Shutter issue with M6 at 1/1000

<p>Hi all, just wanted to know if anybody had a similar problem!<br>

It shows up at 1/1000 second with my M6 0.85 classic, is this because the curtain bounces back? The breakes wrong adjusted? Is this an easy fix?<br>

Will it be there also at the other speeds, only less and less visible due to longer total exposure time?<br>

Thanks for your time!</p>

<p>Knut</p>

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<p>Shutter fading. Time for a clean/lube/adjust. Probably due to congealed lube.<br>

That can't be a problem with the brakes, since it's at the starting side of the exposure area. Also, at least on the closing curtain, bad breaks would lead to bounce-back of the closing curtain, and thus over-exposure.<br>

The low shutter curtain tensions and speeds of the Leica cameras make for a very quiet shutter, but one that's much more sensitive to needing proper maintenance. It can't power through congealed lube, and the slit width is very narrow at high speeds, making it very sensitive to small errors in curtain speed.</p>

<p>As an M6 classic with .85 viewfinder this camera is just 10 or 11 years old. Isn't this a bit young to require a CLA? - We (well, I) tend to think of Leicas as not needing these until they are several decades old and are well-used.</p>

<p>You're confusing the Leica shutter with the Nikon RF/F shutters. The biggest problem with Leica shutters is they probably need more periodic (5 + yrs?) CLA for proper function especially if they get little use. Those that use their M's on a regular basis might be able to give a more accurate estimate. Periodic excercise of the shutter/advance might help to delay CLA intervals.</p>

<p>OK, I've explained the technical reasons for this condition in past postings, so I'll add a bit more DYI this time.</p>

<p>Congealed lube would be the diagnosis if the speeds were inconsistent. Knut states that the M6 isn't that old, and assuming that the camera hasn't been in high heat conditions, this may simply be that the first curtain barrel spring fatigued slightly.</p>

<p>Remove the 3 screws in the 2nd base plate, the two barrel spring adjusters are on the "rewind side". The 1st curtain is the one on the "eyepiece side". (2nd would be on the "lens mount side") Click the 1st curtain <strong>3</strong> increments in the <strong>counter</strong>-clockwise direction. Of course, use common sense through out the process, after all it ain't brain surgery.</p>

<p>Harmless and this will clear up the in-balance difference between the two curtains. Just saved you $175 plus...</p>

<p>I've read that the curtain springs are not subject to fatigue much at all. I wouldn't want to power through dirty or failed lube, as it can damage the bearings in the long run.<br>

Also, the uneven nature of the mis-exposure doesn't point at just curtain spring tension. That would be a straight fade, going from dark at the left to bright at the right. This might be a bit of foreign matter in the bearings -- like a film chip.</p>

 

<p>John, with all due respect.</p>

<ol>

<li>A film chip in "in the bearings" if it could fit, would jam the shutter. </li>

<li>Curtain springs are <em>easily</em> <strong>adjustable</strong> for the reason that they do waiver as they age or break-in. </li>

<li>The synthetic lubricant used by Leica for more than a dozen years, apart from the aforementioned "high heat" won't just fail. </li>

<li>If Knut's camera were that dirty to contaminate the lube, then it's a no brainer that it would need a full CLA. </li>

<li>The key diagnostic "pulse check", would be to have the speeds checked on a good 3 sensor shutter checker for the erratic "all over the map speeds".</li>

<li>My simple fix is exactly that... </li>

</ol>

<p>FYI : I've been a technician since the 70's, owning once again a Koritsu CTT "3 sensor" shutter tester; what I've described is camera repair 101.</p>

<p>Kurt,<br>

If it was me, before undergoing any expense, I would empty the film from the camera and run it through each of the shutter speeds about 10 times. Then try again. <br>

I had a total failure with my M6 on 1/1000 on 2 or 3 occasions, but after adopting a regular 'work out' for the shutter, it hasn't happened again for over a year. The problem (I imagine in all technical ignorance) is that 1/1000 is a little-used speed, but very sensitive to gummy lubricant.<br>

