pyro for 135

Is it true that pyro developer doesn't suit for 135 because it more

graininess?

Tht's one question I'm also looking for answers...

 

Take a look at:

 

http://www.photogs.com/bwworld/illumitol_pyro.html

 

It's mostly unknown - and I don't know how good it really is.

This is my opportunity to jump in (with both feet as I am wont to do) and ask:

<p><b>Just what the <i>hell</i> is pyro, anyway?</b>

<p>Yeah, I know; read the archives, search the web, blah, blah, blah.

<p>You know what? To be perfectly honest, I'm just too goddamned lazy to do that.

<p>I just need a simple answer. Somewhere out there, there must be a simple FAQ entry on the subject. I don't want the 9-pound treatise, thank you very much. Just the facts, ma'am.

Pyrogallic acid. Sounds like it comes from a tree? It does. Or did; the original dates back to the mid-1800s. AKA, pyrogallol or plain ol' pyro. Stains the emulsion. Trays and fingers too. The effect is generally considered best appreciated in contact prints from larger negatives.

 

Variations have been brewed up claiming similar advantages that are either less toxic, easier to work with, work better on rollfilm, etc. See also catechin, catechol, pyrocatechol or just pyrocat.

 

You think the claims for tonality are confusing enough as-is? Try reading up on the claims for tonality with staining developers.

To clarify:

 

"gallic acid"

Related: Organic Chemistry

 

(trihidrok´sebenzo´ik) or 3,4,5-trihydroxybenzoic acid , C 6 H 2 (OH) 3 CO 2 H, colorless crystalline organic acid found in gallnuts, sumach, tea leaves, oak bark, and many other plants, both in its free state and as part of the tannin molecule (see tannin ). Since gallic acid has hydroxyl groups and a carboxylic acid group in the same molecule, two molecules of it can react with one another to form an ester, digallic acid. Gallic acid is obtained by the hydrolysis of tannic acid with sulfuric acid. When heated above 220, gallic acid loses carbon dioxide to form pyrogallol, or 1,2,3-trihydroxybenzene, C 6 H 3 (OH) 3 , which is used in the production of azo dyes and photographic developers and in laboratories for absorbing oxygen.

pyro can be tricky for smaller formats.

 

It has a number of features that make the users/devotees praise it. Use results in a masking effect -- almost another layer of density, by actually staining the negative. This, and other effects, allows a wider contrast range to be printed; thus you hear of phenomenal tonal range, and that highlights are easier to separate and print, while still having shadow detail. It also has a more marked "edge effect" - where light/dark edges meet, an accentuation, even a light band that sharpens the edges. The is physically small on a large format negative, and just looks like edge sharpening, but the same effect on 35 may be significant, and look like a ghostly edge (but effective). I do not find this latter effect that controllable or predictable. Grain is, as always, a matter of taste, and the mask effect does obscure the grain edge a little, so some say it looks smaller grianed than it is.

 

I would agree that most pyro users see to be medium/large format folks, but it can be used in 35, and I can say I have like some results obtained. However, for finer grain, sharpness, and predictability in 35mm, I would opt for more standard developers. Experiment and see if you like it, but not on your next once in a lifetime shoot. Someone will disagree, and I have seen some very good results with it. Also, some variabel repsosnes with films -- some take to it, some don't (I've heard).

 

You may have to change some of your darkkroom technique, maybe even your fixer. Try the photographer's formulary, or Barry Thornton's web site (over the Atlantic) (sorry I do not have either web address, search), who has his own alternative Di-xactol, and his web site has more glowing desciptions of the advantages of similar developers.

I find Pyro works very well with 135. I have some beutiful 135 shots from Ilford HP5.

No, it's not true.

 

PMK, at the very least, is great for 35mm film. I can't comment on other pyrogallol developers, or on any pyrocatechin developers. (The two are very different, but both pyros stain film similarly.)

 

I use PMK with Kodak Tri-X and Plus-X, and occasionally with Ilford Pan-F Plus, FP4 Plus and HP5 Plus. It works great with all of them. I don't have a lot of luck with it with t-grain films (at least I haven't yet; I know a few people who love Delta 400 with it. I'm still experimenting.)

 

Tri-X in PMK has better tonality and finer apparent grain than it does in ID-11 / D-76 1:1, but it still looks sharper (usually less grain on a given film means less apparent sharpness). This is because the staining adds density and acutance, increasing apparent sharpness, but masks grain.

 

Try it. If trying it is impractical, shoot a roll of Tri-X at 400 or Plus-X at 80 and mail it to me. I'll mail you back the negs. (Send me an extra roll to cover the postage. :) )

Jim; I have some laundry with tremendous stains & at this point is fairly "sharp". Does your offer still stand? ;)

David- what if I told you pyro is made from a bi product of Yak salivary glands....:).

Back in 1973, on a whim from reading an Ansel book, I tried 35mm Tri-X (now old Tri-X) in ABC Pyro. Yes, the negatives were grainy. But, they were the sharpess I'd seen , up til then. But, at 8x12, the grain wasn't ALL that bad and tonality was great. For finer grain, I usually went with Ilfrod Perceptol. I finally went back to Rodinal for sharpness as it was easier to get and mix.

Yes, Patrick. Send me your laundry. I'll soup it in PMK. I'll ship it back black and brown and lovely. You might have trouble printing through the cloth, though. :)

 

Garry, do give PMK a try. I think you'll find that it was everything ABC Pyro was, and more.

If you can find a copy of Camera Arts Magazine, Winter 1997-1998, there is an article by Gordon Hutchings on "Pyro for the Small Format." Sadly, CAM does not have this article archived on its website, but the cover of that issue is; it's the second from left when you get to the site. Try your local public library. It's worth hunting for!

If I'm recalling correctly (and my memory is for beans) Sandy King came up with his Pyrocat developer with small and medium format in mind. Check the archives using his name and Pyrocat as search terms for clarification.

A somewhat late, but...

 

http://ccollege.hccs.cc.tx.us/instru/photog/stdimgs/Mueller/mueller2453.html

 

PMK and PX 35mm w/ photos.