Shutter Lag: Nikon F vs D70s, D200

When I took out my Nikon F the other day, after having not used it for

many years, I was stunned at how quick its mirror/shutter action was.

It's as though there's no mirror to move out of the way. Sounds and

feels instant, like a Leica. By contrast, my DSLR (Pentax *ist DS) now

seems pathetically pokey by comparison. Slap..slap. (I compared them

at the same shutter speed, with the *ist DS in manual mode.)

 

My question: How do the Nikon DSLRS (D70s, and particularly the D200)

compare to the F series in this regard? How about the D2X? My F is the

original, if that makes any difference.

 

My main subjects are my young children...and I hate, hate, hate

shutter lag! I'm tempted to switch to shooting mainly film, just so I

can have the F's shutter response (and wonderful viewfinder).

 

Thanks,

Mitch

Shutter lag in the D70s , D2X and D200 is at least as short as the Nikon F.

In my experience owning a D70, the shutter lag was more than my N80, F100, F3, FE2,

FM2n, and FE were. I wouldn't say the D70 shutter lag is bad, but it isn't as instant as the

other cameras.

 

Film cameras do have less lag than digital, but I think most here would agree that the D70

doesn't have a bad shutter lag at all. In fact, having shot a wedding with it, I would say it

is good for people photography.

 

Dave

D70 sucks when it comes to the mirror slaping compared to my F2. Just down right disgusting. Worst part of a otherwise wonderful camera.

 

It (D70/70s) is a fabulous camera for UV and IR captures. Quite average for everything else.

So you've experienced the same thing, Vivek? I assume you're talking about the mirror's timing, not its sound or vibration.

 

I suppose the phenomenon is really "mirror speed", not shutter lag. Things seem to happen instantly when I press the button, but the mirror movement (compared to my F) takes forever, thus creating a shutter lag.

Mitchell, it sounds like you might be referring to both shutter lag (amount of time passed between full button press and actual shutter opening) AND mirror black-out time (amount of time passed between mirror up and mirror down, particularly noticeable at high shutter speeds, like 1/2000 or faster)

 

While I don't have any quantitative numbers (I'm sure you can look those up on the specs or reviews), nor an F body to compare, my impression is that my D2H is noticeably quicker in both shutter lag and mirror black-out compared to my D70. Might be my imagination, but it sure feels that way.

 

Also FWIW the shutter/mirror sound on the D70 is more "clop-cloppy" than the crisp metallic "snick" of the D2H, which leads me to believe that the mechanism on the D2H(s)/X is much better damped than the D70(s). Dunno where the D200 fits in that continuum.

I've never shot a Nikon digital SLR but I don't believe they can be as fast as an F or F2. Those cameras have a mechanical link to the shutter release and don't have to fool around with AF. When you press the shutter release they don't pause or hesitate to do anything--the shutter releases. The only "lag" is the microsecond it takes the button to travel a fraction of an inch.

 

Some time ago I got a Canon A80 digital point and shoot. Thought it would be good for taking candid shots of our granddaughter. Absolutely worthless! I aim the camera at her and push the release. Before the shutter gets around to releasing, the three-year-old is three rooms away!

Remember the mechanical Nikons do not have to check the exposure or

focus before they activate. Even the electonic Nikons have reduced

lag if you put the camera on manual, no autofocus, no autoexposure.

Some of the non-SLR type digitals have up to a half second or more of

shutter lag.

Make sure you set up all your shooting parameters that are normally required to achieve max speed of full 3 pictures per socond, then you will be surprised how fast the D70s can be.

 

Possibly instead of "hate, hate, hate shutter lag!" you will start loving your D70s.

 

Just try to learn more about your camera, then use is accordingly.

>>Some of the non-SLR type digitals have up to a half second or more of shutter lag.<<

 

This may be wandering off topic a bit, but ... WHY exactly is the autofocus of a digital P&S so much slower than old film P&S cameras? I can't quote numbers, but the delay on a Coolpix 3200 is long enough to say, "What the heck is it doing?" while I never noticed any autofocus lag on my old Olympus P&S (yes, it HAD autofocus).

 

There must be a simple reason why the newer camera can't use the old mechanism, but I sure don't know what it is. Can anyone comment?

Everything is relative. After going through four digital cameras prior to the D50 I was absolutely estatic at how fast it is. And I believe it's faster than my Nikon 6006 especially in the AF mode. I don't know how the 6006 compares to other Nikon bodies.

Frank, "Just try to learn more about your camera, then use it accordingly." You said it all in one little sentence.

The D200 has a shutter lag of 50 milliseconds. The F6 has a shutter lag of 45 milliseconds.

The shutter lag of my D2h's are 37 mili-seconds.

My D2x is also 37 mili-seconds.

 

Just a bit faster than my old F or my F2 or my F3 ;)

Shutter lag on digital cameras may be attributed to how computers read and write information. While not always the case, the electronic "architecture" of the camera's mother-board may be to blame for lag times. And with a digital camera, as focus points shift, so does writing all that exposure information into memory in anticipation of taking a photograph.

 

It seems that lower end digital cameras suffer from this more than the most expensive models which have "buffers" for information .. and just now are those cameras reaching the ability of film cameras to take multiple exposures on moving targets.

