Posts on EOS film cameras in this forum?

Discussion in 'Canon FD' started by alan_rockwood, Jan 10, 2011.

  1. Would many people here object if questions and comments for EOS film cameras migrated over here instead of being posted in the so-called EOS section? Posts on digital EOS cameras have come to dominate that section to the extent that they have diluted out discussion of film-related EOS questions, making that section pretty much useless for discussing film cameras. Hence, as far as significant discussions here at photo.net are concerned, film EOS cameras are essentially orphaned. Frankly, in my opinion film EOS issues have more in common these days with interests here in the FD section (film) than in the current EOS section (essentially digital these days.)
    Actually, from a user point of view the best solution would be the creation of separate EOS film section, but for various reasons the management does not want to create such a section, so maybe the migration of film-related Canon cameras to this section could be a next-best solution.
    Thanks.
    Alan
     
  2. Yeah, I guess 13 responses to http://www.photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00XzLX means EOS film camera discussion is dead.
     
  3. Lucky us. I count one film-related thread in the extended list of the most recent threads at the EOS section. (See list below.) That's one out of 43... not too useful in my book.Furthermore, once a thread falls off the most recent threads list it is impossible to browse. The photo.net search function helps a little, but only if you know what you are looking for. (In fact, the tools at photo.net for looking at old posts are not all that good, but that's another topic.)
    For illustration, here is the extended form of the current "Recently Added Forum Threads" at the EOS section:
     
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  5. Would many people here object if questions and comments for EOS film cameras migrated over here instead of being posted in the so-called EOS section?​
    Not really, Allen, but it needs to have an FD connection, like FD lenses on an EOS body.
    Posts on digital EOS cameras have come to dominate that section to the extent that they have diluted out discussion of film-related EOS questions, making that section pretty much useless for discussing film cameras.​
    Digital camera discussions dominate that section because digital cameras dominate photography. It's just statistics. Have you started a film EOS discussion there and not gotten any responses? I read them there from time-to-time and respond occasionally, generally when a beginner is involved. I don't post over there regularly since I already know what I need to know about EOS and they don't have picture threads there save the recent Thursday posting which I enjoy.
    If you want more film EOS discussion there, why not lead the charge with some interesting posts and/or picture threads. It's your forum too. Be the change you want see. Maybe you will inspire others.
     
  6. awahlster

    awahlster Moderator

    I'll take this up with the "Management" and see what Josh and the other head moderators have to say about it. From my point of view as one of the moderators for the Canon FD forum I wouldn't want EF mount based film discussions to over run our little corner of Photo.net.
    And sorry to say this but I have a very had time believing that if EF mount based film discussion starts up here that digital would be far behind.
    For instance would a film user ask a question about various lenses here or on the EOS forum? Would I have to sort out any answers based on that lenses use with a digital body from the rest of the responses.
    I really don't see how you could divide up the EOS forum and have it work out.
     
  7. FWIW my experience posting questions to the EOS forum regarding film-based EOS bodies have always gathered useful responses. I was skeptical for the same reasons perhaps that Alan is posting (most or all other threads are digital EOS topics) but I was happily surprised by the responses I did receive.
    Perhaps as Louis suggests, simply the dominance of digital EOS photography means that there are fewer potential respondents to posts since fewer of the readers have film EOS cameras; however, those people who have taken the time to post -- and they always have -- have posted useful responses.
    I advocate leaving the film EOS topics with the EOS forum but would read and respond to them in whichever forum the administrators of PN determined they best resided.
     
  8. Alan,
    Can you point to EOS film-camera discussions that have not been adequately answered in the EOS forum? Why do you assume that moving EOS film-body topics to the FD forum would suddenly open the flood-gates to /new/ EOS film body discussions?
    Additionally you're proposing that only a sub-set of the EOS system be moved over. This would force moderators of the FD forum to move any topic that drifts into EOS lens questions back over to the EOS forum.
    EOS should stay with EOS. There are already 2 sub-categories devoted to bodies (one called "EOS Bodies" and one called "EOS Digitial SLR Bodies" within the EOS forum that you are free to browse.
     
  9. Thanks for the responses so far.
    I think the point is, in part, being missed. It is not just being able to post a question and then get a response. More important to me is to be able to browse other threads to gain information and respond. My activity in doing that sort of thing is probably at least 20 fold higher than posting questions and waiting for answers. It is that kind of activity which has become, for me at least, relatively worthless at the EOS thread. In fact, I seldom look at that thread anymore because, with little chance of finding something interesting about the EOS film world, it is mostly a waste of my time.
    Taking it up with Josh might be a good idea. However, I have done that once or twice already, and he likes things the way they are.
     
