POLL: PC or Mac

Discussion in 'Digital Darkroom' started by natalie_l, Feb 14, 2009.

  1. Hi everyone,
    I'm curious what everyone uses at home, PC or Mac.
    I know this is slightly off topic, but I wanted to ask the question. Currently I use a dell pc but am considering going Mac. I've had my pc for 4 years, including a dual video card with TWO 19'' LCD monitors which has really worked well for me. If I got a Mac I'd need a mac pro, with two monitors, its about $5-8,000 with a few bells/whistles.
    What do you have at home a PC or Mac? How many gigs or is it 1 T? Just curious!
    Natalie
     
  2. Forgot to add, with 500G external hard drive
     
  3. PC: one Dell desktop with 22" LCD and 2 external HD (500mB each) for photo related; one 12" Dell Lappy for travel and one Sony 15.4" Lappy for browsing PN. Total <$2000!
     
  4. I have a PC and I started with that years ago basically to learn for and interface with work PCs. I no longer see a need for that and I am anxiously waiting for Apple to come out with a desktop as the Pro is expensive and overkill for me. Strong rumors that new Imacs will be released with upgraded hardware that can utilize more ram than current models. As much as I like the Imac being an all-in-one, that is also the downside.
    I am sure a Mac is in my future mostly for photography. But, I am currently using a Dell, 19" crappy non-widescreen monitor with 4 Gigs of ram and will keep using that for other things. I inherited this one from my daughter after she got a Mac Book Pro for college. So it is not my first choice, but it works fine.
    I want widescreen for photography. Too much cropping on either side to make it fit a monitor with a screen resolution of 1280x1024.
    With your question, I hope others comment as to what type of monitor they use..."regular" or widescreen. My wishes are for a monitor to diplay 1900x1200, LED backlight, ultrasharp, and highly adjustable. I know a lot of people prefer CRT monitors, but I believe almost none are made anymore. I don't like their bulk, the heat they give off, or power consumption.
     
  5. iMac-250GB with a LaCie 500GB external hard drive. cb
     
  6. I have only one computer for my home and personal business, a 2006 Mac G5 with 4.5 Gbytes of memory and 23" Cinema monitor (and no MS software or applications). It does everything I want to do including 4x5 scans, but I'm not a full-time professional photographer generating a lot of images or need a lot of businees services. Personally I think you'll find the Mac easier to use and manage, but it's about becoming comfortable and familar with the computer to be productive.
     
  7. IMac 24 with 2 GB ram. Files are off loaded to 500 external so I don`t let the main drive get overloaded. I have no complaints. Photoshop can utilize no more than 2 gb for psd and 4 with TIFF. More than than that is no advantage. If you do a lot of batch processing, I would get a Mac Pro or if I really needed 2 screens, a Mac pro. I think 20" cinema displays are $800 @ and a Mac Tower is $3/4000.
    I also have a portable Macbook for travel.
    Mac has wonderful customer service.
    Additionally a cheap refurb IBM I use for excell, surfing, e-mail and assorted junk jobs .
    A new Dell will have Vista or whatever they sell now. So drivers for the screens you now use may not work and there may or may not be updated Vista compatable drivers. Vista has become very picky about what you can install.
    There will be some learning curve with a mac as things will be a bit different. Windows photoshop will not move to a Mac, so you need a platform swap which cost $25 and you MAY need to buy the current upgrade.
    Microsoft has a lot of operating system glitches I no longer wish to deal with.
     
  8. I'm a Mac user who has worked for many years in a dual-platform environment. I have my reasons for preferring Mac, but in the interests of not going "there" I'll leave that out.
    My current system is a 24" iMac with an external monitor. The built-in monitor is quite good for photographic work, and I use the external monitor to expand my workspace by placing various windows and palettes there while keeping the main screen free for the photograph itself.
    With that in mind, it is quite possible that you do not need the larger and very much more expensive "mac pro" system with its separate monitor and so forth. While it used to be the case that you simply could not consider a system in the iMac line for serious photographic work I am now convinced that this is no longer the case. (I also do relatively high-end audio/music work on this machine. In fact, I teach in a 30 workstation lab full of such machines where students do this sort of work.)
    Many Windows users (and some Mac users who haven't kept pace with recent developments) are very surprised to find how powerful the new iMacs or in functional terms. I urge you to look at them.
    Dan
     
  9. I don't have the kind of budget you are talking about so I stick with PCs. When I bought my laptop 18 months ago, I briefly considered an Apple, but I also don't have the budget for all new software.
    There is also one more personal issue. I have used PCs since 1988 and I used Macs at work for 5 years. In cars I prefer manual transmissions over automatic transmissions, I prefer manual cameras over automatic cameras, and I prefer PC over Mac/Apple, and all for the same reason; I want control!
     
  10. MacPro and a MacBook Pro for on the road.
     
  11. I really don't understand the control comment. Just clicking on the program folder in Windows and it wants to know "are you sure" this stuff is best handled by me, Windows.
    In any event, our primary workstation is a PowerMac Dual 2.7 w/7GB Ram. 3- MacGurus 5-bay Burly Towers for storage. At any given time I have at least 5TB loaded between various hard drives with a years worth of wedding distributed across 3- 1TB drives in Aperture Libraries. This main station uses one 23" ACD and a calibrated 19" NEC. The NEC was from our 2nd station after our LaCie just became to difficult to calibrate. Eizo later this year! 2nd workstation is a G5 dual 1.8 with 3GB Ram and my wife usually works from the laptop, MBP 2GB Ram. All computers on a home Gigabit network. To be fair, I run Windows on the laptop via Fusion as I actually teach a ComEd class on basic computers.
     
  12. Changed to an iMac last year and never looked back.
    turns off and on in seconds, no virus issues.
    Brill
     
  13. There is also one more personal issue. I have used PCs since 1988 and I used Macs at work for 5 years. In cars I prefer manual transmissions over automatic transmissions, I prefer manual cameras over automatic cameras, and I prefer PC over Mac/Apple, and all for the same reason; I want control!​
    Unfortunately, many folks still think of Macs as they were prior to OS X. Macs are now Unix boxes with a really great GUI. There is nothing more controllable in the commercial computer world than a Mac. Really. Truly.
    I use a 15" Macbook Pro stock in the last version before LED screen backlighting. It has 2GB Ram. I use a 2TB WD Hard Drive for storing images and a 500 GB WD Hard Drive for a running Time Machine backup and my music library. Both of those are over Airport Extreme which is fast enough to do this without pain. I usually keep a copy of the images I'm actually working on on my internal hard drive to speed things up.
     
  14. I've got a old G4 (dual 1ghz) mac running photoshop cs3 and an old sony CRT monitor (calibrated by I-one) that I use for photography still. You know, it's more than fast enough for files from my Canon 5d and I use a lot of layers on my photographs (mostly adjustment layers with masks).
    I also use it to scan 6x9 film from my nikon ls8000 scanner, and these files can get quite large, sometimes over 2 gigs. It sometimes takes 20 minutes or more to save one of these files:( So for this, a newer, faster computer would be nice, but mostly just for the ability to use more than 2 gig of memory I would think.
    I do have a modern MacBook Pro as well, but I don't really notice a lot of speed advantage when working with photographs with it. I think this is because data swapping to the macbook's hard drive is slower than the internal drives in my old G4 tower.
    I have stayed with mac over the years because I know the system, don't worry about viruses, and I use Final Cut Pro movie editing software which is common with my colleagues. Other than that, I would think a PC is pretty much the same for photography, but I don't think it's really much less expensive for the equivalent set-up.
     
  15. Intel iMac 20" with 2GB memory; also MacBook Pro for travel. Love both.
     
  16. I believe with the same amount of money I can get a much better PC than a MAC. Not saying Mac is bad, Mac is good and I love Apple's design but it's too expensive for me now.
     
  17. Nat, Go w/ a PC for the lower price competition brings and more software titles and hardware compatibility.
    Use the money saved to buy a nice lens.
    I use a Dell w/ 500GB RAID ZERO hard drives for super speed.
     
  18. Once you go Mac, you never go back.
     
  19. I have both. At one time I was a partner in an Apple dealership but I have been working with both Macs and PC for the last 15 years.
    Mac has a slight advantage in colour management when you are using multiple monitors and certainly they look more stylish.
    I have a Macbook Pro laptop which is better than any other other laptop I have owned. I use a PC for my desktop as it is cheaper and easier to have one custom built for working with images. I have a 2TB RAID drive for my images, a 320GB drive (C) for applications and Windows and several drives of various sizes for backup. Any hard drive will fail sometime on a Friday afternoon when you have a major deadline.
    Spend money on a good and reliable storage system and backup, a good monitor, a built in card reader, the fastest processor you can afford and a decent video card for working with images. Anything else depends on personal interests ie games, music or video.
    Find a good local PC store that understands the needs for Photoshop as they can build a PC for you. Stay away from the Big Box stores as you will be sold something generates more commission for the sales rep.
    Good luck!
     
  20. 24" IMAC. 300Gig inside, 1TB outside for photos, 750G outside for photo backup. Use lightroom, CS4 with the Photomatix plugin and an HP B9180 printer. Fantastic screen. Converted about 6 months ago, after being a PC person since they first came out. I just got sick of all the crashes and on-going problems, PLUS NO SERVICE from Microsoft or Dell or HP. A few observations.
    PRICES: They are going down. Check out MAcMall on-line. And you can get in-store and telephone Apple support if you buy at the Apple store, from MacMall or direct on the Apple site. (see Below)
    NEGATIVES: First, if you "think" with PC logic, the file system on the MAC is confusing and often obtuse. Ditto for many other features. But as you find out how a MAC "thinks," you begin to understand their logic. Even then, it still does not make sense many times. MACs try to shield you from a lot of stuff that you take for granted on the PC. Second, MAC's have problems, just like PC's do. It's just a computer thing.
    POSITIVES: Fast shut down and start-up. Fantastic monitor on the IMAC and the notebooks. Customer service is actually unbelievable. I can call Apple and get a person on the line to talk to and work with me till an issue is solved. Usually within just a few minutes. ONE-To-ONE is an Apple service that will, for $99.00 a year, allow you to go to an appointment at the Apple store and get one-on-one help on any issue you have. One hour sessions, by appointment, as many times as you want on any subject for one full year. There is no better deal around. If you have Lightroom on your PC, adobe will let you switch platforms FREE. If you have Photoshop, they charge you $5.95 to switch platforms, and send you a new CD and Box, etc. Great deal. Their Time Machine, a part of OSX, is a built in backup that backs up every change you make on an hour by hour basis. And the files are NOT compressed, so you can go back day by day and retrieve most anything you had instantly, even when erased from your present drive. The UNIX based system is really fast and simple, and it amazes me that when you install a program, it just installs very fast in one fell swoop. No more registry issues.
    I guess I love my MAC.
     
  21. DeLoyd - What about the file system on a Mac is confusing or obtuse?
     
  22. PC.
    Macs are nice (great design and interface), but they are really overpriced. I also enjoy building my systems and tuning them out, something you can't really do with a Mac.
    I also don't know why they changed the name to "Mac Pro" ... sounds so boring. Everyone on the internet wants to be a "Pro." POWER MAC sounded so much cooler! - and more ominous...
     
  23. Spearhead

    Spearhead Moderator

    If you have Photoshop, they charge you $5.95 to switch platforms, and send you a new CD and Box, etc.​
    Here's a caveat on this since I am going through the platform switch. If you did not register your copy with the PC originally, even if you have gone through four (!) registered upgrades since, and you don't have your original media even if you have the serial number, Adobe will make the platform switch virtually impossible. I have been trying to do it with an upgrade, and it's been a nightmare. Amazingly, Adobe told me that I could continue to upgrade on the PC but I could not upgrade with a platform switch. They have a customer prevention policy that is really unpleasant, and switching platforms can be very, very difficult. I'm still talking to them (I estimate they have now spent about $200 talking to me on the phone) but it's not a happy situation.
     
