evan_dong1 Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 I am planing on buying either one of the two mentioned 90mm lens for my Leicaflex SL. Eventually I will also buy a R6.2 at a later time. Of these two lenses, which one is the better in regards to optical performance? What are the price range for them used and should start with the 2 Cam or 3 Cam? Can the 3 cam be used on the later bodies form R4 and up? Thanks, Evan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen_persky Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 Hello, The short answer is that the new 90mm Summicron APO ASPH is one of the sharpest lenses Leica has made. The portait quality is just amazing and some people say that it is too sharp. Sorry, I do not know much about Cam compatability. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronald_moravec1 Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 There were two 90 elmarits, one from 1965 and one from about 1985. Also were two 90 summicrons, one was pretty old and recently replaced with the new 90 apo. The first 90 2.8 was a very nice lens and it excelled in close up range, giving up some performance at 2.8. The second lost some close up sharpness but gained at 2.8. These differences are small. There new summicron apo is very sharp, perhaps too sharp for portraits. The first version ws softer wide open and 2.8, but the differences are smaller at smaller stops. This lens has a certain character that is wonderful for portraits. I loaned out my old 90 2.8 semipermanently and kept the 90 f2 old style. I have a 100 2.8 if I need super sharp or close up ability. The new apo`s will pick up skin texture and details much more so than any older lens. Try and rent or borrow so you may see for yourself. Make no mistake, ANY of these are better than the competition. If we knew your intended subjects, we could be of more help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maestro logos Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 Hi Evan. I started a similar thread just yesterday and there have been many great responses there. Maybe you want to check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronald_moravec1 Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 Please read my answer to Leica Photo Quality 6-12-4. My experience is way toward the last answer. This will answer your questions concerning optical quality. If your pictures go to Walmart the difference will not be visable, but if you have a home darkroom and know the process or use a pro lab, you`ll be amazed. It`s also a tribute to Leica qualty that Leica Solmes will still repair screw mount bodies made in 1930, as do independents. People have them fixed because they love them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evan_dong1 Posted June 12, 2004 Author Share Posted June 12, 2004 Wow! That was fast for some answers! My intended photographic use is mainly for landscape, people shots (3/4 to full length) and some occasional portraits. I had been offered an original 90mm Elmarit that was converted to 3 cam (filter size is Series 7) and the 90mm Summicron is also a 3 cam lens that used 55mm filters. I would like to have sharpness as my first criteria, followed by overall optical performance throughout the aperature range. I am trying to get the most bang for my bucks, as I plant to buy either a 19mm or the 21mm and the 35mm Summicron. I plan to use just these three lens ranges: 19 or 21 - 35 - 90mm. I hope that this will be enough information to help me with my choices. Again, I am buying used lenses here. Evan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug herr Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 Evan, if sharpness is your primary goal I'd get the Elmarit, either version depending on whether you favor close-range sharpness (first version) or f/2.8 sharpness (late version). I've been using the 90mm Summicron-R for over 20 years. At f/2 it's pleasingly sharp but not what I'd call critically sharp. At smaller apertures its imaging rivals the Elmarit-R. AFAIK the 90mm APO-ASPH-Summicron-R can't be retrofitted to fit the SL :-( <P> 3-cam lenses are the most versatile of all R lenses. Except for mirror clearance with some lenses and pre-SL2 bodies, they'll work perfectly on any Leica reflex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maestro logos Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 Hi Douglas, >> At smaller apertures its imaging rivals the Elmarit-R. << Do you mean just sharpness or the overall quality/character of image? I started another thread on 90mm Elmarit vs. Summicron yesterday: http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=008W2l While I've concluded the Summircon is perhaps a better lens for portraiture (which is my intended application), I'm still debating over whether to get the Summicron (for its portrait magic) or the Elmarit (which is a perhaps a better general purpose lens). Another possibility is that I get both, but I'm not sure if they're different enough in character (when stopped down) to warrant this. Also, I haven't seen how the Summicron performs in other applications, such as landscape or travel photography. I'd love to hear your view! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maestro logos Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 And BTW your website is a wonderful resource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronald_moravec1 Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 All the lenses are similar stopped down. If you need nearly perfect sharpness to the point of portraits being ugly, but the new apo sumi. If you got a deal going for the old 90 and do not need f 2, buy thr three cam elmarit first version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug herr Posted June 13, 2004 Share Posted June 13, 2004 Maestro Logos wrote: <I>While I've concluded the Summircon is perhaps a better lens for portraiture (which is my intended application), I'm still debating over whether to get the Summicron (for its portrait magic) or the Elmarit (which is a perhaps a better general purpose lens). Another possibility is that I get both, but I'm not sure if they're different enough in character (when stopped down) to warrant this. Also, I haven't seen how the Summicron performs in other applications, such as landscape or travel photography. </I> <P> IMHO the Summicron-R is wonderful for portraits and good as a general-purpose lens. It's hard for me to draw any definitive conclusions regarding landscape or travel photography because my personal experience with the Elmarit-R is limited and also because I've typically used the Summicron-R hand-held so small differences would be masked by my technique. One difference is abundantly clear: when using extension tubes the Elmarit-R is definitely preferable. At close range the Summicron-R's field curvature is huge. <P> I've resolved this issue with the two-lens approach: the Summicron-R for portraits and the 100mm APO for close-ups and landscapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evan_dong1 Posted June 13, 2004 Author Share Posted June 13, 2004 Thanks to everyone that has voiced their opinions and expereince with both lenses. Here I go again with the questions.It was mentioned about the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd and porbably the 4th version of both lenses. How do you tell which is which? Was it determined by serial number and if so, what are the ranges that I should be looking out for? The price range of the Elmarit over the Summicron lens that was quoted to me was about $130 to $165 more for the Summicron. The Elmarit (Series 7) is $269 - $299 (9+) and the Summicron (55mm) is $399 (9). Both are 3cam lenses. Evan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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