Expired Film: what are people's opinions?

[zach_david]

I've noticed a few people selling expired film on eBay, and was just

wondering what people's views are on it. For example, one person is

selling rolls of Kodak 400 asa film with an expiration date of 8-02,

but the film has been refrigerated since the person has had it.

Would this film still come out fairly well?

 

Also, I once had a disposable that I found in my closet. The film

had expired, but there was still a few shots left on the camera. I

snapped a few shots before getting the camera developed. When the

pics came back, only those I had taken right before developing came

out. Any way to explain this?

[terry_stedman]

I've gotten a lot of great deals on film off ebay. Its always a risk, though, since you can't verify that the film has in fact been refridgerated. However, if you buy a whole bunch of film from one guy, I don't see a reason to dispute that the person is in fact a pro switching to digital. If the film has been refridgerated, then it'll last at least a few years past the experation date.

 

As for your disposable camera - I understand that once film has been exposed, it should be developed as soon as possible. The light reaction on the film deteriorates a lot faster than the unexposed emulsion. This is probably more true on the kinds of films that are in disposable cameras than higher quality films.

[john_finch]

I have used expired amateur films with no adverse effects, granted that they were slow and

medium speed - FP4, delta etc. Fast films however, deteriorate more quickly due to

radiation penetrating the emulsion.

 

I would not buy a 'Professional' film that's out of date though. I understand they are made

differently or to different standards and don't last (maybe someone can shed some light

on this?).

[al_divenuti]

As I understand it, Professional Films are somewhat aged before distribution to retail. The reason being that they figure Professionals have high volume demand for film and any film purchased will be used very quickly vs the casual consumer.

 

As I understand it, it is particularly critical for E-6 film. Rather less so for B&W.

[silent1]

Every roll of film I have in my posession is expired. I have TMY and Portra 400 NC that came from Columbia Camera via eBay, old TX (Tri-X) 35 mm in 100' rolls from a private seller, and three different microfilms from three different private sources. I haven't opened the second tin of Tri-X or one of the three microfilms, but all the other film I have is good, with expirations ranging from 1996 to 2001. I just ordered two boxes of 9x12 cm TXP that expired this past January, and I expect it will also be perfectly fine.

 

Film is really pretty resilient stuff -- I'd be reluctant to use Tri-X that was more than about 15 years old because of cosmic ray fogging, but otherwise, unless I have reason to believe it's been x-rayed dozens of times or stored in the back window of a car parked in the sun, I don't worry about it. And I've never had a problem with a negative that wasn't traceable to my own hamfisted exposure technique, camera failure, or a processing error in my own bathroom.

[dave_s]

I'm slow, so in an afternoon of shooting, I'll go through a roll (36) of 35mm, or two rolls of 120. I could save $2 by buying expired film, but I can't see that it's worth it.

[conrad_hoffman]

Refrigeration doesn't completely stop aging, but it's close enough for my purposes. I wouldn't worry about anything that had truly been in the fridge, even after a decade or two. Slow films seem to do well if kept even reasonably cool, but faster films will fog. I don't know if it's cosmic rays or not. I have a couple 100' rolls of HP5 (not plus) that have been kicking around for a couple decades. The base density is very high. They're usable, but not for anything important.

 

Here's a question- do film companies make huge batches of emulsion and refridgerate it for when needed, or do they have to make it up fresh whenever they need to do a run of a given type of film?

[andrew_oneill]

I have two boxes of FP4-Plus dated 2002. I've kept them refrigerated (not frozen) all that time. I opened one box and farted around with it in the back 40, developed it Pyrocat-HD and it looks fine. I know that this film was refrigerated....you'll never truly know if that ebay film really was.

[glenn_thoreson]

I have developed B&W film that has been in the camera for as long as 45 years and still gotten images off of it. Cold and dry = good. Hot and/or humid = bad. Very bad. Black and white film will keep for many years past date when kept cold. Frozen is better. Color film is a horse of a different hue, so to speak.

[rustys pics]

"Here's a question- do film companies make huge batches of emulsion and

refridgerate it for when needed, or do they have to make it up fresh whenever

they need to do a run of a given type of film?"

 

Once the emulsion is heated it has to be used for coating pretty soon. If it cools

and hardens, it's no good. The emulsion is actually made from the connective

tissue of cattle...ligaments, tendons and so forth. So Vegetarians may want to

consider digital...as for me, a Whopper and a brick of Tri-X please!

[25asa]

As some know I've used Pan X film cold stored dated 1982 with fairly good results. It was barely fogged. Of course it helps the ASA is 32 with that film. I hear Pan X doesn't fog much over time. I'll test that theory with a roll of it from mid 70s.