  24. For the record, I have no interest in convicting anyone that one platform is better than another (I have no stake in what anyone else chooses to use!). However, the TCO (total cost of ownership) is typically MUCH LESS on a Mac. Check out eBay prices for a three year old Mac vs a three year old PC. And that's just one factor in TCO.
     
  25. Here one of my Photoshop licenses was from old Photostyler; another was when I tuned in the Mac version of Photoshop 2.0 for a full bore PC version Photoshop 2.5; with some added cash. After awhile on has to buy a full bore version again. Thus 2.5 / 3 /4 / 5.5 /6 /7 /CS /CS2 /CS3/CS4 etc upgrade doesnt work. For an Imac 20" unit in which we added CS2; it was far cheaper to buy a bundle on Ebay with full Mac PS7; and a Mac upgrade for CS2; then buying full bore CS2 for the Mac.
     
  26. As a 20+ year Pc user, I switched to Mac (I-Mac, 24", 4GB RAM, 465GB HD) last May and can't say enough good about it for photo processing. Yes, there is a learning curve, get the "Switching to the Mac" by David Pogue. It will walk you through the differences between operating PC & Mac. In order to avoid the expense of changing platforms for all my other programs, I elected to retain a pc laptop for MS programs such as Word and Excel. No problems upgrading across platforms with Adobe although I did have to sign an affidavit that the original PS 7 would be removed from the computer and if the software was found it would be destroyed. Apple support has been excellent.
    I used dual monitor system on the PC but with the 24" screen I find that I have room for the pallets and still plenty of working space for the image. I did just add an external hard drive but haven't really seen any difference in performance--still super fast.
    Good luck in your decision.
     
  27. PC: Dell, quad core processor, 3 Gb ram, > 3 Tb hard disk space, 24" monitor. Mainly all that power is used for video editing: For just images it's overkill.
     
  28. Both: 2 PCs, 1 Windows PC server, and an iMac. For me, it's like debating Nikon or Canon. Why not use both--or the tool that is best for the job. I use both PC and Mac for imaging and they are both equally up to the task. I use the iMac for presentation and video production because of unique Apple software. More business software is available (and at a cheaper price) for the PC.
     
  29. RE; However, the TCO (total cost of ownership) is typically MUCH LESS on a Mac. Check out eBay prices for a three year old Mac vs a three year old PC. And that's just one factor in TCO.

    Here most all of my dozen plus computers are PC's.
    Many are used for scanning; batch files; photoshop are from Ebay or auctions; a few year old off lease PC's.
    Thus the box thats used to command the Nikon/Canon slide scanner(s) are a IBM Pentium III with a 1Ghz cpu and 1 gig of ram; it was 50 bucks off of ebay; its overkill for the application.
    The support and documentation is excellent; the ram cost is trivial; drivers well documented; ite uses a standard ATX power supply it ever craps out. I bought a pallet of these same boxes about 5 years ago; I have 8 units and 4 spares in usage of this class computer; the entire lot cost less than the cute 20" Imac we bought for a retoucher.
    The iMAC 20" unit from 2006 cost about a grand; the pallet of computers was about 500; freight 120. The iMAC 20" unit from 2006 with OSX 10.4 will not read many VISTA written discs; but a obsolete ebay Pentium III with XP from 5 years ago will.
    For bigger files ie mapping we have several XP 64 bit boxes with 8 gigs of ram; adding CS4 allows one to handle giant files; one breaks the old 32bit 4 gig barrier. The 64 bit box was just a new old stock HP workstation 3.4 Ghz; dual core; two L2's with 2 megs of L2 each for 450 bucks 18 months ago. All I did was add ram to 8gigs; and add CS4. The computer cost a tiny fraction of a Mac tower unit; its total cost was less than CS4.

    For SOME of us using a PC means we spend a tiny fraction compared to using a mac; say 1/10 the cost.
    The source of decent PC's is often trivial or even free. One of my FTP sites I run is on an old so called obsolete box I got free; its a 2.8 Gz Prescott unit that I just reformated and added an OS and FTP software; freeware.

    Even monitors are a trivial cost; two home units are 20 buck Sony trinitron Dells; 19" flatscreens.
    In a couple of the IBM's from the pallet buy; they had XP and Photoshop already installed; scrapped out school units already filed with 1 gig of ram and Photoshop 7.0. Buying a computer for 50 bucks with Photoshop already installed means the total cost has been 10 bucks per year over the last 5 years.
    When one has dozens of computers the cost of ownership per unit can be very small if one plays one cards right. There is NO RULE one has to to the dumb typical thing of exposing unprotected computers to the internet or public.

    In commerical work there is also no rule one has to have a nice computer case; if one is a computer in a gasoline pump; or scanning folks slides; or batching files.
    It really doesnt matter whether you use a PC or Mac or a Red Hat box; what matters is getting the job done.

    Some folks like Macs.
    They might also like our Imac 20" 2006 unit that Steve Jobs has decided for YOU that it will not load Photoshop 7.0; but a PC from 1994 will.
    Like Government; some folks like others to decide and define ones life; with a PC one has more freedom to use older software.
     
  30. I have a 20" iMac.
    In the past 20+ years, I've had one PC. It was like throwing money down a rat hole.
     
  31. Thus to read a customers images for printing at our shop; IF they written with VISTA and the settings are are not set backwards compatible; the CD cannot be read by the 1000 buck Imac 20" unit; Steve has decided for YOU that either you do not need this customer; or you beloved cute prepie Imac obsolete; thus you upgrade it; or scrap out the 2.5 year old box. Thus a 50 buck 5 year old XP box off of ebay; or our 349 buck VISTA box can be used to read a customers VISTA disc; and then the files transfered to the Imac 20" unit. Thus sometimes an old PC is usefull as a way to read Vista written discs; something our 2006 Imac 20" cannot do; but our triple boot IBM with XP can do'; with a box whose hardware is from 1996. Having customers that are pure mac users is a good thing; we get there customers inputs they cannot read; something others have decided as being good.
     
  32. Mac users are a great source of free PC's too.

    Many former PC users just fill them up; never clean house; never defrag; never run a virus program.

    Thus many times a disgrunted former PC user's computer's HDA is just placed as a slave unit on one of our don't care computers; and one either formats it; or removes the impacted mess.

    First one searches for temp files and removes many gigs of crud. One might have an older P4 with a 80 GIG HDA and XP; and only a few hundred megs are left on the HDA.

    The chap wonders why it is so slow and crashes; its full.

    One deletes temp files and then one has 1 to 3 gigs more headroom; now one can actually peek at files radically quicker.
    One searches for giant files; then deletes some movies I already have; the one might have 5 to 10 gigs now free. One then might try defraging; many times it is just a solid red bar.
    You wonder if the users house is like this; all clutter; trash in the hallways; never doing any housekeepng. Then one try running a virus scan and it picks up a ratnest of virsus crud and trojans; thats why I mentioned a dont care box that I can reghost it pickups any manure from Mac users old PC box.

    Its actually an interesting exercise in understanding the Mac religion.
    One might peak at the disc's properties; it never been defragged for over 1000 plus days; ie never since its about a 3 year old box.
    The former PC was baffled why as the computer aged it look longer to save a 40 meg file; one new it could be placed in one place; when old; impacked and not defragged the 40 meg file might be scattered in the few holes left; in dozens of spaces 100 to 200k each; over the entire disc's radius of tracks.
     
  33. PC - Dual 2.4ghz Xeon HP Workstation with 3 gb RAM, 1.5tb internal HD storage, plus DVD, with ATI FireGL video card and dual Samsung 20" LCD monitors. Oh, and a WACOM tablet to scribble with.
    Former MAC user. I don't care what the platform is, so long as I can run the software I need to run and do my work.
     
  34. Mac, unless I need to use a PC, then I boot into Windows on my Mac! That's like twice a year. Point is, if you get a Mac, you can both. I honestly can't see why anyone would be a Windows box.
    Oh, take a peek inside a MacPro case. Man, a beautiful site.
     
  35. Changed to an iMac last year and never looked back. Awesome, no problems
     
  36. Andrew; its about money; custrom designing; having control; being an individual; backward compatibilty; not drinking the koolaide! Thus If somebody has an IBM cassette for a PC; I just fire up the old original IBM PC with the cassette port. One might have customers with unknown stuff/data on old 48 dpi 5 1/4 floppies; sometimes they do not read as well on a modern 1.2 Meg unit; but a older unit will read them. Using a PC allowed some of us to run Windows server and NT with 1 gig of ram; when Apple had no box that would hold this amount eons ago. Time is money; why fart around with impotent cute box with 1/2 to 1/ 4 the amount of ram? Today one can use a PC and CS4 use alot more ram than a Mac with photoshop; again time is money; clients have deadlines; having boatloads of ram matters with giant files. Maybe only wanting to view a clients inputs on a CD written with Vista; and the cute Imac 20" unit from 2006 will not read the disc; but a 5 year old XP box does. Its not all about cute cases.In dealing with the public files one really doesnt have the luxury of just accepting on file format or source; one has floppies; zip discs; jazz discs; maybe the images from a lawyer are in wordperfect and open perfectly with an older box.
     
  37. Mac.
     
  38. pc, quad core , 8 gig, 2,5 tb, lacie 22, vista 64 fast and stable, pleasure working with.
     
  39. Macbook
    and I love it!
     
  40. macpro 6gig of ram, raid, external drive, 2 monitor nec and apple, calibrated with i1display2, intuos tablet = production station.
    macbook pro unibody 15inch, 4 gig of ram, 320 gig HD 7200rpm, 24inch LCD, bamboo 6x8 = home / on location station.
     
  41. Mac is better! I use the iMac and Macbook.
     
  42. 24" iMac (older with 2gb ram) which runs CS4 and Lightroom 2 just fine. Handles video, but if I did more video I would need more power obviously. External 2TB WD via firewire 800 in Raid 1 configuration. I miss the esata from my PC, but firewire 800 is plenty fast.
    Used PCs for years, spent tons of my time maintaining, reformatting, babying them and hoping they wouldn't die. Ended up replacing them every three years anyway. I don't need multiple machines, just one fast one. Time is money, and the time I spent keeping my PCs working smoothly more than pays for my Macs.
    Kelly, if I had your situation I would agree that PC is cost effective. But I want one simple/powerful desktop that just works. I don't want to tinker with my computers or work with strange or old files or equipment. (been there, done that) Everything I need is on my Mac, I don't need to read a Vista CD or have multiple boxes doing different things. Simple is sweet. Nothing wrong with either decision, but make the decision that's right for you, not to make a point about your individuality. There are plenty of non-koolaide-drinking Mac owners that fully understood the choices and choose Mac. Plenty of koolaide guzzled by both camps... :)
     
  43. iMac 24" 3gb ram, many external drives close to 2 T.B's. Plus, my old pc NEC CRT 19" monitor that still works fine for a 2nd monitor.
     