  10. Sorry, but that simply doesn't make sense for an organizational or informational point of view. EOS system questions are best asked where there are the largest number of people who have the knowledge to answer them. That is in the EOS forum.
    Alan, I am sorry that you don't feel interested in the EOS forum any longer. But that doesn't change the fact that it is (and has been for a dozen plus years) the place where there is the greatest collection of EOS system knowledge on the site. The FD forum will stay specific to the FD system. EOS questions do not belong here any more than they would in the Nikon forum.
     
  11. I just saw Josh Root's answer. For what it's worth, I couldn't agree more.
    This forum is active precisely because it is limited to FD only. The Mods here do a great job of culling out non-FD posts and the energy devoted to doing that is no doubt considerable.
    If there is a problem with searching a forum that's a question that should be addressed. But adding EOS to FD isn't the answer.
     
  12. awahlster

    awahlster Moderator

    OK guys we have our answer from the "Management" and FD stays FD and EOS stays EOS.
    Now go burn some film.
     
  13. Alan, I share your dissapointment with the EOS forum and the limited amount of film body and use discussion. I feel like I have been orphaned several times since 1986, most recently, momma or someone took my Kodachrome away, '86 Canon took my FD away. Every film dropped by a manufacturer makes me feel sad. I visit this forum multiple times per day as well as Classic Manual Cameras, Film/Processing, B&W and Casual Photo Conversations. About once a week for the EOS forum.
    I think all EOS should stay where it is because the lenses are the same and that forum is likely where the most users of EOS film users would be. I suppose many EOS digital users either use EOS film with digital or previously used EOS film before digital EOS.
    Maybe there is some way to make the EOS forum better for film body users but I have no ideas or suggestions right now.
    I use EOS film and digital cameras in addition to FD and other film gear, so I do have an interest in the EOS forum. I hope the FD forum will remain FD only but I suppose I could tolerate posts about FD lens use on digital cameras.
    What could be changed or added to make the EOS forum better for the EOS film body user? Any ideas from anyone?
     
  14. Not to stir up another hornets nest but what about the FD predecessors that used the FL lens system? Should their questions only be answered in the Classic Manual Camera forum where there are so many different brands with a dizzying array of features and designes? Or, could they be asked here where the knowledge base of FD users overlaps heavily the earlier FL equipment?
     
  15. [[What could be changed or added to make the EOS forum better for the EOS film body user? Any ideas from anyone?]]
    Community tagging (with moderation) of posts. If each post were tagged with topic(s) those tags could be indexed, searched, and/or have an RSS feed generated from, you could subscribe to the EOS forum feed with a filter on a specific tag or group of tags. That way topics that start as one thing but drift into (or begin to include) others could be updated as the thread progressed. It could help but would require a lot of work and is subject to the same "garbage in == garbage out" limitations of any community-based tagging system.
     
  16. Just to back Josh up, there's no logical reason to put any EOS posts in the FD forum. EOS film bodies share no more with FD cameras than they do with Nikon cameras. The systems are pretty much totally incompatible except for a few speedlites and maybe a few cables. There's just no connection between the systems, other than both have "Canon" written on them.
    EOS film body posts are very welcome in the Canon EOS Forum. The fact that there aren't many of them isn't an indication they aren't welcome, it's an indication that only a small fraction of Canon EOS users are still shooting film.
     
  17. Community tagging (with moderation) of posts. If each post were tagged with topic(s) those tags could be indexed, searched, and/or have an RSS feed generated from, you could subscribe to the EOS forum feed with a filter on a specific tag or group of tags.​
    It is something I have though about before, but it's rather low on my "to do" list I am afraid.
     
  18. What about an "Autofocus Film Camera" forum, similar to (and a follow-on to) the Classic Manual Camera forum? It could be a forum to address all AF film cameras from all the manufacturers.
     
  19. Just to back Josh up, there's no logical reason to put any EOS posts in the FD forum. EOS film bodies share no more with FD cameras than they do with Nikon cameras​
    Just to back Josh and Bob up, I'd like to remind that EOS film bodies share a lot with EOS digital bodies and their questions are closely related, like:
    1. Can I use a Fujinon lens on my Canon ELAN 7?
    2. Can I use a Pentax screw mount lens on my Rebel XTi?
    It's so wrong if the first question goes to FD Forum and the second question stays in EOS Forum. And where should #3 and #4 go:
    3. Can I use the remote release of my Canon EOS IX with a Canon Rebel XSi?
    4. Can I use the remote release of a Canon Rebel XSi with my Canon EOS IX?
     
  20. [[It is something I have though about before, but it's rather low on my "to do" list I am afraid.]]
    As well it should be, I'd say. That's a "wouldn't it be nice" feature not a "will keep the site running" feature. :)
     
  21. The only difference between EOS Film and EOS Digital is the film. There are 2 very useful forums (B&W-Film & Processing and Film & Processing) which most FD forum users would turn to anyway for answers on what we feed our FD bodies.
    Use the EOS forum for hardware questions and one of the film forums for 'software' questions.
     