[the_macman]

400 ASA? It would most certainly suck since it dates back ages. If it'd be 400 ISO, on the

other hand... it's like new, I wouldn't worry.

[winfried_buechsenschuetz1]

Expired b/w films are much less critical than expired color slide films. I am currently using slide films which expired one year ago and has been kept in the fridge after buying it (when it was slightly expired) - no problems.

 

I also use Kodak Tri-X Prof. 320ASA with a 1987 expiry date. According to the seller it was kept in a freezer. I also keep it in a freezer, and I don't have any problems with fogging or reduced ASA rating.

[Sandeha Lynch]

Is that for real - you can keep film in a food freezer? What would be the minumum temperature it can go down to - ice cream, fish? I'm asking because where I'm moving to the freezer is a lot bigger than the fridge.

[gaius1]

You can freeze it easily in a domestic freezer, but make sure that you keep it in its airtight protective tub until it comes back up to room temperature otherwise condensation will form on the film, it may still be usable, but it's risky. I keep mine in the fridge and take it out a couple of hours before shooting at least, tho' more often I take a week's worth of film out in one go and leave it on the shelf so I can just grab it, I don't figure a week or two of aging makes the slightest bit of difference (tho' there are people who swear that you should defrost, shoot and develop all on the same day!).

[lachaine]

If it's black & white film, it usually lasts almost forever. Colour film is more problematical, and you take your chances.

[steve_s.]

I used to buy expired film on ebay, and I had no problems on the few rolls I bought. But the prices are rarely that much cheaper than what I can buy from B&H by mail. B&H sells my favorite Kodak and Ilford films for less than $3.00 a roll, so why take the risk? You never know how the previous user has stored the film.

[oskar_ojala]

I just some Delta 100 that expired in '98, came out just fine. Some films are more sensitive. Film curl tends to be a problem with long expired film. If you worry about it, then don't buy expired.

[jay_de_fehr]

I buy expired/vintage films occasionally out of curiosity, and I don't pay much for them. I enjoy using these old films, and some, like the Ansco Super Pan Press that expired in May of 1947, are very different than modern films. The first really old film that I ever processed was Gaevert Versapan in 35mm, exp. date of '67. I shot my kids playing in the water one summer day in '96 and developed in D-76 without much hope for success. I was surprised when an image appeared on the negatives, but it looked very flat and dense. I was even more surprised when the negatives printed beautifully, with glowing skin tones, and luminous highlights, despite the obvious grain. My son was eight years old at the time, and "helped" me print the negatives. One of the images from that roll of film remains among my very favorites. Since then I use expired film fearlessly, and with great success, but I still don't pay much for the priveledge. I'm working my way through a box of 8x10 Tri-X that expired in '88, and I have a half of a box of the Ansco left, but I'm always on the lookout for something interesting and cheap. To my mind there are two criteria for using expired film; 1) it has to be cheap 2) there either has to be enough of it to do the necessary testing for exposure and development, or it has to be shot without regard to results. I've only been disappointed once, by a box of Defender film from the '50s in which the emulsion was completely separated from the base, dried and brittle. Cool box though!<div></div>

[david_carper]

To answer a few of the various point brought up:

 

Out of date film will typically show a loss of contrast, loss of speed, and increase of graininess.

 

Storing the film cold will slow the aging process; the colder the better. You will not find temperatures too low in household refridgerators or freezers.

If you do cold-store film, make sure that it is warmed to room temperature before opening the package.

 

Aging of film is not dependent on the speed of the film. While it is generally true that faster films will show age effects sooner than slower films, there are slow films that age quickly, and fast films that age slowly.

 

When exposed film ages, it tends to lose the latent image. This latent image loss will typically occur more quickly than the other losses of the film. So a roll that is partially shot, left for a few years, then finished off, will typically give better results in the film that is most recently shot. It is for this reason that it is recommended that film be processed soon after exposure, even if still well within the expiry date.

 

David Carper

ILFORD Techncal Service

[jorge_oliveira2]

Sometime ago I've found a long forgotten roll of Tx 35mm, some 30 yrs old. All I can say about it is that it was 'hecho en Mexico'.

 

I exposed some test frames and there was almost no sensivity (about EI 20...) and LOTS of fog.

 

Now I've just found another 2 rolls: again a TX 'hecho en Mexico' and a 20 (yes, 20) frames roll of Ilford FP4. This one looks like exposed and undeveloped! There is "A 72" written in the label, made by Ciba-Geigy. Could this be the mfg year?