  44. James; your beloved tax dollars ie the US government (if you are in the USA) has folks issuing bid packages that are often sent as CD's that will open on some machines; and not others. These include photos and drawings. Thus part of the printing cost is dealing with ill sized PDF's not to scale; fonts missing; CD's that cannot be read.
    Thus if you could not read the disc with a Mac; you might just ask for another CD; or punt and bid on other jobs.
    Thus the taxpayer has less bidders; the cost of the project is thus higher. The jackassery with ill discs is not free; ie means we all pay for this morrass of ill discs.
    The real SAD thing is if these discs were written on a dumb PC with a Walmart LG or Liteton burner with dumb bundled Free Nero; it would read on both Macs and PCs; whether a Win3.11 box; or Vista; or most all Macs too.
    I charge more for jobs that involve more time; ie futzing with weird discs; have fonts missing; or a bastard scale; I have to; it involves time.
    An old dream PC for Photoshop that cost many grand still is used for UPS labels; it only draws a few watts; something like 8; its just a 75Mhz Pentium; with back then an insane amount of ram 72 megs. It was bought when 16 megs of ram was 600 bucks; what photoshop cost. It started as a win3.11 machine; then it got Chicago/win95 a year later when it came out; later I upgraded it to win98se. Its never been reformated; its got the same 850 meg HDA from 15 years ago. The hassle if one could call it that was just Y2K; we added an ISA card to fake off the date; it was 35 bucks. Having a computer with little of no issues that "just works"; is a green 8 watts when active; and still works well after 15 years is a decent machine; it happens to just be a PC; an old photoshop dream machine that has several grand of ram; ie 72 megs. The file dates are mostly from 1993. Here I purposely like having a green low wattage computer on the UPS shipping table; it saves time; it drives a dumb printer; one can also print to it from another computer on the LAN. It doesnt even have any virus software either; its life is today like a toaster; its going to be used untils it dies. IF the HDA ever crashes I will probably rebuild it with a solid state HDA like I use with other older stuff. The HDA has been one for about 130000 hours now.
     
  45. POLL: PC or Mac (off topics slightly)
    mac
     
  46. There are certain things that aren't going to change that much regardless of which system you buy. I assume that the monitors, input devices and storage devices will be pretty much the same regardless of the "pizza box" you get. So what you have to decide is what you need in terms of your graphics card, memory, processor, etc.; essentially what are the guts of the computer. This includes the operating system. So you need to take a look at what you need out of the system and what computer will best meet those needs.
    All that being said I am a mac fan, having used one for over twenty years. A Mac Pro system, actually pretty much any Mac, is pretty well defined, lacking the variability in configuration that you find in, say, a Dell system. If you don't need that much power, the slots or internal storage then an iMac or MacBook Pro might serve you well. I use a 17" MacBook Pro, and attach a 21" NEC monitor when I'm doing photo/graphics work. My needs aren't as great as they once were (I'm not doing design anymore) and probably not as great as yours but the combination serves me well. The iMac can support an external monitor as well.
    If you are near an Apple Store I would recommend you stop by and take a look. You might think about attending one of their classes. Likely you won't learn anything new but it will give you and introduction to Macintosh work flow.
     
  47. POLL: PC or Mac (off topics slightly)
    mac
     
  48. This is my Photoshop, Capture NX2 workstation.
    Mac Pro dual quad core, 10GB RAM, NEC 2690WUXI calibrated with Spectraview software and EyeOne Pro, 2TB internal, 1TB external backup, Weibetech RTX100 external HD enclosure for hot swapping backup drives, and a Wacom Intuos tablet. If you need speed spend more on RAM and dedicate a fast HD for the OS and PS scratch disk.
    Whatever you do calibrate your monitor. Prior to this machine I had a circa 2000 Mac G4 dual 1GHz MDD with 2GB RAM. Needless to say it is too slow for processing files from 12-24MP DSLRs.
     
  49. PC, Q9400 with 8 gig RAM, 9800 GT video card, 12 500 gig hard drives. SONY monitors. These days, MAC is a PC with different software, internals are the same.
     
  50. PC - custom made, totally upgradeable, 1T external, readily accessible innards ;-)
     
  51. PC - Custom built by myself. Used the old parts to make a 2nd PC for the Living Room TV so now I have an HTPC as well... I could care less what people use, both paths lead to the same result image-editing-wise, but I will never go to Mac until they open up their OS to custom built PC's. I don't see that being part of their business plan anytime soon. I know there are hacked OSX copies available for this sort of thing, but I'd rather be on the up & up...
     
  52. PC. I also use a lot of "legacy" software that simply isn't available on a Mac. I also own an iMac but use the PC for all post processing and my website. My PC box is custom built (5 hard drives) by a local PC store. My understanding is that if you buy a brand name PC, it will be loaded with all kinds of "crapware" that is difficult to get rid of. If that's the case, the iMac operated perfectly (after answering a couple questions) right out of the box. The iMac also boots up and shuts down much more quickly than a PC,
     
  53. Mac. I love it.
     
  54. Well, I've read all the posts here with interest, and after having used both Mac and PC, I'll stick with PC running XP, until Microsoft gets the next OS right (Vista is a bit aggravating, but I hear Windows 7 is a dream).
    I HATE not having right mouse button functionality on a Mac. It's ridiculous. It harkens back to the old days of the putty-colored Apple II. Why would we need more than one mouse button? Well, we DO need more than one mouse button. Oh, don't give me that "well, you can get a Mac mouse with multiple buttons now" baloney. It should come from Apple with them. It's SO frustrating being used to a PC and having to sit down and wrestle with a Mac and it's weird functionality, just trying to do simple things without having to pull down menus and hunt for stuff. I can get things done so much faster with a right mouse click, and a TON of software makes use of that function. Oh, but not in the Mac world...
    Want to delete something on a Mac? Oh, we have to drag it to the trash can. I just want to select an item and hit delete, for cryin' out loud.
    I find that most folks who pick Macs know very little about the inner goings on with their computer. It's why they need the weird Mac paradigm of doing things to shield them from the harsh underpinnings of modern computing. Oh, we have to hide the file extension from our users; the dot and those extra three letters might confuse them!
    Just the other day, I had a situation where I had to help a poor, dumb Mac user download Fetch just so they could access our FTP site and download some image files. Using Windows Explorer, all you have to do is enter the FTP address in the URL bar at the top, and you can log right in. Not with a Mac. They simply don't have FTP functionality built in.
    I've known folks for years who swear by their Macs, but they can't for the life of them give me ANY compelling reason to get one myself. They just swear it's better. It's like people voting for Obama. Every one I've asked can't give me ONE good reason, can't name even a single thing he's ever done that makes him qualified to be president. He's just the popular guy. It's silly.
    Bottom line: there is NOTHING you can do on a Mac that I can't do on a PC cheaper and just as fast. And there's a TON of programs I can run on a PC that you probably can't run on a Mac, unless it's an Intel version. PC software and hardware still outnumbers Mac 10-1, and, the hardware is still cheaper by a long shot.
     
  55. Grew up on Mac's, switched to PC, almost switched back last year until I heard CS4 is only 64-bit for Windows. Currently, a custom built Vista 64 on quad-core, 8 gigs ram, 2 X Western digital 640's hdd's in RAID O for OS and applications. 2 X Western Digtal 250's in RAID O for scratch and Lightroom Library. 2 X Western Digital 750's for storage.
    A new Dell will have Vista or whatever they sell now. So drivers for the screens you now use may not work and there may or may not be updated Vista compatable drivers. Vista has become very picky about what you can install.
    Ronald, there should be a disclaimer under your posts. Vista is the most compatible OS that one can buy. Once one uses Ubuntu, (free, small footprint, even loads onto 12 year old PC's, updates all the time) you soon wonder what takes Mac so freaking long to come out with patches and updates or why they can't bend with new hardware, quicker. Tweaking Unix to run on a few pieces of hardware, Apple really has a small task to accomplish and do it quite poorly when all things are considered.
    However, the TCO (total cost of ownership) is typically MUCH LESS on a Mac. Check out eBay prices for a three year old Mac vs a three year old PC. And that's just one factor in TCO.
    Mike, in a few weeks for my P4 email machine, I'll order an i7 920, a $200 mobo, and $150 for 6 gigs of ram, open the case and install it one sunday morning. For $650 I'll have a great fast box for another three years. I'm not sure what I'd have to spend on a Mac to go that fast? But a lot, and I'd be stuck with it until I sold it for half the original amount. Not being able to do this hardware upgrade on a Mac is why I switched from Mac years ago. Going PC offers us more hardware and software choices for much less money. But I almost built an Octa-core Hackintosh last spring though :) and might switch back when Adobe goes 64-bit for Mac.
    Nice machine, CG.
     
  56. I HATE not having right mouse button functionality on a Mac. It's ridiculous. It harkens back to the old days of the putty-colored Apple II. Why would we need more than one mouse button? Well, we DO need more than one mouse button. Oh, don't give me that "well, you can get a Mac mouse with multiple buttons now" baloney. It should come from Apple with them. It's SO frustrating being used to a PC and having to sit down and wrestle with a Mac and it's weird functionality, just trying to do simple things without having to pull down menus and hunt for stuff. I can get things done so much faster with a right mouse click, and a TON of software makes use of that function. Oh, but not in the Mac world...​
    Wow. Makes you wonder about the rest....
     
  57. Vista is the most compatible OS that one can buy.
    ...compatible with what?
    My day job is computer programmer. Making our software install properly on Vista has been a freaking nightmare . Personally I run XP on all my machines, even my development machines at work. Incidentally, you can still get XP on a Dell (select the "Vista with Downgrade to XP" option).
     
  58. Steve, not that its really important but;
    1_yes you have a rigth click on a mac if you simply enable the feature on the control panel, you even have it on the new macbook pro + with 2 finger you can rotate, zoom, slide a la iphone style.
    2_also you can simply select a folder and hit cmd + delete to send the file to the trash.
    3_any new mac from the past 2-3 years come with a 6-7 function button on it..not because the mouse look slick that its mean you do not have button : )
    I think as many unimformed people on both side, people just rant about untrue fact...and Steve just prove that. Its OK to to prefer a Mac or PC..once in photoshop the difference are almost non existent, the pc is cheaper, the mac is simpler to use..both have good point.
    Im a Mac fan for the past 23 years, and i know i spend way more money on my Mac vs what i can get for way less on the same kinjd of PC..i just dont like the PC interface itself and the learning curve to feel comfortable with one. It doestn mean i will rant about the same old virus and incompatibility concept that people always bring.
     
  59. I use both Mac OSX and PC (XP) on my Macbook Pro. I prefer the Mac operating system by a very long margin. All my photographic stuff is done on the Mac side.... I also use Nikon (mostly) but I don't particularly care if people use PC or Canon...I don't understand people who slag off others' choices. I certainly did not invent the Mac operating system or the Nikon camera. That I made a personal decision to choose them or how much I paid for them does not say anything about me more than what kind of tea I drink and how much I paid for it.
    Anyhow computers and cameras are tools....Do not let your tools become your masters....(Confucius said)...Let the photos speak!
     
  60. ...compatible with what?
    Old hardware. Hardware that was released before Vista. That runs old software that was released before Vista.
    My day job is computer programmer. Making our software install properly on Vista has been a freaking nightmare .
    Hmm. Everything that I own that was written years ago for XP 32 loads fine under emulation on Vista 64. Even crappy Nikon software that wouldn't run on XP-64. Not sure what the problem is if you are starting afresh?
    Windows 7 is even better. And so it should. I just loaded W7 Beta 2200 onto an ancient P4 with 1.5 gigs of ram this weekend. Runs way faster than XP and is more than adequate for youtube watching and word doc's. This means this (10 year old?) box can now take...four(?) different Windows OS's. Who knows how far back I can install old software.
     
  61. I prefer PC over Mac/Apple, and all for the same reason; I want control!​
    So, what is it, exactly, that one can "control" on a Windows machine that cannot be controlled on a Mac?
     
  62. I was PC from 1990 to 2004 when I bought a Mac for Design school. I found it to be a more dependable/predictable machine and still have it today plus a iMac 24" with 1.5GB ext.
    If your PC is problem free and you never curse it out (lol) there is no need to switch, otherwise it's time to free your mind!
     
