Goin' for the Grain

[spanky]

Hi Everyone. Like most of us here, I always tried for prints that

were as sharp and with as little grain as possible. For fun, I've

decided to go full tilt into grain. I have three films I'd like to

try out for this purpose: Ilford Delta 3200, Delta 400, and Ilford

HP5.

I'm shooting a 6x7 negative, so depending on how well I expose, I may

want to enlarge up to 16x20 on either fiber or RC I haven't decided.

I understand the general idea behind pushing the 400 films by a stop

or two (or three although that might be pushing too far from what I

recently read) and increasing the development time. So what results

can I expect from these three films? I imagine the 3200 would be the

easiest to work with. I've never actually pushed or pulled film

before. Is their a simple chart that breaks down the increased

development based on how many stops faster one rates the film? I read

that development is increased 30% per stop. Since I'm so math

challanged, I'd rather just have a chart to keep in my binder that I

can refer to.

Other considerations: I'm currently using HC110 B for developer. I

know there are developers out there that are made specific for

push/pull processing, but I'd hate to purchase such a developer only

to throw most of it out if I don't care much for my attempts and the

grainy look. Really, I'd like to find one developer that pretty much

covers everything. I know I'm asking the impossible.

Weather wise, being summer and all, a lot of these shots will have to

be taken very early or very late in the day to avoid the bright LA

sun. The Delta 3200 I purchased to take pictures inside a bar during

a pool tournament and I figured the 3200 would allow me to hand hold

my RZ in such dim light.

[everitt]

If you want to have very grainy negs... it won't be easy with 6x7! Unless you use a small portion of the neg for your print. Delta 3200 souped in HC-110 dil B on a 6x7 will not look uber-grainy unless you go much larger than 16x20. If grain is what you want, try souping Delta 3200 in Rodinal 1:25. Try exposing at 6400 or even higher...

 

This page has all sorts of dev times for most B&W films.. For Delta 3200, there is a plethora of dev times for different developers at different speeds... I hope this helps!

[everitt]

Here's the link I meant to post....

 

http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.html

[huw_finney]

Try print developer.

[__stu_evans]

Further out is reticulation. Tri-x with a strong cold stop bath.

[janko_belaj]

Marc, experiment with Rodinal at 1+25 and push your film by, at least, 2 f stops.. like ISO

400 to ISO 1600. Try with warmer developer, plus longer developing, of course.<br>

Rodinal usually gives grainer negatives in mid-tones, pushing film will produce even

stronger grain. btw, I have found that Rodinal (unlike some positive developers which you

can also use) won't produce so high contrast for you to lose high and low end details, and

will produce nicely shaped grain.<br>

Btw, best results in such experiments I have got with pushing efke 100 to ISO 800. As I'm

now on vacation, I can not tell you what time and temperature I have used... I'll be back in

8 days, so if that won't be long, I can post you some data and maybe even a scan for you,

if you are interested.<br>

<br>

Janko<br>

[lex_jenkins]

In this case I'll contradict my usual position and recommend Ilfosol-S.

 

While Ilfosol-S is a very good developer for slow speed, fine grain films. It gives a little more bite than Rodinal and with faster films a more salt-and-pepper look to the grain. It has two problems when used with faster films: Excessive grain; Risk of fogging when used for push processing.

 

However for your purposes it may be just the ticket. Try it on the Delta 400 and HP5+ exposed at or near their nominal speeds - up to EI 800 is okay, tho'.

 

With Delta 3200 I'd suggest rating it at EI 1600 for development in Ilfosol-S. It's not a good speed developer (1600 is already the outside margin for Delta 3200 anyway) and since Delta 3200 usually benefits from extended development to boost contrast, it's better with this contrast to start out more conservatively.

 

Other than this, the usual recommendations include Rodinal. Personally, I don't find Rodinal to produce any more grain than HC-110 in normally exposed and developed negatives. So if you're already happy with HC-110, might as well keep using it. To get more grain you might try a little underexposure/overdevelopment ("pushing") - HC-110 is actually a pretty good push developer. My pushes are usually 25%-50% longer than for normal development.

 

You might also experiment with Dilution H and compare results to Dilution B.

 

Another good trick for enhancing grain while controlling contrast is to stand develop in a very dilute solution of Rodinal. Typically I'll process Tri-X (exposed normally) in a 1:200 solution of Rodinal, agitating only once for the first 30-60 seconds, then not again for two hours - I just let the tank sit. This works well for film exposed under very contrasty lighting, such as under a full moon or street lighting. And it's hassle free. Minor variations in temperature from the usual 68F can be safely ignored; and the time doesn't have to be carefully observed - two hours, more or less, is fine. The negatives look like typical negatives developed in Rodinal but are considerably grainier.

 

I don't know whether that stand development technique would work with HC-110. I've heard reports of other photographers (Ansel Adams?) using extremely dilute solutions of HC-110 with longer development times and minimal agitation, but I don't recall the details. I don't think he was after excessive grain, however, but more of a compensating effect.

 

As someone else has suggested, another trick is to compose loosely and enlarge just a small portion of the frame. But you could accomplish this just as easily, if not more so, using 35mm gear.

[johnmarkpainter]

Rodinal with Delta 3200 will give you crazy grain. Shooting at 1600 will give you a better

image to go with it....

 

jmp

[spanky]

Thanks for the great advice guys. I see there are many, many ways to go with achieving the grainy look. I am running kind of low on HC110 syrup, so maybe my next general purpose developer will be Rodinal. This seems to be a very popular developer. I presume one shot dilutions can be made, right? Hopefully, Agfa will continue to make this despite that they seem to be moving out of the film side of their business.

Cheers,

Marc

[everitt]

Yes, Rodinal is normally used as a one shot developer (1:25, 1:50, 1:100 etc.). However, I should caution you that while some films can be souped beautifully in Rodinal (Agfapan APX 100, Tri-X etc...), other films souped in Rodinal leave much to be desired (especially HP5). If I were you, I'd keep a bottle of HC-110 around as well. Both these developers have a very long shelf life, making it more worthwhile to use both. These are the only 2 developers I use right now (Rodinal for APX 100, Tri-X, and FP4, HC-110 for HP5, HIE, FP4 and Delta 3200), and it works great.

[roman_sonnleitner1]

Contrary to general consensus, I would advise against pushing films to get grain - with pushed films, you will get contrasty negs with less detail in hihlights and shadows, and will have to use low contrast grades when printing those negs; I would rather go for really flat, but dense negs (maybe by pulling the film by about 2 stops, but developing normally), so that you have to use higher paper grades - grade 4 or 5 really enhances grain at the printing stage; also, use an inherently grainy film (I'd go for Fortepan 400, but Delta 3200 wil be fine); Rodinal used at higher temperatures than 20?C/68?C gives really coarse grain.

[glenn_thoreson]

HP-5 in Ilfosol S 1:9. Shake it like you're making a martini, you'll have some grain.