dust would get blown onto the wet negatives and embedded into the emulsion.

Hope that helps.

[jeffcallen]

For film, I wash normally, then soak in distilled water for

1 minute. Then I hang the film and spray both sides with distilled water from a spray

bottle, really soaking it, spraying every 2 inches. Note that the film is hung with 2

clothespins on the bottom to keep it from curling and waving in the slight wind of me

walking around. Note that I don't look at the film till the next day, moving it around while

drying has caused me marks in the past. When done squirting water, I shut the door and

leave the film perfectly still till the next

morning. After trying all sorts of products including photo-flo, I found that the method

above worked best for me.

[jeffcallen]

Note, I don't use a squeegee at all, I've found they scratch sometimes. The distilled water

soak and spray method seems to have the least spots and scratches in my experience.

[marc_lieberman1]

Help me out with this washing and soaking business. After I pour out the fixer, I should:

 

(1) let the faucet run into the canister (how long?)

 

(2) then put in a dash of Orbit Bath or Photo-Flo.

 

 

 

(3) then dump out the water containing the Orbit Bath/Photo-Flo and pour distilled water into the cannister, and let it soak for __ minutes (how long?).

 

(4) then remove the developed film from the spool, hang it up (I've got little weighted clips for the bottom), and spay with more distilled water.

 

(5) then squeegy the negatives with either my fingers, or with a Jobo squeegy. (I take it with the Jobo squeegy, I may get rid of more water spots, but risk scratching my negatives.)

 

Am I getting this right?

 

 

(By the way Russ, beautiful photo.)

[marc_lieberman1]

Spider- How can you tell if the image is under developed as opposed to under exposed?

[jim philopena]

Marc,

 

Those spots look like dried chemical residue. My guess would say it's the Fixer. Here's a good path to follow and some tips on how to handle that film after the fix.:

 

Wash your film in the developing tank while still on the reel(s) for about 1 - 2 minutes. Get yourself some Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent and mix it up according to the package. Next, Empty the rinse water from the tank and pour in the Hypo Clearing Agent for 2 minutes and then pour it back into it's container. Then, in running rinse water again for at least 5 minutes. Gently take the film off the reel and place it into a container (reserved for this purpose only - an old Tupperware works) filled with distilled/demineralized water and 2 to 3 drops of Photo-Flo 200. Leave it there for about 1 minute. Take the film out and hang to dry in your bathroom after you've let the hot shower run for a few minutes to raise the humidity and settle the dust.

 

Do not squeege the film between your fingers or anything else. You will eventually scratch a roll of film. There is no need to squeege the film using the technique described above, the water will run off. Freshly processed film emulsion is very tender and will easily be scratched or damaged if handled to roughly. Don't squeege!

 

IIRC, Orbit bath and Photo-Flo are similar products.

 

That roll you have that looks like the hood of your car. Wash it again using the instructions above and it should be fine.

 

The reason for the special container for the Photo-Flo is there is some evidence that shows it builds up on your reels and tank and creates a sticky residue. It can make loading the reel more difficult, and it may have an adverse influence on developer action.

[basscheffers]

I haven't done this for very long, but as I have NEVER had any spots on my negs, I must be doing something right... :)

 

I use platic tanks and reels. After I pour out the fix, I take the funnel off and fill the tank with water. I leave this running and occasionaly (once every 1-2 minutes) I "pump" the whole stack or reels on and down in the tank, to make sure fresh water gets all around. (if you just leave the tap running, fresh water won't get to the bottom)

 

After doing this for 10-15 minutes, I pour out all water and re-fill with fresh. (Straight from the tap, and this it London tap water!) then put in 2 drops of photoflow, pump a few times, leave to stand for 30 secs and drain.

 

Take the reals out, vigorously shake some more water out. Take film from reel dry with squeegy and then dry for 20 mins in drying cabinet.

 

That's it, perfect negs every time!

 

Sounds like you do this at home. By the looks of your website, you are in LA, is that right? I am sure that there must be a lab somewhere you can use. I go to London's http://www.photofusion.org/ and it's very nice to just work in a proffesionaly set up lab, all the tools and big wet areas you need. They supply the stop and fix, you just bring your dev. And if you are printing, they have this great machine for resin coated papers, after exposing on the Way Too Expensive To Ever Have In Your Home Darkroom enlarger, just feed it in and two and a half minutes later you have a perfectly developed and dry print.