  63. Regarding cost, I've been a member of a team developing hardware/software computer specifications for a large dual-platform institution for well over a decade. We use Dell systems on the Windows side and, obviously, Apple systems.
    The members of the team include those who are primarily Windows users and those who are primarily Mac users, and a fair number use both systems. We specify comparable systems on the two platforms, which means that they have essentiall the same size HD, same amount of RAM, same size monitor, same ports, same basic productivity software, etc.
    The costs of the Macs is very definitely not higher than that of the Windows equivalents from a major vendor such as Dell. In some categories the Apple solution is typically a bit less expensive, in others it alternates between the two systems. While I can't disagree with the idea that you can buy off-brand Windows boxes or even construct your own for lower cost, unless you are the sort who finds that approach appealing the overall costs of the two systems will generally be quite similar.
     
  64. So, what is it, exactly, that one can "control" on a Windows machine that
    cannot be controlled on a Mac?

    This isn't a very well thought out question. But then again, "taking control" is niether an elquent way of getting ones point across about the access a windows user has to the bois and registry compared to Unix. The very thing that makes Mac's strong, stable, and resiliant to virues and spyware is that you can't "get in there" and make a muck of things. This, for some, is a blessing or a curse. The very fact that anyone can write an .exe for windows (and having them execute without permission), is also a blessing or a curse.
     
  65. The costs of the Macs is very definitely not higher than that of the Windows equivalents from a major vendor such as Dell. In some categories the Apple solution is typically a bit less expensive, in others it alternates between the two systems. While I can't disagree with the idea that you can buy off-brand Windows boxes or even construct your own for lower cost, unless you are the sort who finds that approach appealing the overall costs of the two systems will generally be quite similar.
    Dan, a Dell XPS with an i7 920, western digital 640 (fastest 7200 rpm drive) and 6 gigs of ram can be bought for $1000. Can you please tell me what Mac has comparable performance for the same money?
     
  66. Patrick;
    I feel the same way as Steve does about our 20" iMacs mouse; I feel like its a time warp backwards 2 decades compared the the useable two button with thumb wheel optical mouse on this 1999 pentium III with win2000.
    Our 2006 Imacs mouse rockers or pivots on its bum/ass/rear. The two side buttons or what ever they are seem to be duds; or sometimes work to grab stuff.
    The gain is wonky; one has the to move the mouse physically ALOT compared to the movement on the screen one day; the next day it is tolerable but one still needs giant workspace.
    Ours is like the gain or ratio of hand movement to screen movement varies.
    Somedays one can move the Imacs mouse 1 foot and it moves 3 inches on the screen; other times it is closer to a PC in useablity.
    It is an optical mouse; I have tried mousepads; cardboard with roughness; wood; many items to ses if its a reflectance issue.
    The goofy mouse is one of the main reason our Mac fails flat on its face in the human interface arena.The old tombstone 30SE was alot easier to use.
    I would rather retouch a photo with our dual 333Mhz pentium II than our Imac 20" 2 ghz unit; its way quicker for me in the mouse area; how to save files; how to even find anything.
    Maybe the issue is most games are used with PC's and thus the mouse is thus a better human interface to use.
    Maybe the OSX 10.4 on our Imac 20" unit has the mouse turned mostly off; or in a retarded counter intuitive mode; or its setup to give ones arm a workout.
    One of our old printers runs a graphical interface under pure DOS; it has the mouse.exe driver. One box has a track ball; another has a PC mouse; both are lightyears more useable than our imac 20" unit.
    We bought another mac mouse for the imac and it still is a pain to use; thus it is either a mac hardware/software issue; or some weird gain setting that vary to drive one bonkers.
    It is interesting How I can play Ultimate Tournament 2004 against a friend 2500 miles away on a dumb PC; and not even think about the mouse; one uses both buttons and moves the mouse with zero thought.
    Then with the imac 20" unit its a constant frustration over simple stuff; maybe the 20" means one has to move the mouse 20" sometimes and others not!
     
  67. In order of use:
    Darkroom in the basement for 99% of photography work.
    Linux Ubuntu 8.10 on an HP Notebook for the internet and most digital photo stuff.
    XP on a Dell Tower with CS3 for important work. (used once)
    Wacom Intuos3
     
  68. Used both. Now only using a MacBook Pro with Windows installed. I write business and accounting systems that are cross-platform. All my work is done within Mac OSX, Windows is started and used only for testing purposes.
    For photography (hobby) it's purely Mac, from post-processing to archiving and printing. I also designed a software for managing our local camera club competitions; importing photos from Members, slide show, judging, managing points...
    As a professional who consults numerous business clients using both platforms, I have no hesitation in choosing the platform I want for my own needs.
     
  69. Both, but prefer the Mac
     
  70. Windows is coming out with a new OS. I haven't read all the answers here, so forgive any double posts. I would wait to see what the new OS has to offer.
    Vista is a no go in my opinion. Unless you're working or play a lot of video games on your computer. I think vista was more of a "let's see what works" OS, in preparation for this new OS which I believe is referred to as Windows 7. As for now, I'm all Mac, and will always be. But I do respect Windows, and Windows is always worth a look. I sure don't miss getting a virus, or having to deal with all the software to prevent them. As you may know, Macs have been able to stay ahead of all virus. Basically you don't need anything extra to keep a virus out. The OS is too far up the trail to be caught. They can't break a Mac:)
     
  71. Kelly, are you sure the mouse is the problem? Know many photographers that do a lot of work on macs and seem to do fine using a pen and a mouse. Don't hear them whinging.
     
  72. Macs are now Intel based. A Mac IS a PC.
    Different horses for different courses. Macs can't be beat for graphic aplications. It's what they've always been successful at.
    However, Macs aren't made for the commercial environment. Windows and other PC based OS were using TCP/IP while Apple were messing about with Apple Talk. Also, how do you write custom software for Macs? Tools are available, but it's a damn site easier with the PC. PC OS (Windows, Linux) are designed for the enterprise.
    Getting staff that are trained to look after Macs is more expensive than for PCs. And they'll have to have other expertise also (Unix, Windows). Where does that IP address for your networked Mac come from? That's right - another Intel based operating system.
     
  73. Mac here.
    A Mac IS a PC.
    If PC stands for personal computer, they always have been PCs, with OS X they just have a really fine Operating system in OS X.
    However, Macs aren't made for the commercial environment.
    I'll pass that along to the several businesses I know ( not graphic designers or photographers) that are Mac OS X based and have been for years - -an Aluminum mill, soem archiotecture firms, some architecture firms. . I am sure they'll be interested to hear that and will immediately dump their stable , smoth running Macs for PCs for which they will have to hire multiple system administrators.
     
  74. 2 quick story for fun;
    1_years ago when little floppy exist i was working in a service bureau full of mac, only 1 pc in case. A guy came, and try to put is floppy plastic first in the mac..after several attemp, a lot of cursing, and of course saying how appl is so dumb, bad machine etc.. i simply took is floppy out of is hand gently, turn it and put it metal first in the reader..on my surprise, the guy didtn say thanks, but he ask why on a Mac thing have to be so different!?
    2_a graphic designer that was on a PC and use Corel sat down on a mac station and open is document in Illustrator, send it to print and i gave him is print that was cut from at least 1-2inch..the guy ask why and i answer that probably is document was too long? He told me that he have a 18inh document, and he was use to print on a 11x17 sheet and had never had any problem printing that from is PC..i told him that this was not a mac / pc problem, but a physic one as 18inh couldtn fit at 100% in a 17inch sheet..after several minute of fighting i gave up, he send 5 more print, all cut, i bill them, and ask the guy to put 90% instead when he hit the OK button. All is images where on the paper, and he realize that maybe is Corel was set to auto fit...
    2 story (and i can go a long way with those) that just show you that when people are use to a certain type of hardwadre they make stupid mistake and bring stupid argument that doestn hold. They can come from mac or pc, its not important.
    Im really happy this morning that after years of PC vs Mac, people are now down to right / left click mouse as a new reason for going with a PC! Maybe before 2010 whe will stop having those idiot debate..after comparing wired size, bouncy keyboard, desk space, monitor height of course : ) LOL.
    _______________
    On a side note, serious gamer dont normally use regular mouse (if i take my gamer friend as example) they have all a huge device with 18 programmable button and a huge red wheel and keep saying that this is the ferrari of all mouse!..and serious photographer or amateur i know that do photo editing dont use a mouse either..whe (i put myself in there) have wacom tablet and exclusively use the pen to work..in fact i didtn use a mouse for the past 8-9 years anywhere; word, firefox, photoshot and other. It is so much more efficient, and the good thing is it work on PC and Mac ; )
    _______________
    by simply going in your preference panel you coul see if the mouse speed is set to the rigth place, and as all optical mouse being on a white . shinny, glass surface will affect is speed..make sure you are using it on a regular surface..and when you move a inch the arrow on screen should move as fast on the monitor as well.
     
  75. PC, 4x2.1Mh AMD Phenom,250 Gb drive, ATI Sapphire 256Mb with Windows XP.
    All for 800 euro. And some older PC's.
     
  76. I use both, a 'vintage' (four years old) dual processor AMD-based PC and a MAC PRO, fairly well loaded with memory and HDs. The Mac crashes as often as the PC, perhaps more. They both have their advantages and disadvantages. I'm not a 'fanboy' of either. There are some programs that I use that won't work with a MAC and forget the argument of using VM Fusion or Parallels and running XP on your MAC...if you're thinking of using some of the Windows-based video editing programs such as Vegas or Pinnacle. They won't recognize the firewire output from your digital video source running on a MAC! So much for that. And if you want to burn a BlueRay disc directly from a video editing program, it's a lot easier with PC based software.
    All that said, the MAC is a definite go-to when I need to stitch multiple 140 meg RAW files from a SONY a900 in CS4. My PC would croak in the attempt. It takes about five minutes on the MAC but it gets the job done.
    I can use either to spool to my printers while I'm doing other tasks on the others. When I hear the statement by some MAC owners "I never looked back", I have to chuckle. Perhaps they were never really looking forward.
     
  77. You want a headache, get a PC. You want to work effortlessly, with out headache, . . . Mac. I started digital darkroom with PC, driven me crazy, and the guy who helped me, we constantly had an argument. Switched to MAC, my friend departed me for two years, then one day he come back. "Hi, I bought a mac -mini!" . . . . good for you. . . . . . Then, . . . . " I bought a G5 used", . . . . Two mounts later, he said; "I hate PCs but I have to do, because I making a living, repairing massaging peoples PCs. Since I have a MAC, years, I just using them. Never any issues. Own a G4, a Mac Pro, and an old iBook G4, 12", I am writing this letter. Witch has been badly abused by my grand daughter. No problemo, comrades. Still running after 5 or 6 years.
    Have a nice day; Bela
    Cheers; Bela
     
  78. PC. Both Dell. Desktop & 17" laptop
     
  79. The mac vs. pc debate is as bad as the Canon/Nikon debate. Its useless. Its brand loyalty to the extreme. Ive used pcs my whole life and never had the problems that people blame pcs for. Ive used macs and they are good too. My opinion is that i can get better performance at a MUCH cheaper price in a pc, and I have. 1.5 TB hard drive, 8 GB ram, Phenom Quad core processor, ATI dedicated graphics. 22 inch hi def screen, and if thats not big enough I plug my HDMI into the 42 inch LCD tv. under 1300. mac cant touch that ( with anything as of my purchase date ). If you like macs, cool, if you like pcs, then use them. Whatever gets the job done for you.
     
  80. Ubuntu
    Although it works perfect, somtimes I feel like going back to Fedora.
    From my point of view, WinXP is full with flaws and Mac platform is too restricted.
     
