sacha_de_carlo Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Brian says "I just did it for fun"... IMHO, this is not respectful to paying members. I think we have some rights, since we appreciate and support the site. I guess nobody gives two shits here, so just move on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorlandphotography Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I'm going to miss the thrill, if that's the correct word, of seeing that one of Photo.net's all star photographer's has taken the time to look at and rate one of my pictures. I have gotten over most of my own annoyance at the 1/1 crowd (especially those who do not post their own pictures), and have tried to do my part in encouraging new members to accept that phenomena as one of the few bad aspects of this wonderful on-line community. I have, however, reported a couple of possible abusers myself, increasing the work load of this organizaton's minimalist staff, and therefore helping to bring on, I suppose, the current state of affairs. I can see where Brian is coming from, but there is the real possiblity of unintended consequences in this action. I for one, without meaningful, occasonal intraction with the serious photographers here, may soon tire of being actively involved. And I, and others like me, tend to be paying members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreas d. Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 About the "friend"/friend issue. Whats wrong if some PN users like the work of particular other PN users? Does this new measure will make them stop rating favorable/unfavorable those people? Or does this measure will make malicious raters to come to their senses? I think not!Nobody can identify those "friends"/friends anymore,not even the honest admirers of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens Posted July 1, 2004 Author Share Posted July 1, 2004 i of course agree with those who do not like this. but i want to emphasis, because it cannot be overemphasized, that i think this is a serious mistake. brian, if you did this on a whim, i urge you to reconsider for that reason alone. restricting access to each other is a real deterrent to participation on the site for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawel_czapiewski1 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 imho it'll only cause lot's of drive by ratings by people with phony accounts. unless u hide the photogs name and make it untraceble to his/her folder for a couple of days. regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawel_czapiewski1 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 or better months. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincetylor Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 The only way this system might improve the ratings situation, is if you do switch them back on often enough. This way all of the raters KNOW that they will be accountable. I also see potential value with the change, in that comments should become more abundant. After all, this would be the only way one could leave tracks. The comments could however be the ridiculous "great shot" variety as when they were mandatory for 7s. That helps minimally. Getting to know other peoples work will still suffer over-all in my opinion. How easy it is now to simply check out the one that visited and rated your own work and in turn do the same likewise. That will no longer be able happen so easily. I also cannot quite see how this will deter the mate-rating much if at all. If you do take the name of the photgrapher that posted the image off as well, it might make a bit of a difference in the mate-rating department. But at the same time it would also limit the exchanges throughout the thread that promote learning. Plus I'd immagine that when somebody posts an image publicly, they would not want their name removed...especially so for copyright purposes. All in all some interesting moves. I am sure the hope is always for improvement. Possibly a move or two too many. Maybe not. Guess we'll have to find out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottershead Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I've added a feature where you can see the list of names of people who rated the photo. You can't see who gave what rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreas d. Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Just a word " glasnost" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_nitsche Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Wow Brian that was quick!!! How about a "comment only" capability if the user wants? You seem in a coding mood... :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens Posted July 1, 2004 Author Share Posted July 1, 2004 thanks brian. i think that is at least a step in the right direction (back!). i'll kick the tires and go for a test drive with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacha_de_carlo Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Thanl you, Brian. that sounds better ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincetylor Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 That helps Brian. I also think if we really wanted the photographer know what we thought, why not just mention it in our comment. I did this at Usefilm. Example: Nice tones, wonderful image etc.....6/6. We can certainly articulate that if we really wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottershead Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 It will mainly stop revenge rating. People will still be able to take revenge for comments. I don't know how to stop that. It will slow down mate-rating, although people can do deals to exchange ratings through email. But that kind of dealing sounds like a lot of work, and I don't think outright corrupt brokering of ratings is really that much of a problem. It is the soft corruption of over-generous exchanges of ratings between people trying to be "nice" or "friendly" that is the main problem. And I think that will largely stop. I'm a bit afraid that the reward for photo.net for many people is all that friendly rating swapping. We'll find out. Basically, I'm fed up with the endless flow of email complaining about low ratings and revenge ratings. Maybe I can live with the email, but this type of thing pollutes the comments threads as well. At this point, I realize I can't really win. Over the past three years, we've seen a stream of good photographers leaving the site. Some of it was normal attrition, and many of them would have left anyway, but many of them SAID at the time that it was because they were fed up with rating misbehaviour. People do burn out on the the rating system rather quickly because of revenge rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
root Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I had a look at a recent upload, clicked on the rates, then clicked on the raters (alphabetical! . . . clever, but yet one more database sort. :-)) How anyone can learn anything from a set of numbers - and I include the site - is beyond me. How much time do you think someone spends looking at an image prior to rating it if s/he has no intention of leaving a comment? There is evidence to support that newbies, especially, often sign up and rate a hundred or more in one sitting. Get serious. If you want to talk about images, do your best to articulate what you're looking at and ask people to do the same. That's how you learn to be critical of your own work as well as others. The numbers are unfortunately the best way to influence what others see and to promote discussion, but that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
root Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Revenge rating is NOT the primary type of ratings misbehavior that causes people to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacha_de_carlo Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Know what ? I really think you're going round in circles ! You KNOW the solution of all this ratings bullshit. what about making photo.net a full paying site ? I am sure you could solve many problems (revenge ratings at least) in this way ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
root Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 CORRECTION - not the kind that causes 'good photographers' to leave. Revenge rating is common among new members who trash each others' snapshots. The solution, of course, is to vote . . . . . . or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_p4 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I notice that there's more and more reference here to making this a full paying site. That's perfectly fair and as for various reasons I cannot be a fee paying member, I bid you good-bye and thank all those here who have helped me advance my photography! :-) Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andreas d. Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Sacha, people who pay, don't revenge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark lucas Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 ROBERT BROWN - what an excellent idea. I couldn't agree more. Turn off the photographers name and see how that works, simple yet cunning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erin_____grasshopper__rice Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 <P>Brian-I'm glad to see you've added the ability to at least know who rated your picture, if not which rating they gave. It's nice to at least be able to jump over to their pages and give ratings/comments if they were nice enough to spend some time in your area. (and by this I do not of course mean "mate rating") <P>I also like the idea of removing the photographers name. I'd like to see the elves pick a series of photographs each week, remove the pg's name and let PN vote for the one that should be POW. And by vote I mean vote on which of the pictures best exemplifies the the themes the elves have chosen for taht weeks picture. <P> Anyway- always good to know your there, Brian. Thanks for trying so hard to make PN great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erin_____grasshopper__rice Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Actually, I think it'd be nice to keep the raters names viewable; but only for the actual photographer. That might help eliminate some of the revenge rating from cliques, etc. Just my $.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_nitsche Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Removing the photographers name doesn't help in situations like mine where I put my signature on my images. The name is in full view for all to see... even if p.net wants anyone to know or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas_collins1 Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I've been an active member of Photo.net for about nine months now and I must say that your recent change in separating ratings from the user names is probably one of the best things you could have done. I believe this will help towards creating more realistic ratings, as people will no longer feel "obligated" to rate an image high just to maintain a friendship, nor will there be as much incentive for traditionally low raters to gain satisfaction from their now anonymous ratings. Additionally, I think that it will spur people to be more descriptive in their comments. Well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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