Best Manual Focus 50mm Nikkor?

[cliff_gallup]

I just replaced my deceased FE with an FE2 and am looking forward to

using some of my old Nikkor lenses. One that I don't love is the

50mm f/1.4 AI-S -- out-of-focus areas aren't all that nice, and the

pictures just don't have the snap that I expect from a good normal

lens. Are there noticeably better Nikkor options at this focal

length? I've read that the f/1.8 versions might be superior,

especially the AI (as opposed to AI-S), but have no way of judging.

I'd be curious about any user experiences. Also, how do the AF

versions stack up? Do they handle OK on a manual focus body, or is

focusing too loose and imprecise?

 

Incidentally, my new used FE-2 came from KEH in "bargain" condition

for $159 and is in shockingly good shape. A bargain indeed.

[Robert_Lai]

The bokeh on the f/1.4 and f/1.8 50mm Nikkors are pretty lousy. I have both, and they are about equal in sharpness from about f/2.8 onwards. Wide open, the f/1.4 may not be great in the corners, but the center should be acceptably sharp. There is definitely some light fall off wide open with both these lenses. Both have curvature of field, and some barrel distortion. The f/1.8 has less than the f/1.4, but it is noticable at minimum focus distance.<p>The older 50mm f/2 is said to have better bokeh. I cannot confirm this, since I don't own one.<p>The 45mm f/2.8 P is the reputed king of nice bokeh in this focal length, but it's a pricey little gem. Very sharp lens too, by all accounts.<p>If you really must have the f/1.4 speed, then consider the more expensive 35mm f/1.4 AI/AIS, which is very sweet wide open and closed down a couple of stops.

[ebogaerts]

I think it's the 50mm f/2. This would likely be the best choice in terms of balance between sharpness and excellent bokeh - it excells at both. Some will give a lot of recommendations for the 50mm f/1.8 AI, but I think the out-of-focus highlights are a little finer on the f/2.

 

I do think that the focusing on the AF f/1.8's are not really that great. They have a tendency to want to 'skip' as I focus. The aperture ring on the AF 50mm f/1.8 does exactly the same thing, to a greater degree. I would stick with a manual focus lens unless if you think you'll be aquiring an AF camera soon.

[walterh]

"and the pictures just don't have the snap that I expect from a good normal lens"

 

Cliff - there is always a chance of sample variation . It might be worth it to compare to another sample for possibly better sharpness. the mentioned 50mm 1.8AFD is about as sharp as it gets in that focal range. As for bokeh you have a problem in this focal length. Perhaps one of the micro nikkors has a good bokeh. I dont remember if there is one that has both good bokeh and beeing sharp at infinity- I think the 60mm AFD is ok here, perhaps someone can comment on this. As for the feel and focusing I agree that the AIS lenses are better, but -while beeing acceptable in this respect- the 50mmF1.8AFD does have a slight edge over the older lenses in sharpness.

[titrisol]

MicroNikkor 50mm would be what you need.

I love the out-of-focusness of the 1.4 though

[charles_miller]

I'm writing this just to help confirm the common wisdom. I have shot with the 50mm f1.8 AF, the 50mm f1.4 AF, the 50mm f1.4 AI, and the 50mm f1.8 AI. If you are planning on doing *serious* artsy work around this focal length, you could see a problem. Not one of the above 50mm lenses has smooth bokeh under all conditions. Sometimes you can see the classic problem of "doubled lines" or "busy background" even on 4" X 6" prints. However, just to be fair, one of the best shots I have ever made was taken with a Nikon 50mm f1.8 AF lens stopped down to f8, and the quality held very up well in a 11" X 14" print. It probably would have gone larger.

 

The 45mm f2.8 AIP lens is something else altogether and it has definite strengths over the 50mm models for certain types of subjects. Not everyone agrees that these advantages justify its price. And last but not least, if you are looking for the very best results at f1.4 or f1.2, you need the Nikon 58mm f1.2 Nocturnal model, or perhaps an expensive rangefinder lens.