  81. This is actually a pretty easy question.
    What you need to ask yourself is:
    How much do I want to pay for a computer and
    How much time to I want to spend playing video games
    verses
    How much time to I want to spend being productive?
    If you want to play video games (like me!) and are on a tight budget, get a PC. If you want to be productive and use software like Photoshop, etc and want a really nice machine, get a Mac. BTW, the Macintosh monitors are EXCELLENT, even if you have a PC.
     
  82. If you want to be productive and use software like Photoshop, etc and want a
    really nice machine, get a Mac

    How am I supposed to be more productive on a slower machine?
     
  83. Macbookpro!
     
  84. Nothing at all against Macs, but I use a PC and see no need to swicth.
     
  85. Couple Windows PCs and several laptops, all served via a central Linux (Fedora Core) server with RAID drives. On my primary PC I have 4GB of memory, but running 32-bit Windows XP currently so it actually uses up to 3GB. Linux hosts a SAMBA & Windows domain server, so no matter which Windows machine you log on to you see the same files.
    If you want to do photo editing, particularly with PS, then the applications work essentially the same on PC versus Mac, except some keyboard changes and some differences in how the panels look. The kicker for me is that equivalently performant hardware is always way more expensive for Macs, even though I have always admired Macs for their OS, and even more since they went Unix-based. I agree with everybody that says Macs are more controllable (Unix), but if you are having to control anything on either PC or Mac just because you want to use it for normal usage for editing graphics or documents or browsing, something is seriously wrong.
    Nobody in my family plays video games on computers or watches videos on them, including my school-age kids (there are video consoles and DVD/audio/video systems dedicated for that). We use computers only for image work, documents (MS Office) and browsing the internet. We use a firewall only on our internet router, and use Firefox (not IE) as a browser. We are careful about what applications we install on our machines. We have never had virus issues, nor do any of our Windows XP machines ever crash.
    Summary: PCs and Macs, either will do the job just fine, get the one that you like better and fits your budget. For me , the extra cost of Mac HW isn't worth the slightly better UI.
     
  86. stp

    stp

    Mac Pro at home and Mac Book Pro for on the road. Two internal Raid 1 drives and two external Raid 1 drives (plus one internal and one external non-Raid drives). I've used PC and Mac platforms, and the Mac is so very much easier and "user-friendly."
     
  87. "The mac vs. pc debate is as bad as the Canon/Nikon debate. Its useless. Its brand loyalty to the extreme." Joshua-you are so right. I have watched the Canon/Nikon 'debate' unfold since I got into 35mm photography in 1970 and it really is pathetic-they are both good brands and each has its own characteristics including positives and negatives. Now, this has, as you said, extended into the PC/Mac 'debate' and again, each has its own characteristics including positives and negatives; with cameras and computers, check out which one meets your requirements the most and feels, looks, handles, etc. better and go with it. To do otherwise is to fall victim to marketing. Look at this poll-all Natalie said was "I'm curious what everyone uses at home, PC or Mac." and a number of people went on the attack; that's just pathetic. cb :)
     
  88. Ouch, a loaded question..
    IN a perfect world (which it isn't) any computer system would be reliable
    for any project and there would be no such thing as a virus and all
    computer operating systems would be perfect from the get-go.
    I currently have two Macs, a G5 iMac purchased used and rebuilt
    from the local Apple reseller, and an older however still utterly
    reliable G4 iBook.
    Also have an 8088 running Linux for ham radio applications.
    And a very old Compag Presario laptop for those applications that
    will only operate on a Prehistoric Computer under the
    Microsoft banner.
    Reason for my Macs? Quark! My background is journalism,
    and writing regular monthly columns on a number of subjects.
    My editor(s) prefer copy ready to paste.
    I have in the last few years sold all my digital photo gear, much
    prefer colour slides (usually K64 if it can be sent across
    the border for processing without customs problems)
    or Fuji Sensia films.
    My Macs serve me well, all were purchased
    with extended warranties and unlike previous
    Mac purchases only see the inside of a shop
    when I want them upgraded or given a tidy.
    Now as to monetary cost, the Apple product
    with extended warranty is more expensive!
    However if the operating system you are currently using
    is good for you, stay there.
    If you want to change operating systems, borrow a friend's
    Mac for a day or so. Similar; yet different, oh,
    and no viruses from the internet usually.
    And although the speed demons keep changing preferences
    what you purchase often comes down to how comfortable you
    are with the software programs you use.
    Me? I like Macs, and can use other platforms with ease.
     
  89. pmj

    pmj

    Power Mac G5 2GHz dual-core, 4.5 GB memory, 160 + 200 GB disk (+500 GB Lacie Firewire 800 for backups), Apple 23" display, Eye-One Display 2. Epson R2880 printer. Adobe Photoshop CS2, Apple Aperture 2.
    Note: I use a PC at work all day to write software in Delphi, Oracle and PHP. Runs Windows XP, but I haven't a clue about the specs of the machine. It works just fine and I'm happy with it, but I'm at least as happy to use my Mac when I'm at home.
     
  90. Used a PC in the corporate world, but when I retired I switched to an IMAC with a 20-inch screen. IMHO this is so much better than a PC.
     
  91. Our retoucher who owns/loves a G3 and G4 and a mac laptop; and tolerates a XP box at home said the Imac's 20" Mouse is wonky; weird; hard to controll compared to a G4. He is a almost pure Mac person; Mac decals on the car; ipods; hates PC's; worships Macs and preaches how they can bake buiscuits and boil water too.
    Thus we bought a brand new mouse and it still acts bizzare; gain varies like driver is hosed or wonky. One can find a great surface for a PC's optical mouse and our Mac mouse still has "issues".
    The retoucher talked to Apple a year ago; they mentioned to get a new mouse; this didnt fix the issue. Since the old retoucher we had has drank enough Apple Koolaid and wore Apple logos; owns 3 Apple computers I would suspect they sor to now something about the Apple type mouse movements.
    My recourse is to ship the entire Imac 20" unit to a repair depot; or live with the poor human interface issue. Our Imac 20" unit does have issues. It is not used much anymore; our mac retoucher moved away; the box is way too unproductive for me to use. We basically bought the cute Imac for the retoucher who worked for 6 months than moved across country; now it is just a cute dodo on a desk.
    If one by mistake places a customers CD thats written by Vista in the non compatable mode ; the CD doesnt come out for many minutes; and one cannot eject either; thus one wastes time and has to eat crow. It is an embarrisment; one has to wait 3 tp 10 minutes before one gets the customers CD back; then one tries a VISTA or XP box to read the images to be printed.
    Thus one learns to NOT try reading a customers unknown CD with the 20" Imac; because if its a Vista disc; it just doesnt work; it is headache. Thus the 20" imac is never now used to peak at an unknown customers Cd's/DVD's; often if a VISTA disc one has to explain how one screwed up; assuming that the Imac could read the disc; while the imac studies the CD and spits it out 3 to 10 minutes later. It a lame amatuer toy; it wastes CUSTOMERS time.
    rOne of our ancient rip boxes requires an eps file on a CD for its input; the imacs settings only allow one session of burning; Nero on our PC's has multisession. When I mentioned this on another thread a mac user mentioned to fork out cash to buy toast; or another mac burner program that has multisession. I can drag or copy the files to a PC and burn them too; a couple of times it just made a link and the PC burner was trying to burn files over the LAN. In yet another thread somebody mentioned that a multisession burn is in OSX 10.4; but it is turned off by default.
    In Floppies the original tombstome MAC/Mac had a variable speed floppy I worked on; its a different type of format than a PC; the drives RPM varies with radii it is a constant RPM on a PC.
    Receiving CD's DVD's and thumb drives on a PC always not a pure beautiful thing either. Some thumb drive brands want to alway inject the dumb U3 program into your computer and ask your to reboot; in more dasdardly cases it auto reboots if one doesnt intercept the prompt. The dumb U3 crap is doesnt require a reboot; but it injects BS into the temp area; even if the same person brings in teh same thumb drive 1 hour later. It is like the U3 manure doesnt stick. Our imac 20" unit will read some of theses; and not others. In some dumb CD's they cannot be read unless the CD injects monkey poop; ie a Roxio driver; then one can read the damn CD. It was unreadable on the Imac; the Apples prevents the injection of horse manure.
    In olden times it was consider very rude to create auto run programs that inject BS/crap one to ones computer; today I guess some folks think it is cute.
    Thus to deal *with the public* one gets a mess of goofy stuff; sometimes a virus or trojan two. In the Imac case it just will not read some inputs. The PC/mac thats on the dirty side of the moat; the customers side has a Mac that reads a subset of inputs; or a PC that reads about all but is living more dangerously. For a pure mac koolaid drinker; one might just tell the Vista customers or weird thumb drive varaints to shove off; go vist another person. Or one can use a PC to read these peskier inputs; and not loose customers.
     
  92. Power PC G5 2Ghz dual core Mac, 12Gb RAM, 1.75TB onboard and external storage. 24" Mac Cinema Display.
     
  93. The 20" imac here is a great unit accept for OUR mouse issue; plus how it holds a VISTA CD hostage for 3 to 10 minutes before spitting it back out; so we can read it on a Vista or XP box as a print input with a deadline.
    In amateur work this delay is probably ok; folks have no deadlines; no customers. You can tell your friend you cannot read the CD; or lie and say it was never burned. There is NO loss of income if the friend has to wait 10 minutes; NO loss of income if you cannot process your buddies Ebay; cat or sunset images.
    Dealing with the publics image inputs for printing; shooting; retouching is NOT so Mr Clean; customers get ticked off if their grubby; dirty; scratched mystery CD is not read instantly. The LAY public does all sorts of goofy things. Some shoot with a 3 megapixel camera; print a 8x10 on a dumb cheap inkjet; then flatbed scan at a zillion dpi. The resultant TIFF file is bigger than a CD; its sometimes a gigabyte; then they burn it with Vista in a mode that cannot be read with the 20" imac; win2000; but by some XP boxes; and all Vista boxes. Thus one gets a jackass giant bloaded useless file; readable on a subset of Macs and PC's; plus to view with ease requires a 64Bit os and CS4 to peak and several 1 gig files or crop them quickly.
     
  94. The 20" imac here is a great unit accept for OUR mouse issue; plus how it holds a VISTA CD hostage for 3 to 10 minutes before spitting it back out; so we can read it on a Vista or XP box as a print input with a deadline.
    In amateur work this delay is probably ok; folks have no deadlines; no customers. You can tell your friend you cannot read the CD; or lie and say it was never burned. There is NO loss of income if the friend has to wait 10 minutes; NO loss of income if you cannot process your buddies Ebay; cat or sunset images.
    Dealing with the publics image inputs for printing; shooting; retouching is NOT so Mr Clean; customers get ticked off if their grubby; dirty; scratched mystery CD is not read instantly. The LAY public does all sorts of goofy things. Some shoot with a 3 megapixel camera; print a 8x10 on a dumb cheap inkjet; then flatbed scan at a zillion dpi. The resultant TIFF file is bigger than a CD; its sometimes a gigabyte; then they burn it with Vista in a mode that cannot be read with the 20" imac; win2000; but by some XP boxes; and all Vista boxes. Thus one gets a jackass giant bloaded useless file; readable on a subset of Macs and PC's; plus to view with ease requires a 64Bit os and CS4 to peak and several 1 gig files or crop them quickly.
     
  95. The 20" imac here is a great unit accept for OUR mouse issue; plus how it holds
    a VISTA CD hostage for 3 to 10 minutes before spitting it back out...

    Kelly, is this a CD burned with Vista's in house CD burner, or with Nero? I pop my Vista burned CD/DVD's into many Mac's a month and have never had a problem with Mac's reading Vista/Nero disc's.
     
  96. Dell PC at home, 2GB RAM, 200 GB internal drive and several high capacity external drives. Dec. 2004 brand new. It's getting old.
    I doubt I will EVER want a Mac.
    I am going to get a new PC this year.
     
