Tray Processing - Amounts of Chemistry Needed?

I am planning on tray processing some 4x5 sheet film in 8x10 trays.

How full to the trays need to be? One reference I saw said to use a

full half gallon of developer but I cannot see why so much.

 

I plan on using the shuffle method, as outlined in the free articles

section on www.viewcamera.com. Is the idea to keep the sheet being

moved to the top of the stack completely immersed at all times?

Despite what you might have read, it is only necessary to have enough liquid to completely submerse the negatives. A half gallon seems excessive. I've successfully used about an inch of liquid in an 8x10 tray for 4x5 negatives.

 

You'll need enough to cover all your negatives. I would think if the tray is half full, that would be sufficient.

I make sure that there is 4 ounces per 4x5 sheet. Using something like Xtol 1:1 there is 64 ounces in the tray. Good idea to start learning with about 4 films/tray; although with this amount you could ideally do up to 12 sheets. Be consistant. I usually shuffle through the stack in 30 seconds and then wait another 30 seconds to shuffle again. You can take the bottom sheet totally out of the solution to place on top of the stack. Very simple-just takes some time to learn. Peter

Unless doing multiple sheets or prints, my rule of thumb is one liter for 8x10, two for 11x14 and four for 16x20 trays.

 

Multiple sheets or prints often benefit from a deep tank manufactured for fixer or washing, which would hold more chemistry.

Be prepared for some scratched film. I finally gave up and switched to hangers or a combi plan t tank.

Absolute minimum, regardless of film coverage questions, you need to have as much developer for four 4x5 sheets as you would for a roll of 35 mm film. With D-76 1:1, you need at least 200 ml in order to have at least 100 ml of stock solution. With HC-110, you need at least 3 ml of concentrate, even if your dilution is such that you don't really "need" that much liquid.

 

However, you also need enough liquid depth to be reasonably sure that film you can't see won't suffer uneven development due to becoming partly uncovered -- and from my reading, that's partly a matter of technique, and partly a matter of having enough depth in the tray. Given that you also need to have some working area around the film sheets in the tray, you're probably looking at a minimum 5x7 tray to develop your 4x5 sheets, and I'd be uncomfortable attempting more than one sheet with less than about an inch of liquid -- which, my educated visualization tells me (not having a 5x7 tray handy to fill and pour into a graduate) is going to run around a quart, or about what I'd normally use for two rolls of 120. Should be plenty for up to sixteen sheets (and the recommendations I've read are to do no more than six at a time unless you're a seriously old hand) if your dilution is strong enough to do 35 mm in a stainless tank without requiring extra volume.

 

I have considered making what amounts to a slot processor for sheet film, in order to develop 4x5 or 9x12 cm in as little as 60-90 ml of liquid per sheet -- but I haven't gotten there yet. When I do, the thing will probably look more like a tube than a slot processor anyway...

I used to develop 8x10 B&W film by tray method. For 4x5 I would definatley choose some other method than tray.

The minimum amount of developer needed per sheet of film is developer dependent. One of the previous posts mentioned the minimum amount of HC-110 but you will need to do some sleuthing to find out how much is need for the developer your using if it is not HC-110. When developing negatives in a tray you should use a tray that is one size larger that your negatives. Also, trays that have "finger" ridges such as the Paterson plastic developing trays permit your fingers to get under the stack of negatives easily which will help in safe manipulation of negatives. Ansel Adams' Basic photo series (with Robert Baker) on the Negative has a very good description for handling negatives that I have used for years and most of my problems on negatives are from dust not scratches from developing.

 

Paul

Thanks, I do use HC-110 and I am cognisant of developer exhaustion if I don't have enough moles of reducing agent for the silver. So basically I just need enough developer to cover the three exposed sheets that I have. (well six, but doubles to nail the development right until I get the agitation/new film (Tmax 100) down.)

 

I want to try this the simplest (and cheapest) way first. The trays I found are pretty nice: heavy duty plastic with slots and a pouring spout.

Mike,

 

Try this (my technique): deep 5x7 tray, 500ml developer minimum (more if you are using dilutions with little stock solution), 4-6 sheets of film at a time, once through the stack every 30 seconds, shuffle the short way (i.e. holding the 5-inch side and sliding each sheet the shorter distance), bottom sheet goes on top, face up, and is pushed down gently with the balls of the fingers, be careful of corners when shuffling and you will be alright with scratches (it does take some practice though!), keep the stack close together and aligned as much as possible, don't let the clock hurry you if things get crossed up, one agitation cycle less doesn't make much difference.

 

As is usual with all manual operations, the simplest tools require the most skill. Practice is necessary to master tray developing, but, once mastered, it is the least troublesome and has the advantages of more even development, easy set-up, and ability to develop film for different times in one batch.

 

Hope this helps,

Mike, if you're using Dilution G, you can do your three sheets at a time in as little as 9 ounces of working solution. For stronger dilutions (and I'll admit I wouldn't want to stand in the dark and shuffle film for 20 minutes before even moving it to the stop bath), enough to reliably cover the film in the tray is more than you need, in terms of capacity.

Since I usually use Dilution B, D or H I shouldn't have issues then. I'll just have to fill the trays and see where the level is comfortable for working and provides reasonable economy on the developer.

 

Now, I'm dizzy converting all these gallons, quarts, ounces, dog leg lifts, etc into metric!

OK I did it. All three negs look fine though it will be hard to inspect 100% for scratches until they are dry. I also did a 9x12cm negative so I processed it separately and agitated by rocking the tray in 30 second intervals. It was nice to be able to do this while fixing the first batch. Multitasking, good :)

 

I found the timer was the biggest pain. I'm using a digital stopwatch with a countdown alarm but I can't see it counting down for the purpose of agitation intervals. I also have to reset it in the dark for fix which is a bit figity.

 

I had no problem using 600mL of developer, same like I would use in my daylight tank.

 

How are you guys handling the washing step? It is a bit unwieldy having a 4 negs floating around in one tray in the sink.

I wash my negatives in a Gravity Works 4X5 negative washer from Calumet. The negatives are held in individual slots and the washer fills and empties with a built-in siphon. I stop the fill cycle just before it siphons, add a little photo-flow, let it stand for 1 minute, then remove each negative for drying.

 

The trays you describe are perfect for negative development. When you want to develop negatives for different times, you can start with a negative(s) that demands the longest development and add shorter development negatives as the clock counts down. I place them in a tray(s) above the developing tray in order of insertion into the developer. I also use the shuffle method, but divide the developing solution between two trays and move the negatives from one tray to the other as I shuffle. Each negative is moved every 30 seconds. I do not develope more than 6 negatives at a time, therefore every 5 seconds (with 6 negatives) a negative is moved from the bottom of one developing tray to the top of the other.

 

Paul

 

Paul