Really Dense Negs with FP4

[scott_mcloughlin]

I just souped up my first tests with FP4 in HC-110 (B). Film shot at

E.I. 125. The negs turned out really, really dense.

 

I used the recommended 9 minutes. Agitated for first 30 seconds and

then one slowish inversion every minute thereafter. Dumped around 8:50

to account for "pour time" and so forth.

 

Searching the archives, it seems other folks got good results with

E.I. 125 and 9 minutes, but is this dev. time considered too long

(like some of Kodak's recommended times)?

 

Or does FP4 just tend to produce really dense negatives? I'm scanning,

and my scanner really doesn't like really dense negatives. I've had

really pleasing results with HC-110 and Tri-X, Neopan 400 and TMAX 100.

 

Appreciate any help - I'm still holding high hopes for FP4.

 

Scott

[mark_l]

Hi Scott,

 

I had the exact same experience with FP4 and HC110B. What I eventually ended up doing was to use my old HC110(e) dilution that I had been using with Plus-X, and used a 5 minute interval, inversion agitation for 10-15 seconds and then I just let it sit there. Water temperature is important, but honestly...I don't really measure it. Its probably not the absolutely correct way, but I just leave my water at room temp, and adjusted my times down accordingly.

 

I got really good results, less dense negatives, prints and scans beautifully. You can see some of the FP4+ shots in the "Nicole in Window Light" folder in my directory. Some are Xp2 Super which is a C41 b/w film with very nice skin tones. Hope this helps!

[scott_mcloughlin]

Regarding temp, I'm souping it at 68F. Since the kitchen is a little warm here in the summer (about 80F), I mix water and syrup and then stick it in the fridge until the mix is 68F. I give the tank/film a brief 15 sec rinse in water to cool that down before I put the developer in.

 

Mark, just to clarify your use of dilution E, do you agitate at the beginning, wait 5 minutes, agitate just once again for 15 seconds and then wait out the remainder of 9 minutes?

 

Scott

[mark_l]

I fill up with 235ml of distilled water (room temp, varies with seasons), and 5 ml of HC110 concentrate. I stir and pour it in. Agitate via inversion for first 15 seconds, and then let it sit for 5 minutes. Pour it out, pour in fixer for 5 minutes. Wash and rinse with Photo-flo. Works well for me, clean nice negatives.

[test11664875106]

Scott, you say your kitchen is warm, this might be the reason of overdevelopment. Have you measured temperature at the end of the development? My environment now around +25C and I was shocked to see temperature rising almost 1C (that's could be equivalent of 1 extra minute of dev) at the end of 10 minute development even if I put the tank in 20C water bath. So for now I use waterbath of 18-19C in order to prevent temperature rise.

 

While I'm not familiar with HC110, I had to reduce recommended time for FP4 in Perceptol about 10% to get good prints with MG#2 filter.

[mskovacs]

HC-110 is a fairly active developer. I think the best results are achieved with only a minimum of agitation. Still, I wouldn't expect "really, really dense" just on account of the agitation you report. Are you certain that your exposures were accurate?

[alessandro serrao]

Dunno why Hc110 continues to be used when there are better film developer on the market.

Recall that Hc110 was formulated for the newspaper darkroom, where it was absolutely necessary to develop batches of films in 5-6 minutes.

Today that's not the case anymore.

My advice: use Xtol or other less active developers so you have more margin of error in timing.

[__jon__]

>Mike Kovacs , jun 22, 2004; 03:58 p.m.

 

>HC-110 is a fairly active developer. I think the best results are achieved with only a minimum of agitation.

 

I use HC110 with great results in a rotary with constant agitation. Sounds like a time/temp issue. HC110 is incredibly flexible--you just have to test a bit to get it where you want.

 

FYI:

 

http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/index.html

[scott_mcloughlin]

Thanks for the responses so far. My inquiry was predicated on finding really divergent soup times for the FP4+ HC-110(B) 68F combination out on the web. I Googled for hours and found many recommendations for 4.5, 5 and 6 minute development times in addition to Ilford's own recommended 9 minutes. Wow! That's a really big range.

 

Regarding exposure, many of the shots were taken at an empty beach on a rainy, completely overcast day. These are very low contrast shots taken with an FM3a center weighted meter. Of course, I now wish I had taken a test roll with different settings and souped that first. Ah well.

 

Thankfully there were other shots on the two rolls, including some sun/shade shots and what not. I will definitely now shoot some test rolls of shots in open shade using both the camera's and an incident meter and do further explorations with these.

 

I'm a beginner and have used D76 and TMAX Developer before trying HC-110. I gave HC-110 a whirl after negative experiences (blown hightlights) with TMAX 100 shots in bright sunlight. Folks here on PN suggested I give HC-110 a try and it worked like a charm.

 

Subsequently, souping E.I. 400 Tri-X and Neopan 400 at 4.5 minutes with one inversion per-minute - another recommendation from PN folks - yielded smooth, finer grain, somewhat thinner negatives that my scanner (and I) also like quite alot.

 

So HC-110 is working for me, and I can predict the soup strength better than I can with D76. I'm fairly conscientious, but I have had the problem of D76 "speeding up" while stored in partially filled 1 liter bottles for a few weeks - like others here.

 

But as I said, I'm a beginner and in no position to defend HC-110. I am eager to give Rodinal and FP4+ a whirl. This seems like a popular combination. I still use D76 with EI 250 Tri-X because the HC-110 (B) times would be crazily short. I may, though, soon seek an HC-110 solution here with a different dilution.

 

Temperature creep might indeed be a problem with a nine minute development time and an active developer like HC-110. My other film soup times were indeed much shorter.

 

The described dil. E stand development sounds intriguing. Maybe I'll dial in 74F (???) and give it a whirl. I'll keep trying.

 

Scott

[oskar_ojala]

Given the temperature is reasonable close to 68F, your times should be quite good, so an exposure error might be the reason. However, consider altering development based on scene contrast, as this will give the best results (I assume you know enough already to know what I'm talking about.)

 

Rodinal is a good choice with FP4+ (even better with APX100), but I suggest spending time to perfecting your technique with one or very few combinations, rather than going about trying many developers; if you're a beginner, trying many developers will usually lead to you mastering no combination.