  97. Kelly, please make your retoucher happy and get him a wacom tablet : )
     
  98. PC,2G RAM,2600 COR to Due CPU,500G internal HD,500 Maxtore External HD,all In Wonder 9600 ATI SVGA Card, with 22Inch ViewSonic Monitor,
    All with the cost of 800$
    running XP SP3, PSCS4 ,and any program you could dream of,about 1 cent per program,you Know it is the third world,where copy protection rights is irrelavent what so ever, a single 9 Giga DVD with more than 1000 programs can cost you 1.5$ exactly,and the whole CS4 complete suit costing only 1$.
    please do not surprise,it is the only advantage of being a third world country,
    I personaly prefer to pay the 600$ for CS4,and to live in a first world country.
    just want you to know,with my regards to every one.
     
  99. iMac 24, 500GB HDD, 4GB RAM, with 2TB offline storage. Lenovo (windows) laptop for logging in to my work network because of my job - network administrator - and an HP laptop and Gateway All-in-one PC at work. I don't need a personal laptop but if I did it would be a MacBook Pro. In fact, my retirement (7-1/2 years to go!) computers will be whatever iMac is available and whatever MacBook Pro is available using the current (at that time O/S.
    I read in one comment the user wants control and implies Macs don't have it. I have deduced from that comment the user must be working with DOS because Windows is simply not a manually operated O/S. Yes, you can work from the command line but you can do that with any computer. Also, Macs make it much easier to "do for yourself" than the newest MS O/S and Windows 7 looks like it will insist on even more automation.
    As to having to buy new software, you have to remember Macs come with a huge amount of software for non professionals. Also, there is a lot of software that can be converted by the manufacturer from Windows to Leopard. Adobe does that for PC folks taking up the Mac life. I'm sure others do to.
    I use Nikon Capture NX2 and as soon as ACDSee is ported to Mac this summer I will resume using it on my Mac. Right now, I use ACDSee on the laptop when I need it, which isn't often.
    Considering the software available and the build quality of the machines there is no way I would ever consider actually buying a PC.
     
  100. I don't think this is as important or even interesting a question as the OP probably does. It's kind of like asking if you use Canon or Nikon. Me, I use Pentax. So what?
    I have both PCs and Macs here. Have used Macs since 1985 and write several times a year for Macworld. Of course I like Macs and once upon a time, Macs really had a major advantage for creative pros. But I now do my photo processing on Windows machines. But that day has past. Some of the top photographers in the world use Macs - and (as far as I can tell) an even greater number use PCs. I myself don't see any very significant differences using Lightroom 2 on a Mac or a PC. My primary windows machine (a Dell Latitude D820) is faster right now; perhaps if I get a new Mac this year I'll switch and use the newer machine. With Lightroom I'll be able to do that pretty easily. But I can still get more bang for my buck buying PC hardware and I'm not sure what I'll do next time. I don't want to use Aperture: don't like being part of Apple's captive audience, and Aperture just doesn't seem to have any major advantages over Lightroom. Most of my clients use PCs.
    Does it matter what OS you use? I don't think so. If you like Macs, use Macs, or vice versa. But can you tell which photos you see were processed on PCs or Macs? I rather doubt it. Whatever works for you.
    Will
     
  101. Garrison' RE:
    The 20" imac here is a great unit accept for OUR mouse issue; plus how it holds
    a VISTA CD hostage for 3 to 10 minutes before spitting it back out...

    Kelly, is this a CD burned with Vista's in house CD burner, or with Nero? I pop my Vista burned CD/DVD's into many Mac's a month and have never had a problem with Mac's reading Vista/Nero disc's.
    These CD's and some DVD's are written by customers; or even the US government with computers that have the Vista OS. The folks who I personally know do not use Nero on these Vista boxes; its the canned burner program that came with their Vista computer. Thus it is either Microsoft's burner program; or the OEM computer makers program. There are several differnet setting for th UDF file system; it if is 2.5 even XP cannot read a VISTA disc. Many folks just drag and drop on a blank CD in VISTA and really do not know what variant of UDF FILE SYSTEM they are making.
    Does Vista use a file system when burning CD's that XP can't read?
     
  102. I first ran into this issue with reading VISTA discs when VISTA first came out; it is an old issue for us; now 2 years old..There must be several flavors/variants of the UDF file system; and exceptions too. Note the weasel words of "might not be compatable" in the UDF variant table in the link I posted. The jackaasses at Microsoft who created this incompatablity issue should be keel hauled; tared and feathered; it wastes time and money. With dumb Nero a CD can be made to read on both mac and PC's of almost all ages; one variant of VISTAs burner only is readable with VISTA
     
  103. "By default, Windows Vista uses Live File System to incrementally add files to your CD. Live File System is a file storage system that can be used to create CDs and DVDs. Discs formatted with Live File System allow you to copy files to the disc at any time, instead of copying (burning) them all at once. However such disks are not readable by many CD / DVD players and are also not readable on Linux."


    How To Burn Cross-Platform Readable CD’s in Windows Vista


    Thus by DEFAULT; Vista creates a jackass bastard CD that most of the world cannot read.
    Maybe Windows 7 can create a bastard CD that only Windows 7 can read; and VISTA cannot.
    Thus the deep hatred of VISTA is in part be creating CD's that a subset of folks can read; sometimes only a Vista box; other times XP too.
    Just think; government projects are be mailed on with these bastard discs; contractors often cannot read them; thus there are less bids; thus the projects costs more.
     
  104. So Kelly, if you know this now, do you not ask your customers what they burned on? It seems if this is such a problem, that would be an upfront question whenever getting a disc. Sort of like, how many copies do you want? Standard info.
     
  105. Hi Barry;
    Thats an interesting question.
    In theory one can change the way folks do things!
    In theory the person who physicaly brings in the disc is the author of the images/files; and burned the CD.
    In reality for runner might say they all got new Vista machines and they hate them; all I know is this print job is File number 123.007 I think for Joe Jones Attorney. One calls up the attorney and gets his legal secretary; the CD is from the opposing side; the CD is from their crime scene unit; murder case images.
    For alot of printing; we just get a client's CD and it is just brought over by a runner or by mail; or they got the CD from the Government; a Photographer; a set of house plans with a signed release for X copies; or it is form an Architects firm for a contractor (Joe Six pack/Joe Plummer)
    . Or it is from another print shop thats all Mac's; they cannot read the disc; I read it and reburn a Mac friendly disc for them. Or it is a wedding photographers (Or Uncle Bob?)'s CD that some grandparents cannot read; their daughters wedding was 2500 miles away; the disc has no phone number for them to call; or even way to order a few prints.
    Or the CD is from a cocky client that has a full brain and has NO tolerance to hear how their CD is not readable on most machines; as one said "read my lips; I am a pro; I will take my work elsewhere to somebody who knows what they are doing". The same chap might also wonder why his/her images are being passed over at a stock agency; or by an editor; or by a newspaper.
    In reality on has very little influence in changing the way folks burn a CD I receive; or even somebody far removed by several clients; or in the deep bowels of the government.
    In printing many folks want to know what it costs to "print from disc" and one doesnt even have the CD yet; they dont know what size they want; or what natural size the CD's images are; or the quantity of images/files; or even the file format; or even if it is an image file.
    Sometimes I jsut get a CD because others cannot read it; it might be Walmart; Walgreens; Another full print shop; their own computer; or a local photographer just getting into digital who thinks all CD's are the same; but their beloved Imac cannot read a friends CD.
     
  106. So Mac might make fun of my look alike Bill Gates guy in thier commercials....but....
    My Ford still rocks your Chevy!
     
  107. PC, running Vista x64 with Photoshop CS4 in native 64bit.
    8Gb of Ram, Intel E8400 Dual processor running at 3.8 Ghz.
    Wacom Intuos 3 A5 wide tablet - trying to figure out the best way to use this in a dual monitor setup.
    4 x 320Gb HD's, plus a random assortment of external drives.
    Dual graphics cards running a HP LP2475w 24" monitor and a Samsung 22" 225BW monitor.
    As for the Mac vs PC debate, it's a tired one which I does not interest me; either platform is good.
    Although I shudder at the cost of the Mac Pro line, thinking what hardware I could cobble together in Windows land for the same money.
    I chose PC because I like to tinker and tweak things 'under the bonnet'.
     
  108. Build your own PC. It’s basically tab A in slot B. Go online, do some research. Order your hardware from reputable suppliers. Purchase a good case and power supply and as new and better hardware such as CPU’s, mother boards, memory, video cards, and hard drives, becomes available, up grade. Do not buy proprietary machines like Dell. Proprietary machines require proprietary hardware and your choices are severally limited…as in Mac. You get a lot more, as in A LOT more bang for your buck. And purchase a descent printer that will handle 16 bit ProPhoto RGB printing.
    As for monitors, research the best monitors for photo editing…google it.
    And if you are a serious digital photographer, your camera and lenses are only two thirds of the tool set. In fact, without a computer system geared to photo editing and printing, the camera and lens are pretty much nothing.
     
  109. Not one Mac user who's posted here has given me any compelling reason (not one) to leave the PC world and shell out the bucks for a Mac. All I've read are platitudes and opinions.
    Again, bottom line is that there is little difference between a modern PC with recent processor and plenty of RAM, compared with a comparably equipped Mac, save for the operating system and the price tag. You basically have two different personal computers that look different, but do the same thing. Only the PC does it WAAAAAY cheaper. PC wins.
    Then, compare the differences on the software end of things. You have two different OS's, one works with 10% of the software available on the market, and the other works with the other 90%. PC wins.
    There is NOTHING you can do on a Mac that I cannot do on a PC. I can run Quark, Photoshop, ACDSee, Lightroom, Illustrator, Flash, InDesign, or whatever I want, and it works just as well, and does exactly the same thing (no, I can't run Aperture, but there are plenty of other solutions to do the same thing). And, there are TONS of other programs and applications I can use that Mac owners can't. PC wins.
     
  110. Steve, maybe you where too blind to appreciate the fact that some Mac user here where just saying exactly what you said, without trying to convince the OP... The strange thing is some PC user in a thread like this always seem to need to convince that for cheaper, for a faster, to play game...you NEED a PC. I agrre with you Steve without a fight; for me i decide to choose a Mac because this is what i know best and feel comfortable with. I would appreciate buying it for less money, but i not ready to get a PC at 50% anyway.
    The point is not to get a cheaper faster machine vs getting a expensive one..its a way of life, its a way of taste..and i cant stand the look of windows and the cheap looking of the plastic case that many PC have. thats it. Its not even a virus / trojan / game / $ factor..just a visual preference that make me buy a expensive computer (and i can say a problem free environment for anykind of user computer savvy or not)
    I know it and accept the fact. Saying that PC vs Mac win is childish. I say, anything you will get is a winner, if it doe whatever you want with it at a budget you can live with.
     
  111. Patrick, there is much truth in what you're saying, and I appreciate that you are honest enough to say you chose the Mac because you know it and like it better. That's really refreshing and commendable. What computer you use comes down to personal choice. But there is a lot of elitism involved in being a Mac person (for many). It's that attitude of, "I'm too smart to ever buy a PC, because my Mac is superior". The only way the Mac is superior is in the mind of the user. In every other way, the ubiquitous PC has the edge.
    I've always said, "use what you like". If folks like Macs, then let them use them. But Mac users shouldn't look down their nose at the rest of us just because they picked Mac.
    Perhaps I was a bit childish, and I'm sorry if I was. But I agree with you that whatever you pick is a winner if it serves your needs. Best regards!
     