  22. Consider if you will the Canon EF-M owners' plight: not only is it a film camera, but manual-focus only too!
    A brother, separated by a mere lens mount flange.
     
  23. I'm with Bob Atkins on this, for all the common ground between Eos & FD you'd be better off combining Canon FD with Minolta MD, since they are both orphaned manual focus systems, similar in use and era of manufacture.
    EF based equipment, film or digital, shares so much in common that it would be mad to move eos film to this forum.
     
  24. Not to stir up another hornets nest but what about the FD predecessors that used the FL lens system? Should their questions only be answered in the Classic Manual Camera forum where there are so many different brands with a dizzying array of features and designes? Or, could they be asked here where the knowledge base of FD users overlaps heavily the earlier FL equipment?​
    Asked and answered. I can't find it, but there was a thread about that ages ago, the gist of which was that FL and FD are inseparable brothers.
    FWIIW (nada), I'm with the majority view here. It would be greatly reduce the value of this forum to dilute/pollute it with EOS-ery.
     
  25. The majority is probably right that opening this forum to EOS film cameras would dilute/pollute the FD forum. In a way this reinforces my point. The digital aspect of the EOS forum has done the very same thing to the analog aspect of the EOS forum, i.e. diluted it till it is of relatively little use.
    Let me emphasize again that it is not simply the ability to ask a question and get a response that makes a forum useful. In fact, that is only a small part of it. Far more useful is to be able to browse a number of conversations on topics of interest, the vast majority of which were started by someone else. To see what I mean, ask yourself how you use the FD forum. Is it only when you have a question that you tune in, or do you go to this forum to find interesting conversations on topics of interest which you can read and sometimes contribute to? If there would be few if any threads showing on topics of interest would you continue to tune in? That is exactly the problem with the current EOS forum, at least as it concerns film users. Dilution on that forum has pretty much made it useless for such purposes.
    It has been pointed out that the film and digital EOS cameras use many of the same lenses and accessories, and by implication that this should be enough commonality to justify having a single forum to serve two disparate groups. This issue boils down mostly to lenses. It is true that there is a lot of overlap between film and digital accessories (mostly lenses.) However, there is less here than meets the eye because a given lens in the film system often serves a different purpose than the same lens in the digital product line. How often have I started to read a thread on, let us say the 50mm f/1.4 lens, hoping to see a discussion of normal focal length lenses, only to find out that what they are talking about is portrait lenses for reduced frame digital SLR cameras? In fact, a large majority of lens discussions at that forum are specific to reduced frame SLR camera context and have little commonality with full frame film cameras.
    Further, with regard to lenses, there is much in common with lenses in the FD forum because many of the lenses in the EOS product line have the same optics as older lenses in the FD product line, and for reasons just discussed the use to which such lenses are usually put have more in common with folks over here than with folks over there.
     
  26. Since EOS film cameras are rapidly becoming "Classics", how about a new forum somewhat after the eclectic style of Classic Manual Cameras? Name it "Canon EOS Film" or somesuch and let we cranky old contributors discuss our EOS 630's and EOS 5's without cluttering up what is primarily a digital forum.
     
  27. I think some FD users wish EOS had never seen the light of day, as it marked the end of FD lens and camera development. The other way to look at this is that orphan status made FD a lot more affordable.
    Maybe someone can show if Canon's claim about the FD mount standing in the way of advanced equipment development was more than cover for a sales-motivated change.
     
  28. As far as the question of FL mount cameras:
    As far as I'm concerned, any discussion of FL mount is welcome here. The FL mount and FD mount are backward and forward compatible. I use my FL 55mm 1.2 on my T90 all the time, and have used my nFD mount lenses plenty of times on my FL.
    The lens mount architecture of both are the same, just with some differences in the number of levers and pins on the back of the lens.
    That's not to mention that the most common FL mount camera, the FT, is a whole heck of a lot like the FD-mount FTb.
    So, to me, it's a logical step to include FL questions under the banner of FD discussion.
    By contrast, the EOS and FD mount share very little in common and IMHO, the discussion of the EOS mount has little relevance here.
     
  29. Personally I think it would be a good idea because the daily posts (in regards to film equipment) on both forums are minimal at best.Most FD guys already have a extensive collection of film EOS equipment in their arsenal.Many started the gradual transition many years ago because FD had been discontined and they wanted to move on to the latest hardware.Maybe call it The Canon SLR Film Camera Forum? If you shoot a T90 FD you are already 90% EOS anyway.Most posts on FD have been asked a thousand times before and EOS film would bring fresh interest in Canon film based equipment.If something is not done soon the FD form is going to get shut down due to lack of interest and boredom.
     
