The ultimate 4x5 wood field camera?

[gone nomad]

Since we have a beginners question below, I thought I'd ask what

people perceive to be the ultimate 4x5 wood field camera. Here is my

criteria as I go shopping again. I'm planning on not having to

purchase another camera.

 

1. Wood - No I'm not interested in a monorail or a metal camera.

2. Able to use a 450mm non telephoto

3. Able to use a 75mm lens preferably withou a recessed lens board.

Bag bellows is ok.

4. Uses linhof lens boards is preferred. However an adapter will

suffice.

5. Has built in spirit levels.

6. I still have a 3.3lb wista for backpacking. (had a toho didn't

care for it) This will be my general purpose camera. Weight isn't

much of an issue.

7. Budget is 2500-3000 dollars. Thus, ebony, wisner, etc... are all

in the price range.

 

I intend for this to be a camera to keep for quite a while. I've

played with an ebony sv45ti, Wisner Tech Field, and Wisner Pocket

expedition. Any reports out there from people who use these

regularly? What would you change?

 

Thank you for your time,

 

Dr Phil

[Troll]

One man's "ultimate" is another man's "piece of shit." You knew that there was no possible definitive answer to this question when you asked it. (Yes it's raining today and I'm grumpy as hell!)

[art_haykin]

What is a "450mm non telephoto" lens for a 4x5 camera?

[edward_kimball]

This is based on looking at pictures of the camera and a table of specs. I would say that the Gandolfi Variant is my Ultimate Wooden Field Camera. The longest lens you can use is a 480mm and the shortest is 47mm (with bag bellows). At 1097 GBP it is pushing the upper limit on your budget. It weighs in at 3.4 kg.

[tim_atherton9]

"What is a "450mm non telephoto" lens for a 4x5 camera"

 

Presumably a lens that's a "straight" 450mm lense not a telephoto design. i.e. one that actually requires around 450mm of extension

 

While handy, the telephoto designs which require less extension for their focal length are considered by many to show a reduction in image quality due to the optical compromises that need to be made.

 

or something like that....

[gone nomad]

Art, I have a 450mm f/12.5 Fujinon C lens that I really like. It's a non telephoto lens which means that it needs about 450mm of bellows. In contrast, a telephoto designed lens would require alot less bellows. For example, the Fuji 400mm Telephoto designed lens only requires 270mm of bellows. However, it weighs more than twice the weight of the fujinon 450C. Furthermore, the 450C is optically superior.

[gone nomad]

Edward,

 

I've never handled a gandolfi. However, I once heard that some parts are made with MDF. Isn't this a type of particle board? For a $3000 camera I want some really choice piece of wood. This is one of my qualms with the wisner pocket expedition. It's a bit flimsy and feels like it is made of balsa wood. The tech field did feel a lot more sturdy. However, many report that the tech field has problems with lenses under 110mm. I now wish that I had tried my wide angle lenses on the camera. Is the 75mm and 90mm useable with a bag bellows?

[bob haight]

There are older inexpensive models on Ebay all the time that probalby for a few dollars meet or exceed your needs. Spirit levels can be added.

[w_t1]

"MDF is a type of hardboard, which is made from wood fibres glued under heat and pressure." http://www.design-technology.org/mdf.htm

 

i have several sheets of it in my garage, it's relatively cheap stuff compared to hardwood plywood, etc. It's great for making jigs and even cabinets. Don't get it wet, not for exterior use. I'd be surprised if anyone is using in a view camera.

[tim_atherton9]

Dr Phil,

 

the MDF type wood the Gandolfi uses is the marine version and is the same type of stuff they use on Americas Cup boats - as well as being extrmely tough and relatively light(and having no problem with water) it's other big advantage is that is that it can be machined.

 

The Gandolfi is an extrmeley flexible, tough camera (though as it incorproates jsut about every movement you can think of + the long bellows, it's a lttle heavier than some)

 

I think Dick Phillips also uses some MDF in his cameras - the Phillips Compact II 8x10 is about the lightest, toughest, most rigid 8x10 being made.

 

This isn't the stuff your counter tops are made of. That ius the balck version - I think they still make it. I believe they also make the variant in Walnut now as well.

 

http://www.gandolficameras.com

 

Also here (click on John D photogorpahy I think)

 

http://www.johndesq.com

There are a number of Gandolfi reviews online.