  112. Kelly, I hear you. Ad I do get what your saying, I have the same problem sometimes working in a law office where something I burned on Roxio can't be read by an expert or other party or client and vice a versa and you have to figure how to get it open.
    You must have pulled out all your hair out by now. So what do you do? Use your newest machine and hope it's the most backwords compatible? The other thing is, maybe your mac optical drive is getting funky. I know I just had to replace mine and it's one generation newer. If you press the eject button and it doesn't come out pretty fast. there could be a problem. If a disk takes that long and you see it isn't happening after 30 seconds, then you need to eject it manually and if it doesn't eject, could be something wrong w/the drive. When you manually eject does it pop right out?
     
  113. Garrison is right, the Mac uses Intel inside and if one actually knows how to put a pc together then one could buy the motherboard, Tower, a quad cpu chip, memory and graphics card for a fraction of the cost of a Mac.
    The Mac is overly expensive, and as my Daughter and others I know found out they don't even honor their warrantee. HP sells the most PC's these days and you can get a loaded one at Costco or Sams Club resonably, or order the components from Newegg and get it all shipped free saving the taxes too.
    I would say for Now X64 bit Vista will run 64bit versions of Photoshop or Lightroom on a Quad Core i7 or Core Duo Quad very fast with 4-8gb of ram either ddr2 or ddr3 and raid your sata drives and you have a burning fast machine that can be overclocked 30% faster.
    With the Mac your locked in, my daughter had a Macbook with condensation damage on the mainboard that was 4 months old they said since she didn't have the extended warantee it was not covered. I was in It for 20 years and never heard such bilge for a product that should be able to go indoors and outdoors and indoors again and not require $744 quoted repair. Wild, how much they wanted for their overpriced piece of junk.
    Tip Dells commercial laptops have weather seaed and are warranteed against going outside where temperatures produce condensation. Even the keyboards have rain barriers, not exactly rocket science but something Apple lacks.
    I see no reason to pay the premium to Apple, they are the computer for the guy who knows nothing about whats under the hood. And a friend of mine always had MAC because he couldn't in the old days figure out DOS, but that was before everyone went to GUI and either is easy to use without cracking a manual.
    Save money Like Garrison says lots of money to be saved buying a PC or building one. See my post about a week ago for some tips on what to buy.
     
  114. Here's a thought: I've got a friend who's a professional portrait photographer. He comes from the film world and has shot a number of celebrities (Rosa Parks, Ray Charles, BB King, etc.). I sold him a Colorvision Spyder Express monitor calibrator, which has an install disc for Mac or PC. Just put the disc in, follow the prompts, and run the install. He's got a fairly recent Mac.
    He's tried to install this repeatedly, but doesn't know how to get it to install. I've not been to his place or looked over his shoulder, but when it comes to computers, this fellow is a pure novice. I told him to read the installation instructions for Mac which is on the install disc, and he doesn't know how to do that. I told him to simply put the disc in the Mac, and follow the instructions that come up on the screen. He says nothing happens, and doesn't know how to access the disc files or run the install program manually. He says that otherwise, the disc drive and computer work fine. I told him that I've used Macs before, but couldn't really give him any further direction on this, and suggested he get with one of his Mac friends to resolve the issue.
    If the Mac is supposed to be so user-friendly and easy for everyone, why is this fellow having such a hard time? It was just curious to me.
     
  115. Barry;
    even on some of the XP boxes these Vista discs with an odder UDF version of disc format get confused and "seams like" the computer PC or Mac is studying the CD ffor along time; I have enough new spare CD readers/writers to convince myself its a file wormat variant issue. With teh PC the eject button seems to end an ill read attempt. Thus I dont really think the Imac 20" really has a bad CD reader; but its a decent thing to ponder too. Wehn I first got these weird Cd's thtat would not read on a mac or win2000; but would read SOMETIMES with XP; most ALL of the PC gurus mentioned wrongly it was a hardware CD reader issue; later folks were squaking about it.

    In defense of Mac; PC users should be GLAD that there is a decent following of mac users using photoshop; it help prevent Photoshop from becomeing like Autocad; changes for the sake of changes' or file variant that only open if one has the latest version; or tools moved with each revision.
    In defense of Mac too they are abit more goober proof; one can place on directly on the internet with little virus worries.
    Here it really doesnt bother me that folks use macs or pc; it is the my side is way better and yours has issues dogma of Mac users; or equally absurd stuff PC folks preach too.
    Your boss if you have one probably wants to get work done; both a Ford Or a Chevy can be used to haul hay or manure. Both Macs and PC can be used for photowork' or Nikons or Canons too.
    Few if ANY folks on these threads mention using the same tool model like a friend uses; one can save time having somebody to help you
     
  116. Steve, low IQ people are everywhere...since you only have to double click a installer, enter your password and hit OK, on both platform..i just cant say why your friend seem so challenged to do that!? My father in law who as NEVER touch a computer until last year can now bug me everyday with video / web site / slideshow he have done in is free time WITHOUT any instruction; plug the camera, hit the import button, select ome music, and ship to the world.
    i think your friend was drunk or he just turn 5 ; )
     
  117. totally agree Kelly; having friend around that use the same OS as you is a big +.. This is another reason why i have a Mac; everybody around me have one, client, photographer, fellow retoucher...whe all have money to spend it seem LOL
    Im also glad you mention the elitist part from both PC and Mac..to often i heard Mac eletist mention on PN from a PC guy..who really sound eletist also : )
     
  118. I think that the fact that digital cameras need to have a computer around is one of the hidden reasons that there seems to be some sort of film camera revival. After all some folks miss the day when they could just hand off the film at the drugstore and get prints. This is not our problem here unless we have really no free time, its just that some are not interested in the process just the results of picture taking.
    These are the people who may extend the lifetime of film.
     
  119. And then you wake up and decide to post to a Mac/PC thread.... I used PCs from the days before hard drives. (You had two real floppies, one for the program and one for your files;) Five years ago I switched to Macs, you couldn't pay me to go back to PCs.
     
  120. Nah, Patrick, in the case of my friend, I think there are some folks that just get lost with ANY technology... That said, I'd kill to have shot all those celebrities that he's shot over the years. What a portfolio.
     
  121. Hello Natalie-
    For all but Photoshop I like the Thinkpad line, hands down.
    For Photoshop I use a Mac and an Apple Cinema display. What I see on my monitor is what I get when output - that alone is enough reason.
    You do not need to spend the amounts you mentioned. Look for a used or refurbished G5 - notice above another 5D owner (your camera too right?) uses a G4.
    I use a G4 and EOS 5D as well but if starting from scratch I would get a G5, 1.5GB ram and add (very, very easy) a 300-500gb drive if there is only one drive in it. Use the smallest drive for your apps and work files and the larger drive to store your images.
    You mentioned a Terabyte drive. Well you are gong to have to back up whatever you have, plus run disc maintenance - how much time do you want to spend with this, really?
    Next as to your RAW files. I don't think anyone mentioned Adobe DNG converter. The later versions will process your files in batches then you can open in the version of Photoshop you have.
    Princess Pictures?
     
  122. I've used both Windows and Macs - but the former only because I was forced to. I'm all about the Mac. Currently, I use a Mac Pro with a 30" Cinema Display (admittedly, the entire setup is overkill) and a Mac Book Pro. I've had a Dell and a HP laptop in the past - thankfully I didn't pay for them (they were from work). I've also had a PowerBook G4, MacBook, iMac (3 of them) and a few others going back to my first Mac, an SE. Literally, if someone gave me a PC for free, I wouldn't know what to do with it. The reasons for going Mac are too numerous to enumerate in this post, but suffice it to say that they are more stable, have a lower total cost of ownership, and are more elegant in both software and hardware design. Furthermore, Apple consistently outranks other manufacturers in customer satisfaction and reliability ratings. I would recommend that you go to an Apple Store and use one before making a decision to switch operating systems (not that you really have to - the Mac will run Windows better than most PCs.. Why you would want to do that, though, is another issue entirely...). If you're not comfortable with it and don't see its potential for you, don't make the switch. I also agree with those who posted above me - definitely consider an iMac - you will probably be surprised by how likely it is to meet your needs. I could go on, but I'll spare you...
     
  123. I could go on, but I'll spare you...
    Thanks. That was nothing more than the usual echo chamber of propaganda void of any facts that can be quantified.
    ...have a lower total cost of ownership...
    Please explain. I hear this all the time, but that's all I hear.
     
  124. pmj

    pmj

    Here's one data point. My dad has a PC, a 2004 HP Pavilion with card reader, wireless keyboard and mouse (note: does require you to hook up some receiver first, so not quite wireless), wireless network (note: does require you to hook up an external antenna, so not quite wireless). It has a fairly decent videocard (note: no DVI). Sometimes the external hard drive is drive K:, other times it is called L: which is very convenient for automated scripts (not). It apparently comes with a program called pcnotify.exe which crashes after logging into Windows. I thought I had it removed, but after a while it "came back". It more or less requires an anti-virus program which needs updating. It displays a popup when it finds, loses and again finds the wifi network. The keyboard has all sorts of extra characters printed on the keys, making it look cluttered and hard to use for the hunt-and-peck typists. It doesn't look very nice. (Extra debet for HP: several months after XP SP2 was released, they still sold this machine with SP1, adding a few hours of work to upgrade.)
    Maybe this is one terrible example of a PC; although, with a bit of love and care and soft cussin', it has been in use for more than four years.
    I have a Mac. Its OS may not be able to run on 90% of the hardware out there, but it runs on mine. There may be a ton of programs out there, but I barely know how to use Aperture, Photoshop CS2 and the vi editor, so having even more programs seems not very useful to me. I can communicate with the rest of the world just fine. I have dutifully installed all Mac OS updates. I hook up my external drive and a backup is made.
    I don't like fixing computers, but when people find out that I "studied computers", so to speak, they sometimes ask. "Sure", I say, "would that be a MacBook Air, perhaps? Or one of those shiny new iMacs?" "Oh, never mind" is the usual response. How's that for return on investment? (My dad is the exception. I fix his PC when needed.)
    I like my Mac. It looks nice. It does what I want.
     
  125. Garrision;
    The overall cost of ownership of Mac is lower for those who are careless; who surf the internet nude; who love the defined/rigid/controlled Mac world.
    Thus they cannot assume and delete stuff and get in trouble.
    If their kids tries some game and it just doesnt work; it is ok too; the computer did not get messed up by a DOS era program that wants to change ones computer.
    Many mac folks seem ok that their canned burner program can only burn once to a CD;
    or say if our Imac 20" unit from 2006 cannot run Photoshop 7 from 2002.
    They are happy Old Steve has rigidly defined what they can or cannot do;
    ie like not allowing Photoshop 7 to load or install on a 2006 imac 20" unit with OSx 10.4.
    Here it bugs me that Photoshop 7.0 for the Mac will not install on a brand new 20" imac from 2006; this doesnt bother most macs folks; they accept old Steves dogma; the rigid control they need; worship and love as gospel.
    Thus if a revised OS X version of 2009 locks out an install of old CS2 from 2005; who cares; they can all upgrade; money doesnt matter; what matters is doing what is right; worshiping macs as the end to all end. Locking out a paid for fully legal version 600 buck Photoshop ok in the mac world; 4 years is to long to support; or allow usage. It part of the anti green thing macs are about; being obsolete; wastefull; locking out 4 year old programs that cost 600 bucks.
    What matters with a mac is conforming to dogma; not allowing older programs. In a way this consuming is good for the economy.
    Thus to run old Photoshop 7 on the Imac 20" unit here I have to install parallels; and a windows os such as win2000; and load up my PC version of Photoshop 7; since Steve has decided that macs cannot use a legal full bore 4 year old program made just for macs; ie a 2002 program will not work on a 2006 imac; 4 years is to old for a mac.
     