  30. Gee, Douglas, I'm not so sure about the numbers of FD owners having EOS gear. I don't. Those FD people I know here in my area don't. In fact many who moved to digital and kept their FD gear went to different brands, perhaps resentful of the way Canon deserted FD? Since an EOS site already exists, why not stay there. If you need another format, why not create one. And I'm not sure your comment about the daily posts being minimal is either germane or relevant. Seems this post got lots of response, so folks here are, if not posting new subjects and queries daily, at least paying attention.
    We haven't had a poll for a while. Might be a subject for a poll : How many FD users have EOS film equipment; And how many of us use digital and what brand they went with... ???
     
  31. I've picked up a few EOS bodies but hardly ever use them, mostly because I don't have any sufficiently useful EF mount lenses. I second the idea that moving EOS 35mm posts in here would get very confusing because any discussions on EF mount lenses would no longer integrate across analog & digital EF mount bodies, and except for the rare question about adapters there would be next to no chance of any meaningful overlap with discussions relating to FD/FL mount equipment.
     
  32. I'm not so sure about the numbers of FD owners having EOS gear. I don't.​
    Nor I. And I came to FD after owning an EOS for 13 years. Still only have the one now-hardly-used EOS body and one just-still-functioning lens for it. My wife wishes I could say the same about my FD Versammlung ... :)
    I really do sympathise with Alan's point, though. I just don't think the solution to the problem lies here.
     
  33. I'm with leaving as-is. Any time I've had an EOS film cam question, it's always been answered in the EOS forum. I find the biggest problem in the EOS forum is a lot of folks don't know how or are unwilling to use the search function here or google, the constant baby questions about which lens and which body to get, 99% of them have been asked previously. With that said, it might be helfpul under "forum archive" if you could add an EOS Film Body category, to separate from digital?
    Ive never used anything but FD(1980), EOS film (1992), EOS digiscam (2006) and use all to this day. I'd venture to guess, no data just based on reading here and seeing other photographers, there are more people shooting film with FD bodies than EOS.
    In the last month I've started using some of my FD lenses on micro 4/3. Oh boy.
     
  34. Well, I have a few FD and FL bodies and lenses. I am selling off all my EOS equipment, as it was a brief detour to try things out, and in the AF and DSLR world, Nikon's ergonomics and controls are something that I like a lot better.
    The beauty of FD bodies and lenses is that yes, they are affordable and a camera like the A-1 is a joy to use. I see no point in diluting the group with EOS questions, which would be quite different from the FD/FL world.
     
  35. A similar concern to the one I raised in this thread was just raised over at the classic manual cameras forum, namely that film related content was being drowned in a sea of digital content. The only difference was that it concerned the Nikon forum rather than EOS forum. The discussion was extremely active... 37 posts in less than 24 hours, but Josh closed it down pretty quick with the comment that things weren't going to change and that "Things work fine around here 99% of the time."... kind of like Mary Poppins ("practically perfect in every way.")
    These two threads (the one I started here, and the one just referred to at the classical manual cameras forum) are just two of a number of similar concerns that have been raised in several threads. There really and truly is a problem with film concerns being swamped by digital concerns at forums like the Nikon forum and the EOS forum. I just wish there was 1) a recognition of this fact, and 2) a way to make it work better for film interests for EOS and similar generation products from other vendors.
    Although the one I proposed here and the one James Kennedy proposed over there are not in the cards and maybe not even the best possible proposals, there must be some way to make things better.
    Anyway, thanks for all your comments, pro and con. I'm just going to take a minute now and pop over to APUG to find some discussions about EOS film cameras.
     
  36. Well Alan you gave it a good try,thanks for the effort.I brought this issue up many years ago in the EOS Forum and hit the same brick wall - nowhere to go in a mostly digital forum.Canon produced FD for about 25 years and it looks like EOS film will last about the same lifespan in production.The problem is a lot of the FD equipment I own is getting towards the end of its service life and is not worth the investment for CLA/repair anymore.FD arrived on the scene 40 years ago!As E6 approaches $20 a roll to purchase and process there is not a lot of money remaining to fix ancient equipment.I'm sure many others are in the same boat.I'll never give up on my F1's and L lenses but I'm getting more reluctant to bang them around for general purpose use so I've been using more of the film EOS equipment that I've picked up for next to nothing over the years.That is the main advantage to the EOS film equipment,it is a lot newer and has little resale value.I figure you are correct because in a few years all of us are going to be in the Classic Camera Forum like it or not.In a digital world FD & EOS film together are probably about 1/10 of 1% of the market.
     

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