[glenn_warren]

I use a pre AI 50mm f2 H.C.; plenty sharp, pleasing O.O.F. areas, great build

quality and all at a giveaway price.<div></div>

[Robert_Lai]

Glenn,<p>Have a look at that sharply rendered hexagon a little to the left of the tip of her ear. That's the type of thing that drives the bokeh fanciers crazy. We want smooth rounded highlights, not hexagons! Sharply rendered aperture openings are exactly why I dislike the bokeh of the 50mm f/1.4 and 1.8. Otherwise, they are superb lenses.<p>Macro lenses are even worse! They've eliminated the uncorrected spherical aberration that makes for good bokeh. Renowned bokeh lenses such as the 105mm f/2.5 retain a slight amount of uncorrected spherical aberration, so that wide open the lens will give a creamy roundness to out of focus highlights.

[Matthew Currie]

I really like my recently-acquired 50/f2 AI, which cost something like 35 bucks from KEH in "bargain" condition (wear nearly undetectable). I was looking for more 'snap' than my ancient and beat-up 1.4 delivers, and additionally wanted something that's decent on a bellows. Anyway, it's mighty sharp, and because of its recessed front element, flare resistant without a shade. That said, I am no bokeh fanatic, and I can't vouch for that aspect of it. I do know that you'd be hard pressed to find a snappier lens at that absurdly low price!

[cliff_gallup]

I like the sound of the f/2. Anyone want to buy my almost never used Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 AIS (in pristine condition) with caps?

[mskovacs]

If people find a solution to this problem I'd sure like to know. I shot a friend's wedding a couple of months back and my fun time at the reception shot with B&W available light using my AI 50/1.4 was the final straw: Polygons everywhere, jaggy bokeh. I've also used the 0.49m focusing 50/1.8, no better IMO. f/2 is livable, f/2.8 is just too slow.

 

I'm evaluating a Contax RF Sonnar 50/1.5 for its properties in this regard. At least it has a 12 bladed rounded diaphragm and qualifies as the tiniest and best constructed interchangeable speed lens I've seen. Of course one needs a rangefinder to couple it to which creates its own issues, positive and negative.

[mskovacs]

See below for an example from another wedding last November. Shot at f/2 or f/2.8. I think it has plenty of pop and sharpness but the hexagons drive me nuts.

 

<p><center><img src=http://www.photo.net/bboard/image?bboard_upload_id=17059584><p><i>Nikon F3HP, AI 50/1.5, HP5+@800, souped in DDX</i></center>

[cliff_gallup]

The Contax/CZ 50mm f/1.4 is in a different class, and along with its even cheaper f/1.7 cousin, tremendous value for money if you pick one up used.

[chris haake]

Robert, with all the wonderful elements of that first photo, you're bothered by that <i>one tiny little hexagon?</i> Wow.

[Robert_Lai]

Chris,<p>He asked me about the OOF areas, so I responded as such.<p> Without the hexagon, (even with), it's a lovely portrait. But, then I'd be commenting on the IN FOCUS area.

[elliot]

If you want a nikon 50mm lens, and you want to obsess over the out of focus areas and the shape they are, your best choice will be the 50mm f1.2, which has 9 aperture blades. However, this might be too expensive for you, and heavier than it needs to be if you don't actually need the extra speed.

[scott_warn]

I have the 45mm f2.8 GN Nikkor and the bokeh of this lens is fantastic. Mine has a tiny bit of internal haze due to it's age so it is not quite as sharp as it once was, the contrast is off a bit, and it focuses backwards. Despite all of these faults I still shoot with the lens and print on #3 paper instead of #2. It is also why the 45mm P will be my next lens purchase. Mounted on an FE2 the 45mm f2.8 P will give you fantastic images and it's also comapct enough that the camera will fit into a large pocket. The only negative is that the tiny focus and aperture rings will take some getting used to.

 

As for the price, I have been so much reading, and looking, at the higher end Nikkors, such as the 70-200 VR, that 300 dollars is starting to seem cheap. It's not cheap, but I do think that it is worth the price.

[elliot]

<a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005cjh" target="_blank">link about counting aperture blades in bokeh</a>

[chris haake]

Robert, my point was that is the only element of the OOF area that is objectionable; 99% of the OOF background is very smooth and pleasing. So judging a picture (or lens, for that matter) by about 1% of its total area is being a bit obsessive.