 

Maybe you want to see if there's anything like it near you, good excuse to escape the house and have some time to yourself every once in a while! :)

[chris_waller]

My preferred wetting agent is Paterson Acuwet at 2 drops per 100ml water. If not available then I use Tetanal Mirasol. I mix the wetting agent in a jug in little water first, making sure it's thoroughly mixed. Then I add more water sufficient to cover the reel. I then dink the reel in the water+wetting agent with gentle agitation for about 30 seconds to 1 minute. Then I hang it up to dry. I NEVER squeegee but, even in a hard-water area I get perfectly clean negs.

[nige_buddy]

<I>(1) let the faucet run into the canister (how long?) </I><P>

 

depends on the type of tank you have. For a steel tank, I would suggest you look up the Ilford method of washing. Dripping water onto the top of a full tank isn't gauranteed to wash properly. For a Paterson style tank with hose that forces water to the bottom of the tank, I would wash for 15mins (just a trickle of water coming out of the tank)<P>

 

<I>(2) then put in a dash of Orbit Bath or Photo-Flo.</I><P>

 

nope. Empty the tank. If you want to be anal, open it up and lift out the reels (don't remove the film from them) and shake them sideways to get rid of as much water as possible.<P>

 

<I>(3) then dump out the water containing the Orbit Bath/Photo-Flo and pour distilled water into the cannister, and let it soak for __ minutes (how long?). </I><P>

 

Add distilled and your couple of drops of the Orbit stuff. Stir generously and let sit for a minute. With the right amount of wetting agent, you'll get a few bubbles at the initial mixing, but they'll have pretty well disappeared after the minute sitting. If you've heaps of bubbles try less orbit. I've been using the same Paterson plastic tank for 20+ years and it or the reels haven't suffered from any build up, so I personally do everyting in the tank.<P>

 

<I>(4) then remove the developed film from the spool, hang it up (I've got little weighted clips for the bottom), and spay with more distilled water. </I><P>

 

no spraying required. You'll just wash/replace the stuff you've just soaked it in. If you must do this you should use a similar mix to what you just bathed it in. A shower is usually a good place to hand film... generally pretty clean! If you've got room and the abilit, hanging the film sideways makes sense in that the water only has to run a short distance to get out of the image area, however so many people hang it vertically (me too) and get pristine results that I wouldn't worry about this. Just remove the reels and shake sideways to displace 95% of the water, remove the film and hang<P>

 

<I>(5) then squeegy the negatives with either my fingers, or with a Jobo squeegy. (I take it with the Jobo squeegy, I may get rid of more water spots, but risk scratching my negatives.) </I><P>

 

throw the squeegy away... not necessary and although you might not scratch the film always.. one day it will bite.... Just remove the reels<P>

 

<I>Am I getting this right? </I><P>

 

you getting there :)

[dan_lee8]

I use the Illford wash method - fill tank with water, invert 5 times, then pour our the water, refill and repeat with 10 inversions and finally 20 inversions. (Sometimes I do 40 inversions also if I have time). Then I refill tank with water and add some Paterson Acuwet, lather it up in the tank, hang the film up to dry (with clothespegs at the bottom) and avoid the temptation to squeegee (it often causes scratches).

[rick_jones5]

"In the final rinse, I'm putting in a little Orbit Bath ---". Marc, what you are seeing on your negatives is the dried residue of the Orbit Bath. Orbit Bath, Edwal 4 and 1, Heico Perma Wash and Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent are all hypo eliminators designed simply to reduce the washing time of negatives and prints (not necessary for RC prints). These products are used on negatives and prints as a bath before the final wash to save water and to effect a more thorough wash. If you doubt me, leave a few drops of Orbit Bath on a dark non-porous surface and let it dry. You'll be left with the same white powdery substance (sodium sulfite?) you see on your negatives. After washing negatives most of us use a final rinse prepared with a wetting agent to help eliminate water spots. WA reduces the surface tension of the water helping to prevent beads of standing water. Examples are Edwal LFN, Sprint End Run, Ilford Ilfotol and Kodak Photo-Flo. I highly recommend you read Henry Hornstein's "Black and White Photography". An evening with Henry will help eliminate many of the headaches you describe.

