Silver - has anybody got any tips on photographing antique silver?

[dick roadnight cotswolds]

Through offering my services free of charge to a charitable

organisation (to get a commercial portfolio), I have landed a (trial

for) a commision taking photographs of 150 items of antique silver,

with details of the inscriptions and hall marks.

 

I do not have enough extention for the Macro-Planar 120 to fill the 6

x 6 frame with the hallmarks, so I thought I would use 35mm for them.

 

They think they want "proper" silver prints, as they think they might

be more permanent: silver prints are not permanent - and inkjet would

be more permanent would it not? It would also be easier to include

the reference numbers they require.

 

This will be a complicated job involving light boxes, background

systems (360 degree) studio falsh...

 

The primary requirement is monochrome, but some items are coloured,

so I will need my spare A12 backs for colour film.

 

What films would be best, and has any body got any specialist

experience or tips?

[art_haykin]

A light tent is usually the easiest way.

[ellis_vener_photography]

Bouncing the light off of panels or using medium to large

softboxes close to the subject will yield smoother results that

using light directed at the subject through a tent, although that

approach will give you more control over the placement of

highlights. with that many objects you might want to use the

bounced light or large softbox approach as speed will also be a

factor.<P>printing on fiber based B&W paper , properly fixed,

rinsed and toned will produce the longest lived print.<P>One

more tip; don't assume what they "think" they wan: ask. it is their

project you are just the worker bee.

[ellis_vener_photography]

Bouncing the light off of panels or using medium to large

softboxes close to the subject will yield smoother results that

using light directed at the subject through a tent, although that

approach will give you more control over the placement of

highlights. with that many objects you might want to use the

bounced light or large softbox approach as speed will also be a

factor.<P>printing on fiber based B&W paper , properly fixed,

rinsed and toned will produce the longest lived print.<P>One

more tip; don't assume what they "think" they want: Ask! It is their

project and you are just the guy doing the job. That doesn't mean

you shouldn't take pride in your craft -- you absolutely should!

[dick roadnight cotswolds]

Thank you Ellis and Art.

 

I have undertaken not to reveal the indentity of my client, (I had hoped that they might use some of the photos for publicity) but "They" are working to a specification drawn up by an organisation which, I thought, might not be very progressive. They are ignoring some parts of the specification, so I thought that they might also be flexible re the use of siler prints: They are very cost concious, and want 6 x 4 prints instead of the larger size specified, to save money.

 

Would an ink jet print on good inkjet photo paper, kept in a dark file, not last for hundreds of years? I expect the printer manufacturers would claim that they would.

 

It would be illogical for a lab to offer silver prints from digital files, but I could photoshop a composite print and then re-photograph it: if the originals are MF, the inter-print is A3, and the end product is 6 x 4, the loss in resoloution would not matter.

 

I want to use MF because I would need the interchangable backs for colour, and I might need the Flexbody for large flat items, and I want some good photographs for my portfolio.

 

The room where I will be working is about the right size, and I can line it with white backgroung paper. Paul Waller, from whom I bought my equipment, has a nice large light box, but, with the remote-controlled studio flash unit, it cost him £1,000. I used to put parts, models and glass on a 3' x 4' sheet of plate glass (foc) resting on an old steel bed frame!

[ellis_vener_photography]

<I>"Would an ink jet print on good inkjet photo paper, kept in a dark file, not

last for hundreds of years?</I><P>No.<P><I>" I expect the printer

manufacturers would claim that they would. "</I><P>They don't. Color coupler

prints (standard color prints) won't last that long and the makers of those

materials don't make that claim either.

[richard_cochran]

<cite>

silver prints are not permanent - and inkjet would be more permanent would it not?</cite>

<p>

Silver prints (that is, properly processed, B&W, silver gelatin

images on fiber based paper) are about as permanent as photographic

images get. No inkjet yet comes close. Furthermore, silver print

permanence has been experimentally verified using real long-term

aging, while the best ink-jet tests use accelerated aging

that isn't quite the same (witness the Epson 870/1270 debacle

where their "permanent" inks color-shifted within months when

exposed to air, even though accelerated aging tests showed

they were resistant to UV rays).