J.</p>

<p>Apologies, <strong>Knut</strong> !</p>

<p>Thank you all for consideration in this matter!<br>

I bought this camera half a year ago from a p.net member and it is in very clean condition overall. Excessive heat exposure I can hardly imagine.<br>

I did expose since then 30 to 40 rolls, but yes, I didn't use the 1/1000 more often than a couple of times.<br>

The lower (audible check at 1, 1/8, 1/15, 1/30) speeds run consistant and smooth with the sound of a healthy mechanism.<br>

Thought that a regular use of the remaining shutter speeds would keep all in working order, as the curtains run always at the same speed?!<br>

I'll try with actuating the 1/1000 40 times and having a test film afterwards.<br>

Thank you John, and especially Gus for the trouble-shooting!!<br>

Jonathan, don't mention. </p>

<p>Your welcome Knut ! </p>

<p>Don't forget, <strong>3</strong> Clicks counter-clockwise will do.<br>

Understandably, mindless clicking of our Leica's is fun, but I'm not offering you (And everybody else) a <strong>band-aid</strong>, it just happens to be the <strong>cure</strong>...</p>

<p>I've had the same Problem with my Classic M6. A dark stripe, just at the 1/1000 Sec. I've send the camera to Solms and they didn't fix it, but exchanged (!) it for a Leica MP (!!!). This is a common Problem with the M6 that is hard to cure, they said.</p>

<p>Peter,<br>

I think you'll start a stampede! I wish my problem would return if that's how Leica will fix it!</p>

 

<p>ok - I guess they did it because I'm in their "Professional"-Program and I've spend really big bucks for repairing another faulty M6 half a year before that. So take this with a grain of salt...</p>

<p>No, I don't really expect a free lunch. ;-)<br>

All the same, for the record, on the very few occasions I've needed them Leica UK have given even me a first class service, to their eternal credit.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Over the past few months I've had my M6 Classic in twice to be repaired for the same problem. I was getting over exposure down the left hand slide of the frame, which was more evident around 1/500 and 1/1000. Nothing had changed after the first repair, so on the 2nd repair the brake was replaced. I've just shot a roll this weekend and it's still the same, therefore it's going back in again this week. 3rd time lucky, although I'm not entirely sure what will be the outcome. It's starting to get really frustrating.</p>

<p>Mat, sorry to hear of your trouble. You don't say where you have been sending the camera for repair, but as you'll note above my experience of Leica (UK) service has been extremely positive.</p>

<p>Thanks Jonathan. I bought the M6 second hand from Stephens Photo Centre on Deansgate in Manchester.<br>

www.leicas.com<br>

It came with a years warranty, therefore I've just been taking back there. They has use a local technician for repairs but I'm not entirely sure who it is. The owner has been really helpful and supportive with the problem. I just hope they can sort it. I've been using my Nikon FM2 more in the meantime.</p>

 

<p>By way of encouragement, Mat, someone once said to me that every Leica ever made is either still operational or could readily be made so. Hyped, of course, but basically true.</p>

<p>

 

<p>I hope you're right! <br>

Below is an example of the problem I'm getting. I get varying oddities happening down the left hand side of frame, especially at faster shutter speeds (1/500 and 1/1000) Not sure if anyone can shed any light on this??</p>

 

</p>

<p>Here's the issue....</p>

<p>Hah, sorry, I'll try to get this right this time...</p><div></div>

<p>Curtain bouncing which does a <strong>quick</strong> 2mm re-exposure of the image that just occurred.<br>

CLA and brake adjust will solve the issue.</p>

<p>I've followed Gus' advice to correct similar problem, but I can't get rid of darkening in left completely.<br>

Seems my M6 needs shutter CLA. That's pretty lame, because 18 months ago it was in Leica Solms service. As it's not the first problem since then, I have lost trust in Leica service and will look for other private service options which can get their job done better.<br>

Thanks Gus for great tips anyway!</p>

<p>Hi Gus,<br /> i have a quite similar problem with my leica m4, but it seems to be more pronounced. i already tried to fix it by following your advise and adjusted the spring for the 1st curtain a quarterturn counterclock-wise, but it did not seem to have any effect.<br /> would you recommend to rotate the spring adjuster a bit more?<br /> thank you!<br /> tom</p><div></div>