RAW> TIFF> jpeg

Hi guys, this is probably a pretty basic question.

 

I like to shoot RAW (Nikon NEF) for maximum quality and post capture adjustment

potential. However, the RAW converter that I have (software supplied when I

bought the camera) is basically rubbish, though I have photoshop CS. My question

is:If I convert to TIFF, I still have all the original RAW data (now in a

useable form)right?

I know even high quality jpegs compress the data somewhat. If I convert to TIFF

then go to Image>16 bit will I still have all the data originally captured? Or

how do I find out if my converter is converting to 16bit or a 8 bit file?

Also, is it possible to convert TIFF to jpeg, as I've had compatibility problems

with TIFF files in the past?

 

I basically don't want to shell out ?100 or so for Capture NX if I already have

adequate software.

The conversion from RAW data to any RGB form (TIFF, PSD, JPEG, whatever) implies both

gamma conversion, to convert the sensor's linear gamma to the brightness curves that

suits human vision, and chroma interpolation, to derive the actual pixel values for R, G and

B from the Bayer matrix of individual RGB sensor sites. This process of necessity has to

compress the values in the upper portions of the tonal range and expand the values in the

lower half of the tonal range. The conversion of RAW data to an RGB channel oriented form

is non-reversible, you can never retrieve with 100% fidelity of the RAW data unless the

application that does the conversion actually retains *both* forms in the output file.

 

So, no matter which RGB representation of the RAW data you choose, at least 30-40% of

the actual RAW data has been "lost" ... transformed through interpolation or cast away ...

which ultimately reduces its editability. The advantage of using a non-compressed or

losslessly compressed RGB format like TIFF or PSD is that you are not further losing data

to compression artifacts by an even greater amount.

 

If you already have Photoshop CS and are using Camera Raw to perform your RAW data

conversion, I would strongly suggest buying Bruce Fraser's book, "Real World Camera Raw

with Photoshop CS/CS2" (and upgrading to CS2 or CS3 as well) and learning how to use

them to greatest advantage. All the tools you need are right there already, and the

answers to your questions will become clear in reading that book.

 

best, Godfrey

I always shoot in NEF and I've tried many Raw converters, but Capture NX is the best tool for getting the full potential of NEF files. I process the NEF with Capture NX and when I'm satified, save it as TIFF (16 bits) for printing or further processing, and I use jpeg only for the Web.

And more important, when you process the NEF with Capture NX, you can save the resuly as NEF and open it again in Capture, so you have all the tunings at hand and you can fine tune them again and again to get the optimum result. When you save as TIFF, all the tunings are lost, but of course you can open the TIFF in Capture NX to process it again ...

Capture NX has very powerful easy to use tools to fine tune the NEF file and get fantastic results. Since you have Nikon camera, forget about Photoshop CS and try Capture NX.

The soft you got with camera is not a RAW processor and if you use it to save the NEF as TIFF, you won't get the same results as you would have by processing the NEF with Capture NX (or other RAW processors such as Adobe Camera RAW, Lightroom, Bibble, ...)

<I>If I convert to TIFF then go to Image>16 bit will I still have all the data originally captured?</I> <P>If they are output in the ProPhoto color space the answer is basically yes. Both Adobe RGB(1998) and sRGB will clip your potential (or real, depending on the specific image content) color gamut. <P>

 

<P><I>Also, is it possible to convert TIFF to jpeg, as I've had compatibility problems with TIFF files in the past?</I><P>yes.<P>but in all cases make sure that you do not over write the original data with these converted files.

ACR for Photoshop CS may not work with newer cameras. In that case, you can download a free copy of Adobe DGN Converter. Once you copy the RAW files to DGN files, Photoshop CS can operate on them freely. DGN files are similar to the RAW files in that all the original data is there, and the various settings are tags, not changes in the DGN file, and can be changed without any loss.

