Homeland Security and Railroad Photography

[akajohndoe]

So digital would be legal under that proposition, eh?

[lex_jenkins]

Define "unusual" or "strange", Brad. While you're at it, put "questioning" into context.

 

To butcher the cliche, you could ask the same question of an infinite number of monkeys, given an infinite amount of time to reach an infinite number of conclusions and you'd still have the same thing: this is all monkey business. Politicians, military and law enforcement officials are reacting to perceived threats with all the sense of cage-crazed chimps throwing turds at visitors to the zoo.

 

Unfortunately, while much of this seems like purposeless busy-work, some of it is also part of an ongoing, concerted effort to further degrade the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Yet far too many Americans fail to see the erosion under the foundation that will eventually lead to the collapse of the entire structure. Frankly I think most Americans would willingly give up their rights as long as they get to keep their SUVs, go to TGIF's or Chili's once a week and continue to delude themselves into believing they own their homes that can be taken away in a flash by the bank or taxing authority.

 

As long as enough people think "It doesn't affect me, I don't photograph trains" or "So what if I can't photograph my family standing on a street corner because there's a government building half a mile down the street, it doesn't affect me, I'll just go to Disneyworld" then the government can proceed inexorably toward fascism.

 

Is it only a coincidence that the fasces symbol figures so prominently in the U.S., including the Senate, House of Representatives and even the reverse of the old Mercury head dime - just in case we needed a reminder of the inevitable direction in which the country would go - or is it a cynical display of humor from the nation's founders? The fasces are usually defined as a symbol of freedom and authority. An alternative view states: "As a symbol of state authority, the facses offers a choice: 'by the rod or by the ax'. The condemned was either beaten to death with the rods or else allowed the mercy of the ax." See: http://www.limunltd.com/numismatica/articles/mercury-dime.html

 

Should we also wink at the secret court proceedings that imprison those who have been deprived of their Constitutional rights (or, at least, the courtesy of the American spirit of generosity), where they are secretely abused and beaten (unless some idiot happens to take photographs of his/her buddies engaged in the act)?

 

I think I would be less offended if they would simply admit that they're building the Second Coming of the Roman Empire. Be honest about it. This is all about conquest, domination of nations deemed to be threatening and control of our ever-expanding borders.

 

But to answer your question more directly, yes, Brad, we must challenge the notion that ill-defined concepts such as "unusual behavior" warrants questioning or subsequent detention without specific cause. That's the price of liberty - eternal, grinding, tedious, often unrewarded vigilance. Better we should do it, as individuals, ordinary citizens, than to sacrifice our rights for the illusion of protection.

[Brad_]

Lex: ZZZZzzzzz... I don't have time to respond to your silly rant. Rather, I'll acknowledge

you're right - the police shouldn't be allowed to question anybody about any activity not

understood. Someone's taking pictures of train switches, ventilation inlets, trestle piers,

power stations, whatever - no problem, we shouldn't question any activity - after all we

have rights. The police should suppress their curiosity... It's all OK. Hey, the photographs

of NYC tunnels and infrastructure CNN reporters found in Afghanistan - most likely tourist

pix from Afghanis visiting NYC - they apparently couldn't find similar postcards to

memorialize their visit.

 

Tell you what, feel free to go on with your life feeling repressed and down-trodden - that's

perfectly fine with me!

[chris_waller]

All bureaucracies reproduce and spread like amoeba. Officialdom can always find new things to do - mainly things that don't need doing. While they are hassling perfectly innocent railway enthusiasts, somebody with a large bomb will slip through and let it off somewhere - and officialdom will then say more officials are required to ban more things.

 

The best way to break any bureaucracy is to use it. Deluge the railway companies with written requests for permanent-way passes and permission to photograph. Let's have an entire army of O. Winston Links swarming around with Deardoff 14x11s, miles of cable and umpteen megawatts of bulb flash lighting up the night sky.

[._._z]

<i><blockquote> you could ask the same question of an infinite number of monkeys,

given an infinite amount of time to reach an infinite number of conclusions and you'd still

have the same thing </blockquote> </i><p>

 

Not really. If you're asking an infinite number of monkeys, eventually natural selection will

yield a monkey who will comprehend and be able to respond. I'd explain it in more detail,

but it might take an eternity for you to understand. ;-)

[lex_jenkins]

So, how do we get that particular monkey elected? And how do we keep Ruff Nadir from diluting the monkey vote?

[roger krueger]

There's a big difference between having to answer a few questions--which I don't mind,

and have had to deal with on several occasions--and being hauled off for interrogation,

which seems to have happened in a few very isolated incidients.

 

Lex: A free America as envisioned by our founding fathers hasn't existed for an immensely

long time. It just keeps getting a little worse each generation. Fabian Fascism instead of

Fabian Socialism. This democracy we shove down the throat of anyone and everyone is a

sham--democracy without draconian campaign contribution limits is mere sufficiently-

disguised-plutocracy. And who are the world's most skilled plutocrats? American multi-

nationals.

[Brad_]

Howard Stern is coming out strongly endorsing Kerry and blasting Bush. That could be a

big factor with 10 million listeners - a third of which are independent. It's worked before...

[lex_jenkins]

True enough, Roger. Degradation of Jefferson's vision began the moment John Adams became president and the Federalist view began to dominate.

 

Admittedly, the philosophy of Jefferson and his supporters was probably too optimistic and romanticized. Survival of that concept of government depends on the good faith of all, equal parts respect for individuals by those in authority and a deep sense of responsibility on the part of individuals for the nation. Back then, by the time citizens of the new United States grasped the concept that they were citizens of a United States the decline had already begun.

 

There are probably some interesting observations that could be made regarding the synergy between federalism and the beginning of the great railroads in light of the sudden paranoia among the authorities that railroad photography may be yet another sign of terrorism.

 

But I'm too tired and as Brad said, ZZZZzzzzz...

[scott_strohmeier]

I have first hand experience with this. I was teaching a young lady some basics of photography, and we went to a location I have used in the past, that overlooks both train tracks and several refineries. We were accused of being a terrorist trying to "blow up the refinery or railroad". We had 4 bags of camera gear with us, including a Hassy on large studio sized tripod. The secutiry guard wanted us to wait for the cops to get there, but told us to leave when another photographer stopped and started to set up in the same area. He had seen us and figured that it was a great view to shoot from (it is). We were not trespassing, but on open space park grounds. The stupidest thing was he let us move farther away and take pictures becuase then the pictures wouldn't be useable by terrorists.

[craig_gillette]

Now I may be wrong, but I have to assume that Howard Stern didn't run around endorsing Bush last time. Don't get your hopes up.

 

As to railroad photography? Nobody seemed too interested in us the other night. Nor did anyone swoop out of the night to grab this guy. Of course he didn't have a camera. I don't think his hearing aid was working either. He wasn't responsive to our yelling and waving or the horn, just waiting for the train expected from the other way.

[Brad_]

<I>Now I may be wrong, but I have to assume that Howard Stern didn't run around

endorsing Bush last time. Don't get your hopes up.</I><P>

 

No, but he did endorse Christy Todd Whitman years back - she was on his show a few

times, and seems like he plugged her (awful pun) every day. And the rest was history...

Ditto with Pataki.<P>

 

His support will help big-time in this election as well.