 

I have not heard too many people complain about shutter lag on the D70s but like others have said, the D200 does very well at this .. still not as good as a film camera .. and that's not the only digital ineptitude .. but perhaps one worth mentioning

Thanks all, that's very helpful. To isolate shutter lag from mirror blackout time, perhaps I'll try some experiments with a digital stopwatch, just to satisfy my curiosity. I do suspect the shutter lag is much more than 50ms, though.

 

PS: Frank, as noted above, my DSLR is (are you sitting down?) a Pentax *ist DS, not a D70. But to your point, I suspect I'm experiencing a bit of "familiarity breeds contempt" more than "if I took the time to get to know it, I'd really love it." :-)

"PS: Frank, as noted above, my DSLR is (are you sitting down?) a Pentax *ist DS, not a D70."

 

Your tiltle says D70, you asked about D70, so someone would get into wrong conclusion about your hate for D70 being slow.

 

so - what are you waiting for? get one!

Any misleading aspect of the subject line wasn't intentional.

 

What am I waiting for? A D70 apparently wouldn't get me anything the *ist DS already gives me (except a much less weird camera model name). I might consider a D200, though, if the lag is nil and the dust settles on the banding issue.

Your Pentax can shoot 2.8 pictures per second, so it is close to 3 for Nikon D70. D200 is 5 frames per second an focuses faster with AF lenses, and less faster with AF-S lenses.

 

If you cannot set your Pentax to shoot at 2.8 frames, and at the same time focus manually or auto, then chances are that you will have problem with D200 as well.

 

On D70, I was shooting 6 and 7 years old children running around me in fast play and received nearly 90 % of sharply focused pictures. Pretty much the same I get with D200 and the same lenses. Bigger difference could be in low light condition.

 

Both, with Nikon AF-S lenses, and with AF lenses, in Auto Focus, and in Manual (in manual I was getting less % sharp pictures because I was not fast enough). I never hate the blurred picture that I delete, since I take hundreds, and majority are sharp.

 

I think, you practice more your camera that you have, and possibly you will discover appropriate settings and develop better technique, before getting into the D200 purchase. Quite possible you will have the same problem with D200 ? - perhaps renting one would be good idea?

Yes, I have used the continuous shooting mode, and it did help a bit, but that style of shooting generally wasn't to my personal taste. Most of the time I'm trying to capture a single fleeting moment (usually a facial expression, or more sometimes a wider scene) while I'm also present and interacting with them (3yo and 6-month old). If the shutter isn't responsive enough for that moment, it's gone, and if I have to anticipate or just start firing, it feels more like videography. Yes, I admit I get caught up in personal enjoyment of the process as much as the end result.

 

More practically speaking, my 1 Gb SD card can only hold about 90 RAW files. I found I would get too absorbed in chimping/reviewing/deleting to free up space, which would take me away from being present and having fun with the kids.

 

Maybe I should just buy a few 2Gb SD cards as a compromise so I can do my reviewing after-hours....That would certainly be cheaper than a D200, especially since I only have manual focus Nikon lenses.

 

Anyway, thanks for your suggestions, as they help me think out loud and also remind me that continuous shooting is a tool I can use on occasion.

<i>Those cameras have a mechanical link to the shutter release and don't have to fool around with AF. When you press the shutter release they don't pause or hesitate to do anything--the shutter releases.</i>

<p>

1. Shutter lag, properly defined, does not include autofocus delays.

<br>

2. Autofocus can be turned off, now can't it?

<br>

3. Comparisons with point and shoot cameras in leiu of SLRs you haven't used are irrelevant.

Oh, and

<p>

4. Modern digital SLR's have no more shutter lag than film cameras, and less than some of them.

"4. Modern digital SLR's have no more shutter lag than film cameras, and less than some of them."

 

Sorry, unless you're talking about top-end, professional or semi-professional DSLR's, that statement is absurdly broad and meaningless, not to mention untrue in many cases. My little 70's era Olympus XA (a point and shoot manual focus rangefinder film camera with electronic shutter) is about as quick as it gets - significantly quicker than my modern Pentax DSLR. Likewise my Nikon F is way, way faster than my modern Pentax DSLR, which itself is much faster than my Oly Stylus Epic, which is probably slower than recent vintage Canon digicams...etc (all comparisons using pre-focus or manual focussed so focus lag isn't factored in).

Here are some shutter lag times compiled by Lighting Trigger...<br>

<br>

Nikon D2H & D2X, 37 ms<br>

Nikon F5, 40 ms<br>

Nikon F6 & F100, 51 ms<br>

Nikon F4s & F3 w/ MD-4, 55 ms<br>

<br>

Very nice figures.<br>

<br>

Here is a link to Lightning Triggers camera compatibility

page...<br>

<br>

<a

href="http://www.lightningtrigger.com/CameraCompatibility6/CameraCompatibility6.htm"

target="_new"><u>Camera Compatibility</u></a><br>

<br>

Unfortunately there is no listing for the Nikon D70 or D70s nor one

for the Nikon D200.<br>

<br>

Note the figures for Canon models when the exposure is not preset.

It doesnt look good. Id hate to have a camera that

had different lag times depending on metering and mode.<br>

<br>

Best, not the other stuff,<br>

<br>

Dave Hartman.