 

TIFF files can be 16-bit (it's easy to check), but all of the adjustments made to the RAW file are permanently committed. You can't reverse these changes without some loss.

 

A better solution is to upgrade to CS3 - which is relatively inexpensive if you have a legal copy of CS.

Nx is a fine converter and does more than CS2. Raw Therapee also.

 

You can do further edits in NX so you can do a much as possible before leaving raw mode. $130 B&H.

 

Same advantage to CS3 or lightroom to a lesser extent. NX can do local adjustments still in raw. Lightroom and CS3 only global adjustments.

 

Download a free NX trial. You will like it.

 

Save as a NEF, open in CS and it will open in raw. Simply make no adjustments and go to ps.

 

CS upgrade is $200

OK, I'm the fly in the proverbial ointment here. I have downloaded a trial Capture NX, and I find it pretty damn ordinary. It's horrible for sorting files (the thumbnails are tiny and I can't seem to make them any bigger), and it doesn't have half the capabilities of Photoshop.

 

Mark, there's something you really need to know that no one is telling you: Photoshop CS3's raw converter (ACR) will not read any in-camera adjustments you make with a Nikon camera. Not only that, in my tests I've shown that any in-camera adjustments (Vivid, sharper, etc etc) cause ACR to actually degrade the image. Whereas Nikon provided a Plugin (Nikon NEF LE Plugin) that operated with CS2 to override the ACR and read the alterations embedded in your NEF files, they are refusing to provide one that works with CS3. This means that, if you want to use CS3 you are forced to first sort your files in a Nikon software program, then export them as something other than NEF files, and then reimport them into CS3.

I'm a complete novice with a digital camera. I've shot film with my Nikons before but now I shoot mostly 4x5. I picked up a D40 two days ago for quick vacation and family shots and just to see how I like digital (I always focus manually anyway for those thinking I should have gotten a D50 or D80-I'd love a D200 but too much $,$$$). My understanding is that a single RAW file has the unmodified image data and it is 'tagged' with the in-camera adjustments. If I understand this correctly then you have the option of working on the unmodified file, so you can set you white balance, saturation etc OR you can work on the RAW file with the in-camera adjustments applied. Do all RAW converters allow you to look at your file either way? Or do some just allow you to look at the RAW file? Or just look at the RAW file with the in camera adjustments?

Nikon View for sorting. Capture NX for editing.

Scott, Nikon Capture NX uses your in-camera settings as its defaults, but allows you to change them during raw processing. Most other raw converters (including Adobe Camera Raw) ignore nearly all of these settings (white balance is a common exception - ACR certainly reads it) so the starting point will be whatever you've set as defaults in the raw converter. I don't think Tony is right about in-camera settings degrading the image in ACR - the settings are just metadata tags, as you suggest. If I'm wrong, I'd be interested in seeing any NEFs that display this behaviour (would need a pair of otherwise identical images with significantly different in-camera settings to compare).

I'm used to 4000dpi scans from my 135 film and high bit scans from my 4x5 done on an Epson 4990. I took a look at the histogram after a simple levels adjustment on a jpeg from the D40 and almost fell off my chair! I guess I'm spoiled. I've never see gaps in a histogram like that except in a book or magazine article and my exposure wasn't that far off. I think I will need all bits I can get out of the RAW file just to get the quality I'm used to. Now it comes down to upgrading from CS to CS3, buying Capture NX or Bibble to get a RAW converter. Here I thought the D40 was going to make life easier for me ;)

 

Scott

Hey Richard, I can only go on what I've seen on my screen. What that shows me is that images which are made on my D80 and my D200 that have in-camera adjustments are desaturated beyond Normal and slightly soft whhen imported into CS3 via ACR (which, as you say, ignores the camera settings). If I shoot without any in-camera adjustemnets (i.e. on Normal), then they appear OK, with reasonable saturation. As the cliche goes "go figure"! Maybe ACR just doesn't like files that it can't read cleanly?