Thin Negatives ?

New so please bear with me, I have also reviewed other post.

 

I have Kodak T-MAX developer and Tri-X pan file. I�m bulk loading

the file so I can snap away (New so I�m trying to get some film

behind me.).

 

I develop the file according to the instructions on the tech data

sheet Black-and-White Film information on Kodak site, Manual

Processing. I take a temperature reading of the developer (68F) and

using a small tank I develop for 6 minutes. The film is almost

transparent! So I try again, developing for more time, then again

with less time. The more time I leave the film in the developer the

more transparent the film becomes. Should this not be the opposite?

 

Develop for 6 (68F with IOS 400 film) minutes. Stop for 2 minutes.

Fix for 12 Min and the rinse and Photo-Flo.

 

What am I doing incorrectly to get the film develop properly? Also

is there a site that shows file that is exposed (properly over and

under)? I would like to refer visually so I can correct my process?

 

Thanks for all you help and time�

Hi Brandon.

 

If you are indeed fixing for 12 minutes that could be a problem. In that time a fast-acting liquid fixer (ammonium thiosufate based) may indeed almost strip the image off your film. Even a sodium thiosufate fixer like the traditional powdered fixers could cause some bleaching after 12 minutes. Try fixing for 3 minutes with a fast-acting fixer and 5 or 6 minutes with a sodium thiosulfate fixer.

 

Other things to check might be the developer dilution and your camera's operation. Make sure the developer is mixed according to the manufacturer's instructions and that you are using it at the specified dilution. Have these films all been shot with the same camera? Check the shutter and lens apature to be sure they are working correctly and not causing an severe underexposure. At the same time go over the settings on the camera and/or meter to be sure they are correct for your film's speed rating (ISO). If your camera has a compensation control for under/overexposure check that it is at the normal position. Good luck.

>>>>"The more time I leave the film in the developer the more transparent the film becomes. Should this not be the opposite?"<<<< ABSOLUTELY! and this is REALLY suspicious. NO properly formulated and utilized developer will leave your film less developed with increased time. Are you SURE you don't mean the fixer (hypo) rather than the developer? The above advice is correct....check EVERYTHING from your camera, to your chemicals, to your methods. Whatever fixer you use, you need only leave the film in there for about twice clearing time. Also, while the stop bath shouldn't bleach out the negs, two minutes seems unnecessarily long. Pretty much in and outshould do. The idea in processing is to keep the total wet time as short as possible.

Don't overlook the possibility of sheer operator error. Recently I ran two rolls of Provia through my F3HP - both were completely blank (with slide film that translates to black - no exposure whatever). In 30+ years of photography I had never failed in loading film properly so I dismissed that as a possibility. Obviously the camera was faulty.

 

So I inspected the camera very carefully, checking the shutter and aperture while someone else watched. Looked fine. loaded a roll of HP5+, being absolutely certain the leader wrapped completely around the takeup spool twice, again while being watched. We both agreed it appeared everything checked out.

 

I exposed the entire roll, processed it normally and it turned out...fine.

 

After 30+ years in photography I screwed up two consecutive rolls. I know how I did it too - I was trying to squeeze an extra frame out of the beginning of each roll and closed the film door without being absolutely certain the leader was secured. Then I forgot to check the rewind knob.

 

Anyway, there's no reason to use rapid fixer for more than 5 minutes. Any fixer will eventually damage the emulsion if left too long, tho' 12 minutes shouldn't strip film bare.

Brandon, inspect the shadow areas of your thin negatives. If you can see some detail (faint, but there) then your exposure is probably in the ballpark and your development technique is off. If you can't see any detail at all in the shadow areas, suspect your exposure is off. I mention this because one error I have made is to rate ASA400 film accidentally at 1600+, resulting in 2 or more stop underexposure which could result in thin negative unless you extend development time to compensate. If you've correctly rated your film but have no shadow detail, run another roll through and have it commercially processed. If the negs are still thin, then suspect your exposure meter. If they come out OK, then at least you've narrowed the problem area to your development technique.

 

If it is your development, then make sure you're not cross-contaminating your developer with stop bath or fixer. Even trace amounts of acid or hypo left over from prior sessions can retard developer activity.

It's highly unlikely that the fixer is bleaching the film, unless that's 12 minutes in undiluted fixer concentrate - even then...<br>What's more likely is that you've got some bad developer, or it's been used at the wrong dilution.<p>Tear off the leader of one of your exposed films to use as a test. Just a couple of inches of film is all you need.<p>Put a small amount of developer in the tank, using your usual dilution, and at the correct temperature. Then drop the piece of test film into the developer, in normal room light.<br> No need to put the lid on the tank or anything. The idea is to simply see if the developer is working properly.<p>Immerse the film for the recommended 6 minutes, swishing it about once every 30 seconds. After a couple of minutes in the developer, you should see that the film starts to turn from a pale grey to a darker grey, and it should become almost completely black by the end of the six minutes.<br>If this doesn't happen, then there's something wrong with the developer, and you needn't look any further for the problem.<p>If the film DID turn black, then tip the developer out, or pull the piece of film out of the tank, and rinse the film off for a few seconds in water.<p>Now put the film in the fixer and see what happens. The film will have a slightly 'milky' or cloudy appearance before it goes in the fixer. This cloudiness should quickly clear, leaving the already blackened film looking a bit darker still.<br>Make a note of how long it takes for the cloudy look to clear from the film.<br>Leave the film in the fixer for the same amount of time again, and that should be your normal fixing time.<p>Take the film out, and give it a quick rinse in water. It should now appear black, but not completely opaque. That is; you should be able to see a light bulb or some other source of light through it, but it shouldn't be so thin that you can read through it if you place it over a page of text.<p>If your piece of test film has come out OK, as I've described it, then the only other thing I can think of is that there's a fault with your camera, and the film isn't being exposed sufficiently.<p>Brandon: please report back and let us know what you find.<br>Too often we get various and even conflicting suggestions about these intriguing problems, and never find out if any of our advice was of any use at all!

I also doubt that your fixer is bleaching the film. There are few things that you should check:

 

1) Is your camera or meter set correctly when you are shooting this film. If you are bulk loading, if doubt that your film canisters are DX coded. Make wure that your meter is set at ISO 400 (or better yet 250 or 320).

 

2) Dump all of your premixed chemistry and mix up new stuff. Be very careful to mix everything acording to the package instructions. Make sure that you get all of the dilutions correct. Also, make sure that everything goes into properly marked containers.

 

3) Look at the edges of your processed film. Kodak exposes film identification marks on the film edges. Your processed film should clearly say "Kodak Tri-X" or some such thing on the edges. If not, you have something clearly wrong with your processing sequence, such as fixing the film before developing (you may have mixed the developer and fixer and placed them into the wrong containers. This is the reason for number 2 above.)

 

4) Please keep us informed and let everyone here helping you know how you are making out.

I tested per your post(s) and dumped my old developer. This seemed to be the problem. I�m not sure if I mixed the fixed with the developer or if the developer was bad from the start.

 

Thanks for your insight, all the posted educated me in one way or another about the development process. If you have any links that would help with the learning process, please post them.

 

Thanks yet again!

In case anyone else comes across this posting as I did after experiencing the same issue, here's what I found:

 

I was mixing TMax RS developer at 4:1 as I thought Kodak's online processing chart called for. Since Tmax RS is a replentishing solution it does not get diluted and is used full strength. I used Pete's method to confirm that the developer wasn't doing what it was supposed to. After using the developer at full strength I got crisp full negatives.