[paul_owen]

Simple!! The Ebony 45SU!!

[skygzr]

It's a shame you won't consider aluminum...the Canham DLC is everything you want.

[brian_ellis3]

I believe the Canham KBC meets your requirements if you buy an adapter to use it with Linhof size boards (not sure about the spirit levels but these are easily added if necessary). The Ebony 45 SVTe and SVTi also meet them if you buy a bag bellows (the SU exceeds your maximum price), and several of the Wisner models probably do also if you buy a bag bellows. This is all from memory, there could be a requirement or two that they don't meet but you can check the specs for each against your requirements as well as I can.

 

As which is the "ultimate" wood 4x5, who knows. I sold the Ebony 45 SVTe to buy a Linhof Master Technika, which meets almost none of your requirements but is nevertheless my "ultimate" 4x5. Others have their own choices for an ultimate camera. All of us are right (for us).

[gone nomad]

I tried a DLC for a day and didn't car for it. It was like using something out of the terminator movie. It just didn't work for me.

 

I've thought about the canham wood camera. It's a bit bigger than the rest as it is really a 57 camera. However, that said, the wisner tech field is almost as large. I really like the Ebony SV45TI/E. It seems just about right. With the universal bellows I might even be able to get away without a bag bellows. So far, I haven't found any other cameras that can quite match it. Anyone here use one regularly? I only fondled one once.

[gary_mccutcheon]

Dr. Phil,

Here are some stats on the Wisners and Ebony cameras:

Wisner Technical Field; 580mm max bellows draw with tilts and use of pin and clip extension, 0mm min with bag bellows.

Wisner Pocket Expedition; 480mm max with tilts and rise and 0mm min. w/bag bellows.

 

Ebony SV45U2; Max bellows draw 590mm w/tilts and rise, 85mm min. w/o Bag bellows, 35mm with.

Ebony SV45U and SV45TI are the same with 530mm bellows draw w/tilts and rise and 85mm w/o bag bellows, 35mm with.

The only real advantage of the Ebony is the bubble levels for and aft. The Wisner has them only on the rear.

 

I own a Wisner TF and PE, both in 4x5. I have owned an Ebony SV45TI. At the time I bought the Ebony I already owned the Wisner TF. After owning both and compairing them side by side, I returned the Ebony. The Ebony was a beautiful camera, but I did not find it to be that much better than the Wisner for the difference in price. I learned a great deal from the experience. The type of metal used in making a wooden camera has as much to do with rigidity as with the wood. The Ebony had little flex (springiness) while the Wisner had a little more. The difference between titanium(Ebony)and brass(Wisner). And although the the front standard of the Wisner flexed a little more than the Ebony, I found the rear standards to be very rigid on both cameras. The Ebony had a slight wobble that the factory informed me through a dealer later was caused from uneven titanium plates. They resolved that problem. I learned from this comparison that flex in materials can give a misleading appearance in the stability of a camera. The Wisner camera is more than adequite for the job and I consider both of mine exceptional cameras. I have tried using the metal Canham and felt it had too much flex, especially on the rear. If I pressed with any force at all, the entire back would flex slightly which could mean a change in position from GG to film plane. Extreme care must be given not to press on the GG with a loup when using this style Canham. Neither of my Wisners do this.

 

If you have a chance to use either camera before you buy, do so. I don't think you can go wrong with either. The Ebony has three focus nobs that could take getting used to, but I understand the design concept. I did not have to worry about price and I picked the Wisner. If price is the biggest issue, the Wisner will service you well. Either will give you sharp photographs.

 

After understanding the flex issue (cameras only flex when they are forced to) I began to understand the Wisner Pocket Expedition. I was able to examine one closely and bought one. I was impressed with the geared front rise and fall, the rear top focus, and the geared front tilt. The camera is rigid, and although the front standard has more flex than my Ebony had, it does not wobble and tightens down solid. The back of the camera is equally as solid as the Ebony and is much lighter. The lightness of the PE may give it an unstable feel, but it is not. For aircraft aluminum and cherry wood the camera is simply a marvel. This particular camera would not take a roll back because of the oversize GG frame so I shipped it to the Wisner Co. and had it back in two weeks ready to take my roll film.

 

As for levels? It would be great to have levels on the front of the Wisners I own. I use a handheld level on the GG and the lensboard. I know they are exact. I photograph flat artwork at times and everything must be parallel.

