Sodium Sulfite + Rodinal?

Hi Everyone,

Is there really a big difference in grain when adding sodium sulfite

to rodinal? I'm reading "Beyond Basic Photography" by Henry Horenstein

and on page 91 he suggests adding 45 grams of sodium sulfite to each

liter of diluted rodinal. Has anybody tried this? I'm lucky that I

live right by Tri-Ess Science where most photographic chemicals can

be purchased so I'm thinking that if there is a significant finer

grain result to this, I'll give it a try. I know rodinal in its

concentrate lasts a long time, but how long will a one liter dilution

last?

Thanks,

Marc

I can't answer anything about sodium sulfite, but I'll take on

the longevity of diluted Rodinal. While the undiluted concentrate

lasts almost forever, once you dilute the stuff, it has a very

short shelf life. It deteriorates noticably in less than a day.

We've had other Rodinal novices post their bad experiences here

when they tried to dilute a big batch and use it over the course

of a few days.

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For consistency's sake, I'd strongly recommend diluting Rodinal less

than an hour before using it. Only make up as much as you can

use right away. If you want to add 45g of sodium

sulfite per liter, convert that amount to the fraction of a liter

which your tank holds. For example 11.25g would work for a 250ml

tank.

When Pushing tri-x film to 1600 or 2400 ,I always use FG7 with 1 oz of sodium sulfite. It

eats away the grain which does give it a somewhat finer grain look. The downside is that

sodium sulfite makes the grain not as sharp , it looks kind of mushy. It also takes some of

the oxygen out of the water when you mix it with a developer so it does last a little longer.

I would try it and see if you

like the look.

The way to use it is to make up 100 gm/liter in water. Then dilute the rodinal with it for one shot processing.

 

While it works, it destroys the character of rodinal. People have reported sodium asceborate ( vitamin C ) works even better.

The best person to contact about adding things to Rodinal would be Patrick Gainer. He is on this list and has tested several additions. He has also done articles for Photo Techniques magazine about these

additions.

As Ron and Garry said, adding sodium ascorbate works better. Try to get Pat Gainers Photo Techniques article. As I remember, there are few benefits to adding sulfite, but sodium ascorbate gives noticably finer grain. It also increases the activity of the developer, so you'll have to determine a new developing time.

I used sulfite with Rodinal to process Tri-X for many years. It was a recipe by Bill Pierce (now a columnist with "The Digital Journalist") published in "Camera 35" sometime in the early 1970's. The amount of sodium sulfite is not exact--Pierce used 2/3 Chock-Full-O-Nuts coffee scoop per 8 ounces of fluid. I just eye-balled about 2/3 of a tablespoon.

 

The benefits were finer grain than Rodinal with a standard dilution with water. Another benefit was somewhat increased developer activity which cut the processing time a bit. My standard dilution was 1:75 with a processing time of 11 1/2 minutes at 68 degrees for Tri-X shot at 400. The resulting negatives were lower in contrast and a bit on the thin side but they printed beautifully on a grade three paper with a condenser enlarger.

 

Over the years, Rodinal became difficult to find locally. Then sodium sulfite was only available in bulk from Kodak. I eventually stopped using the Rodinal/sulfite mixture but my 35mm Tri-X negatives from the early to mid-1970's still make some pretty prints.

 

I've used Edwal FG7 with sulfite as well. It's a fair substitute for Rodinal with sulfite but the difference in grain is not as apparent to me. The photographers at the newspaper where I worked all came to the conclusion that the benefits of sulfite in FG7 were not enough to offset the hassle of mixing the solution. FG7 mixed with plain water looked just about as good to all of us.

 

As someone posted previously, it's best to mix the solution fresh just prior to developing the film. That's the hassle involved. I always felt the results were worth it when using Rodinal. Give it a try.

Another vote for forgoing the Sodium Sulfite when using FG7. I found it just smeared the grain rather than diminishing it, and cost me film speed, sharpness, and time.

 

There's a photo.net member named Ted Kauffman who tried using Sodium Ascorbate with FG7 and claimed finer grain with an *increase* in sharpness for his trouble. I tried it once but wasn't able to draw any conclusions.

This might be of interest-- FG-7 vs. Rodinal

 

http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10276

Gainer's article on Vitamin C Developers is on Unblinking Eye <a href=http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/VitC/vitc.html>here</a>. Another useful article with information about adding Vitamin C to Rodinal is <a href=http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Rodinal/rodinal.html>here</a>.

Rodinal vs. FG-7 w/ Sodium Sulfite that is...straight up FG-7 doesn't look nearly so mushy.

You might try mising up a 6% solution of sodium sulphite and using that to dilute the Rodinal. I use Rodinal almost exclusively. Its keeping qualities as concentrate are legendary but once diluted it needs to be used straightaway.

I have tried Rodinal with salt, sodium sulfite and sodium ascorbate. A small amount of the ascorbate was better to my way of thinking than either of the others for giving somewhat finer grain without loss of acutance and with an increase in resolution. Add 4 g/l of 1+50 Rodinal and use about the same developing times as Rodinal 1+25, but make sure it is sodium ascorbate and not ascorbic acid. If all you have is the acid, mix it with half its weight of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) in a very small amount of water and let the effervescence subside before you add it to the mix. If this mixture gives you too much fog, add a little borax, about 1/2 teaspoon per liter, to the working solution. As Ed saya, check out unblinkingeye.com.