<p>

As for lighting, reflective objects can be some of the trickiest

things to light well. A tent can be nice and soft, but

to get shiny things to really "snap", you sometimes need

some strategically placed black unlit areas around the objects,

too. The standard reference recommendation is the book

"Light, Science and Magic", though I'll admit I haven't

read it myself.

<p>

One trick I've seen used with shiny objects is to put a

cross of black tape over a softbox to make it look like

a four-paned window. Properly done, the effect is very

subtle (most won't consciously notice it), but very nice.

In addition to the normal indoor look it gives large

smooth shiny surfaces, it can help bring contrast

to intricately detailed areas of shiny objects.

Experiment.

[jerry_lehrer]

Dick

 

Many years ago when I worked for someof the top studios in NYC, I

remember spraying the silver with a solution of buttermilk and water

with a drop or two of Kodak Foto-flow. When it dried, it prevented

too much of specular highlights. We were shooting with 4x5 Kodachrome and the milk coating, when dried, prevented blocked highlights.

 

Jerry

[Rob F.]

When I asked my plumber how good plastic pipe really was, he said, "We'll know in about a hundred years." That's also when we'll know about the archival properties of ink-jet.

[dick roadnight cotswolds]

Thank you all very much for your help: I am surprised that they have not invented permanent colour ink-jet ink, but the primary requirement in theis case is for monochrome - is black in jet ink any more permanent?

[miles_feigenbaum___dallas_]

I don't like the buttermilk 'trick'; years ago I was maintaining a 'private' Huey that was painted in military colors only using gloss green paint with clear-coat on top. We had a little part in a movie shot in Arizona called Blue Sky. The movie people sprayed the entire helicopter with the buttermilk mixture and after baking on the helicopter for a few days in the sun, it ruined the finish. I ended up polishing out the entire helicopter with compound, but the clearcoat glass look was gone forever.

I wouldn't put anything on the clients product as you don't know the results and the LIABILITY is tremendous. Lactic acid and silver, NOT...

miles

[edsel_adams]

The tent is the way to go.Metal only looks like metal,when it looks white!You need to have it reflect pure white highlights.A tent with a little back lighting cant be beat.

[alan_chandler_smith]

Hi Dick

Try this one put the article in the fridge for a short time bring it out and shot it useing a light box it wil be cold and it will have a layer of condensation on it this takes off the shine and there you go

I used this many years a go and it worked for me.

 

regards alan

[dick roadnight cotswolds]

This is not your standard catalogue job: most of the silver is very old (much of it, I believe centauries old) and not very shiny or polished, so highlights might not be too much of a problem. I could use grey background paper to reduce the highlights and use all bounced or diffused (tent) lighting.

 

I will have to wear jeweller's cotton gloves to avoid finger marks, so applying anything to the silver would be out of the question.

 

One technique I heard of was to pre-fog the film, but I could suppress the highlights in Photoshop.

 

If I could do the job in front of one of the stone-mullioned, leaded light windows, this might be preferable to artificially creating a window effect.

[jim_sabo]

I've had good results with white tents. However, with clean, polished silver, some of the detail can be lost with the flat lighting. Other times I use a a 3/4 tent with a non-diffused light in the opening to pop the details, but the specular reflections can be tricky. I use black poster board strategically shaped and located to mitigate unwanted hot spots.

 

I've learned the hard way that silver will reflect any colors in the room around it, and this can be quite objectionable to some clients, while not really obvious to the casual observer. I once photographed a silver egg for the artist, and she said the slide made it look rusty. It had picked up the wood panelling from the room, and I hadn't noticed!

 

You might suggest Kodachrome slides for dark storage permanance in addition to silver prints. Despite the claims of some ink manufacturers, inkjets still lack credibility when it comes to longevity.