[mskovacs]

Chris I think Robert's point was that the lens still renders OoF highlights as polygons. If you had half a dozen potlights in that shot it wouldn't look any better than the 50/1.4 from a bokeh perspective.

[david_h._hartman]

Bokeh is not about the shape of the lens iris and once again

people are attributing magic properties to the 50/2.0 Nikkor-H.C

and AI. If you are worried about aperture shape the 50/2.0(s) have

six blades and give hexagons and really cool six point

diffraction stars.<br>

<br>

<a

href="http://www.nikon.co.jp/main/eng/society/nikkor/n02_e.htm"

target="_new"><u>Tale Two : <br>

AI Nikkor 50mm f/2 <br>

by OSHITA, Kouichi</u></a><br>

<br>

<a

href="http://www.nikon.co.jp/main/eng/society/nikkor/index.htm"

target="_new"><u>"Nikkor -- The Thousand and One Nights"</u></a><br>

<br>

Now dont say I said the 50/2.0 is a dog or for that matter

a god. I didnt! Maybe reading the article?<br>

<br>

Notice this warning:<em> However, when fully open an out-of-focus

background can become harsh or appear doubled, so handling the

background requires care. --Kouichi Oshita<br>

</em><br>

Have fun!

[steve_chan5]

Actually, as I understand it, bokeh is about both the shape of the iris, and the distribution of light across the disc of the unfocused circle. If the light is more heavily distributed at the edges of the blur circle, it will make the iris shape very prominent, while if the light is concentrated in the center of the circle, the shape of the edges are not really apparent.

 

In any case, I have the 50/F2 and from what I've seen, it's bokeh isn't as ugly as the 50/1.4, and I think better than the 50/1.8 AIS pancake and AF nikkors. But it still has a 6 bladed aperture, and there is a slight tendency for the edges of the blur circle to be a highlighted. The photographer of the family has taken the D100 with her, otherwise I'd take a few test shows and post them, as I seem to have accumulated a bunch of the 50's.

 

I've never tested one myself, but I read somewhere that the AIS 50/1.2 has the best looking bokeh of the Nikkor normal lenses. Of course, it is also big and expensive, and maybe not so good after F8.

 

The Cosina 40mm F2 is supposed to have something like ten bizillion aperture blades, to make a nice round iris. It may be interesting to see how that Cosina Topcor 58/1.4 does - Kobayashi doesn't seem to cheap out on the aperture blades.

[kelly_flanigan1]

A lens can have an infinite number of aperture blades; and be like a waterhouse stop; and still have goofy & distracting out of focus artifacts. Movie camera lenses usually have alot of blades; they are used for focus pulls; were out of focus artifacts compete with actors. Here a lens with good out of focus quality is used; with a minumum of artifacts; batwings; iris ghosts; goofy stuff. Even high speed movie camera lenses usually have alot of aperture blades; my Wollensak Fastax 254mm F4.5 has 21 blades. Lenses like this are measured for focal length; for each serial number; and it is engraved on the barrel. Mine is a 9.969"; 253.2mm lens. This is usefull for scaling of frames; for machine motion; explosions; coo enginnering stuff.

[lex_jenkins]

50/2 AI Nikkor. It's the one that came with my F3HP. Altho' I'm tempted by the Noct for shooting in truly dim lighting I'm satisfied enough with the humble 50/2 that I'm not tempted by lesser f/1.8 or f/1.4 siblings.

 

Excellent for close ups too. You might not even feel the need for something like a 55/3.5 Micro-Nikkor.

[alan_wilder1]

You might want to look into the new 58/1.4 Topcor made by Cosina available in the Nikon AI mount. It is sold by Stephen Gandy @ Cameraquest. I don't know much about it's bokeh but I'm sure Stephen can fill you in. Cosina seems to be doing quite well with their Leica mount lenses in terms of optics, fit and finish as I own two myself. Their SLR lenses look quite nice especially the ones designed to look like the old Zeiss Contarex line but in Nikon AI mounts. Since Rich Pinto @ Photo Village is also a Cosina dealer, he may also have some insight on these lenses.