 

Wisner has an adapter for Linhof boards, I have one and it works fine.

Hope this helps.

 

Gary

[brian_ellis3]

I owned the Ebony 45 SVTe and used it for about a year. I also briefly owned the Ebony 45 SVTi. I actually preferred the Ti for weight considerations (about 2 lbs lighter than the Te) but you said weight wasn't a major consideration. The Te and Ti didn't come with the universal bellows when I bought mine, which is why I said you'd need a bag bellows. You perhaps could special order one with the universal bellows or maybe Ebony has switched to including the universal bellows on these models since I bought mine a little over a year ago.

 

If you're wedded to a wood camera the Ebony is probably as good as it gets in terms of solidity (solidness?), smoothness of focusing and most other operations, everything fit tightly, everything locked down and stayed put when locked, etc. though it wasn't IMHO the equal of a good metal camera in any of these respects (which was why I sold mine).

[gone nomad]

Gary,

 

On your wisners, how short of a lens can you use with the standard bellows? I know that wisner claims the pocket expedition can compress to 58mm. How short can the bellows go and remain useable? What about on the tech field?

 

Dr. Phil

[cxc]

Given your specs, my first choice would be a Canham wood.

 

My second choice would be a Wisner Traditional. I'm not sold on the extra doodads of the other models.

 

Yes, the Gandolfi Variant comes either in all MDF or all wood.

 

IMHO the strength of the Ebony line is the non-folders like the 45S/U, which are not long enough for a 450mm.

[paul_hoyt]

Dr. Phil, I think considering all Ophra has done for you, you should just go for the Ebony version and not look back.

[william_whitaker1]

I have a Wisner 4x5 Pocket Expedition and can use a 75mm lens with limited movement using the standard bellows. I do have a bag bellows (it's available), but rarely use it.<P>

 

I will add that I had Wisner replace the front standard with their <I>"simple"</I> front standard. Now it's like a tech field front, but it retains the geared rise. For my purposes it works much better. I did not care for the complicated <I>"pocket"</I> front standard. It's a good camera and it works well with short lenses.<P>

 

Will

[peter_white2]

My Wisner 4x5 Traditional and standard bellows works very well with my 150 and would work well with a 135, which I don't have. With the 90mm SA it's virtually useless with the standard bellows. With the bag bellows, which takes about 30 seconds to swap, it's great with the 90 and with the 65. The bag bellows might work with a 135 for most landscapes, but is useless with the 150.

 

My only objection to the Traditional is the inability to isolate front tilts from front rise. The weight doesn't bother me. The geared front axis tilt of the Pocket Expedition is the one feature I'd like to add to the Traditional. Waddah ya say, Ron? ;-)

[peter_white2]

To clarify, it's front axis tilts that can't be isolated from front rise. Base tilts are isolated, but of course it's not important to isolate them, since base tilts are mostly used when first setting up the camera, not for fine tuning the image.

[gone nomad]

I am going to go look at a pocket expedition again today. Seems like it does everything I am currently asking for. Furthermore, it is even light enough to replace my wista for backpacking. I really wish I could take every camera out a use it for several hours. Wouldn't it be nice if someone ran a demo days for large format cameras? Oh well. I'm going to spend a few hours this afternoon with the pocket field and see what I think. William, how much did wisner charge to simplify the front standard? Or did you order the camra that way?

 

Thank you to everyone for providing your thoughts on wood field cameras.

 

Dr. Phil

[william_whitaker1]

Wisner and company were most accommodating. I simply removed the front standard and shipped it to them. They exchanged it for the cost of shipping in spite of the fact that I did not buy the camera new; I bought it on Ebay. <I>And</I> I got it back in two weeks. :-)<P>

 

It <I>is</I> a lightweight camera and good for a travelling LF kit. It's not perfect, but so far it's the best solution (for me) that I've found.

[george_stewart1]

I've had a Pocket Expedition for years now. It's a little fidgity and difficult to fold up sometimes but takes great pictures. Its my backpacking/hiking camera and use it when the 8x10 is too much.

 

I recently added a Really Right Stuff MPR-1b Arca-Swiss style plate. Its about six inches long and sickes out about two inches beyond the base of the camera. It allows me to position the nodal point of the lens over the pivot point of the head and make nice panoramas.

 

What a great setup. I hope to take it to the Himalayas at some time.