[User_502260]

It looks like you used Orbit Bath as a final rinse before hanging the negatives to dry. I used Orbit Bath in high school. It was a hypo clearing agent. It is used to help rinse out the fixer so you don't have to rinse the negatives in water for as long a period of time. My procedure is to pour out the fixer and then fill and empty the tank at least 10 times with tap water of the right temperature. Then I pour in Heico Perma Wash for the recommended time. After I pour out the Perma Wash I fill and empty the tank 25 times. I then pour in distilled water and add some Kodak Photo-Flo. Then I hang the negatives to dry. I do not use or recommend any kind of sponge or sgueegee. Anything that rubs against either side of the negatives is potentially harmful and can cause scratches.

 

If you run out of Photo-Flo or a similar wetting agent then you can let the negatives sit in distilled water for a minute or so before hanging them up. They won't dry as fast as negatives which were treated with a wetting agent but they should dry without streaks or spots.

[neal_wydra1]

Hi Marc,

 

Purchase a copy of the "Kodak Black & White Darkroom DATAGUIDE" and use the basic chemistry choices from Kodak or Ilford. Once you have the hang of it (it doesn't take long) you can experiment with more ease and understanding.

 

Neal Wydra

[__hank_boneroneo1]

Just to be clear (what a stitch) the wetting solution is the last liquid to leave the film's surface - rinsing it off obviates the effect. If you still have a problem, distilled water for a last rinse then the wetting agent will get rid of what's in what you call drinking water.

[ronald_moravec1]

Do not wipe or rub or squeege. Iy is only a mater of time til you pick up a piece of grit and scratch the entire film with it.

 

Rinsr down the hanging film with your wetting agent bath after the film is soaked is it. Pick it up with an ear syringe from the drugstore. Wash and clean b/4 use the first time and rinse out when finished. Stand it in the neck of a bottle to drain out.

 

I do not understand where all that residual garbage is coming from. Several rinses with distilled water should clean it up. I have never seen wash, tap, water that full of residue.

[spider_.]

"Spider- How can you tell if the image is under developed as opposed to under exposed?"

 

There is a range of variables to consider including film and light conditions, however, in

general under developed images tend to have lower contrast and under exposed images

tend to lack shadow detail. There is overlap between the two so it's not absolute.

[patrick_gainer]

Can you scan the negative as a positive so we can see what the neg itself looks like? It seems to have dark areas judging by the light areas in the print.

[nige_buddy]

hehe that shows you what assumptions are good for.. to make an arse out of you and me!

 

Most of us assumed Orbit was a wetting agent, if seems to be hypo clear, plus a multitude of other things to boot. Either way, what I recommended ain't right!

 

To use the orbit you should mix it up to the manufacturers recommended dilution, then after the fix step give the film a quick rinse, then let it sit in the orbit solution for 5mins, then wash the film in water, then rinse in distilled with some wetting agent (Photoflo, etc)... then hang up to dry!

[joe_k.]

You asked about underdevelopment vs. underexposure -- well, I'm about to embark on my own development-time misadventure, and I've found <A HREF="http://www.ephotozine.com/techniques/viewtechnique.cfm?recid=119">this handy chart</A>.<BR><BR>Those positives assume something resembling consistent print exposure, as you'd see on a contact sheet, or a scanner if the driver doesn't automatically compensate to confuse you.<BR><BR>Underexposure/overdevelopment shows an example of 'push,' and overexposure/underdevelopment demonstrates 'pull' -- necessary evils, effects, or things to avoid, depending who you talk to and what you want to do with your film.

[jim_appleyard]

Gelatin is very soft when wet. I used a squeegee once and it ruined the film; ripped the emulsion right off it. Never again! I don't even use my fingers; nothing touches my film after processing. Why take the chance? Use a good quality rinse as stated above and just let it air dry hanging on clothes-pins. Using a squeegee or your fingers doesn't make it dry much, if any, faster.