  126. Kelly dont pus it too far because it sound silly.
    heres real reason from a real mac user;
    1_i dont use canend software to burn my CD, as you on PC, i use something better, Toast 10.
    2_I dont use photoshop 7 since the release of photoshop 8..i dont see why and dont see any use for me to still have a older version installed other than 1 prior version *in case*. Same with Office, i use 2008 now, and dont see the point of keeping 2004 in it. By upgrading within the adobe spec (not apple) i make sure i can run whatever program i want knowing they are the latest one existing.
    3_I like the fact that everything is trash protected, but any user with the administrator password can simply unluck everything and trash is whole mac.
    4_I can also sale my Imac 24 paid 1900$ in february 2008, 1500$ in february 2009..cost me 400$ for 12month use..33$ a month, i think this is what the user meant by a low cost overall ownership (i could mistaken the real meaning). My father bought a PC something 1 years ago, pay 1800$ for it and when he sold it to upgrade he barrely get 400$ for it (why he didtn just upgarde a card, a hd, a whatever..because he dont no how thing work..and like many normal user out there he is not computer savvy like Garrison or Kelly..or me on a Mac) .i find it unplasant for him, and for all the other PC user
    Again, all i heard from the PC side is; $, dogma, cant play game...very borring. What do you care if *mac people* have enough monye to get what they like? why would i need to play game? i have a 360, PS3 and a Wii...enough for my game craving once upon a time during my well deserved weekend : )
    Are you jealous because whe can afford a mac? its too over priced for what he offer..who care if he offer what I NEED. The dogma - $ - game related argument is really like the virus - problem - incompatibility that mac user talk about PC; in both case it come mostly from uneducated user, or by some other who are just jealous of what other can have..
    I have a mac necause i like that. i feel comfortable with it, and it does what i need. You get a PC because it cost lees money, you feel comfortable with it, and it does what you need for what you can spend. Theres is no winner here, both will do the job fine; how much money you are ready to spend, whats did your friends around have, who can help you close to you in need are the question one should ask himself when buyng a computer.
     
  127. (For Jeffrey A. Bubis) If someone gave you a PC, one thing you might do with it is run any of the 90% of software out there for computers. And let me tell you, if you keep your head in the Mac world 24/7, you might want to peek outside and see all the software you're mssing. That's one reason they developed Intel Macs, so they could finally access the rest of the world, and why you might want to use Windows-based programs on a Mac.
    It's the other way around for me, though. I see no reason to plunk down the bucks for an overpriced Mac when everything I need to use is written for the PC. There's nothing on the Mac side that I need. Not the "elegant interface", not the supposed reliability (I built my PC and haven't had any reliability issues), not the Apple customer service, and not the slick shiny case. You can have 'em.
     
  128. 4_I can also sale my Imac 24 paid 1900$ in february 2008, 1500$ in february
    2009..cost me 400$ for 12month use..33$ a month, i think this is what the user
    meant by a low cost overall ownership

    That's pretty good, Patrick. But why'd you sell it and what it's cost to re-tool? Spending $33/mnth to use a computer seems reasonable if you never had to buy another one. But you did. Maybe you spent another $2200 on a new one? This is what I find with my Mac friends, they sell their machine every 3 years for 1/3 the cost and then buy outright again.
    Most PC'rs don't do this. Maybe some wealthy luddites do. Some gamers do if they can't work on their own machines. But this demographic shows that 15 year old gamers are budget tight and, with the wealth of info posted into google, most build thier own. Windows offers the flexibility to upgrade hardware when more speed is an option on older hardware.
    I have a 5 year old Antec case that has gone through two computer builds already. I'm about to spend $800 and have an i7 920, a $250 mobo, and 8 gigs of ram installed. My raptor drives plug in and go RAID O, as does my optical drive and usb card readers. It's impossible for me to calculate the monthly cost, but over five years, and always having three extremely fast computers that gets my work done quicker than what Mac's offer, it's much less than $33/mnth.
    It's not just the money. It's the environmental waste that I can't stand with Mac. Right down to all that arty packaging they come in. This has always bothered me since I see orange and blue and green CRT's in the landfill with perfectly working computers attached inside. In a few years, I'll be seeing all these $2000 iMac's in the land fill. My dad does his email and watches youtube on a 10 year old P2. He bought it for pennies 6 years ago and hasn't done a thing to it. I treated him to a $300 Dell LCD. Plugs in and works. I took one of my old XP 32 OS's, spent 20 mins on the phone with MS saying the motherboard died, gave me a key, and my dad now has XP instead of NT. I'm pretty sure there is no ten year old Mac's running at the moment.
    My father bought a PC something 1 years ago, pay 1800$ for it and when he sold it to upgrade he barrely get 400$ for it
    Simple can't believe this friend unless it was broken? Craigslist is filled with adverts for 5 year old P4's for $200 to $400. You dad's one year old PC must have been a dual or quad core and for $400, someone got a great deal.
    Are you jealous because whe can afford a mac?
    If Mac's are most cost effective, how can ask in the next sentence that their expensiveness might prevent ownership? I buy the most efficient tools. That's all they are to me. I'm as attached to my computer as I am to my cresent wrench. I could care less what powers photoshop and what few screens I see before I'm into Adobe. I'd have to spend $6K on a Mac to go as fast as what my PC cost for a 1/4 to build. And then what? Sell the for Mac for $3K in two years and spend another $6K? No thanks.
    Although Kelly's post is funny, there's great truth to it. You have no idea when you buy into Mac what will or wont work in a couple years. If one has been Mac for a number of years, there is certainly stuff you've bought that wont load onto Leopard. Not only does this piss me off, but devleopers as well and they don't even bother. All the time I am seeing important and nifty photoshop pluggins and "Mac version not availble at this time". My old plugins work just fine. I have one that was written for XP32. It works on XP64, Vista32, Vista64, Windows 7 32 and 64. That's six OS's covering a decade of Photoshop installs. Yet it only works on Tiger. And the Mac crowd paid the same $99 as I did. Adobe still 32 bit on Mac? This is 2009 folks. Limited and slower software on the Mac? No thanks. I have work to get done and do it wih software I know will work in five years.
     
  129. G, as you know i sell my Imac + my macbook pro (got 3000$ for both) to get a macbook pro unibody so when i travel i dont have to fight with the airplane to put my Imac in the cabin with me : ) And since they got the same power, i tought it was time to make the move. Plus having always to buy 3 license of the software (imac + laptop + macpro) i find it would be more efficient just to have 2 instead (when you buy cs4 its good for 2 computer..not 3)
    So for all those reason i need to buy another one. Im waiting to sell my 2years old macpro now, not that im in a hurry, just waiting for the next i7 on mac to be release, and that will make my usual 24 month upgrade, i can afford it because its for me a biz expense, taxes deductible etc...
    I was refering about expensive mac to buy..since everyone seem to talk about that, but as i said i get good money back from it after 12month, so even if its expensive to get at first, it still have a good money value, so in the end, it not that expensive.
    In the end i think it depend if you are a customer who bougth it for home use or a biz owner that can afford to put money up front since is would be taxes deductible..anyway, as a biz owner, i ahve to send my money to someone; the governement or apple..i prefer apple as i get some candy in return : )
     
  130. Since there are lots of Mac people reading this I have a question.
    First though Natalie I have to say I agree with the comment above about getting a used G5 - also Apple has the Cinema displays refurbished w/ warranty - you mentioned wanting two monitors. If one is for PShop tools you can use one of your Dell monitors. Your hardware cost would be a fraction of what you stated.
    ref: http://store.apple.com/us/product/F9177LL/A & http://store.apple.com/us/product/F9179LL/A
    My Question -
    The new Mac Book laptop screens I believe can be had glossy or matte, TFT or LED ? Are there any preferences for PShop use?
    thanks
    F.P.
    San Francisco
     
  131. i think the 17inch macbook is the only that have a option about the matte or glossy screen..maybe not even anymore didtn look at it.
    for the rest, under normal in house condition, i dont find the glossy to be a problem at all, and for the road, unless you are on the beach or on a funky location, i dont see it as a problem eithr. I think they have a matte screen film that you can add on it made by a companie i dont recal there name..never try it, but i might have a look for the in case sitution. As for the LED itself (apple 24inch LED monitor) it is one unbelivable piece of monitor i have seen seen for a long time, color acuracy and look of it...after calibration : )
     
  132. Patrick;
    One reason we tried to place 2002 Photoshop 7 for the mac on the 2006 Imac is that is what the retoucher we hired used on their own G4; they were familar with PS7 and never used anything more modern. We also got CS2 upgrade to move into. Thus the plan failed; Apple locks out using a 4 year old program. Thus the retoucher was frustrated not having PS7 on our imac; also frustrated with trying to use a PC too with PS7.
    The Second reason to have some older versions is newer photshop versions sometmes will not support newer file variants.
    The third version was some of MY custom batches use features in older photoshop; but not in newer stuff.
     
  133. i think the 17inch macbook is the only that have a option about the matte or glossy screen..maybe not even anymore didtn look at it.
    i saw a picture yesterday of the new 15" macbook with a matte screen.
     
  134. In reading the many above comments some seem to have lost sight of the question Natalie asked:

    "I'm curious what everyone uses at home , PC or Mac?"
    -
    As to dragging a disc to the trash to eject it - that was before OS10 (perhaps 5 years ago). I have had a PC laptop and Mac desktop since the very first of each came out (my Toshiba "laptop" weighed 17lbs. - but the screen was bigger [7 inch] compared to the Mac [5.5 inch]. Never did make sense that when you wanted eject the disc that you had saved all your valuable work on you "put it in the trash" - but that is all part of history and of no concern to Natalie.
    And for those whom wish to use PShop 7 / OS9 - these older apps can be used on new Intel machines, see this page:
    http://gwenole.beauchesne.info/en/projects/sheepshaver
    But there again - Natalie I am sure does not care about any of this. Too bad there is not a "tally" here, perhaps the site administrators can implement something like this (with tally at the top):
    http://portsmouthnh.com/survey/surveyResults.cfm?surveyID=875
    cheers-
    F.P.
     
  135. The real issue is that the MAC retoucher we had really didnt want to fart around with a Parallels; ie running a PC version of PS7 under an Imac. They wanted to use the MAC version of PS 7 in the Mac OS directly; without a kludge.
     
  136. FP, a mac vs pc thread had and will always bring this kind of long and nonsense answer..is part of the human life : )
    Kelly, i found your solution! hire a new photo retoucher that can work with cs4..Oh wait, i can work with cs4! email me ; )
    * a photo retoucher that use Ps 7 AND a mouse...dam you are reallllyyyy not lucky. LOL
     
  137. Garrision;
    The overall cost of ownership of Mac is lower for those who are careless; who surf the internet nude; who love the defined/rigid/controlled Mac world.
    Thus they cannot assume and delete stuff and get in trouble.
    If their kids tries some game and it just doesnt work; it is ok too; the computer did not get messed up by a DOS era program that wants to change ones computer.
    Many mac folks seem ok that their canned burner program can only burn once to a CD;
    or say if our Imac 20" unit from 2006 cannot run Photoshop 7 from 2002.
    They are happy Old Steve has rigidly defined what they can or cannot do;
    ie like not allowing Photoshop 7 to load or install on a 2006 imac 20" unit with OSx 10.4.
    Here it bugs me that Photoshop 7.0 for the Mac will not install on a brand new 20" imac from 2006; this doesnt bother most macs folks; they accept old Steves dogma; the rigid control they need; worship and love as gospel.
    Thus if a revised OS X version of 2009 locks out an install of old CS2 from 2005; who cares; they can all upgrade; money doesnt matter; what matters is doing what is right; worshiping macs as the end to all end. Locking out a paid for fully legal version 600 buck Photoshop ok in the mac world; 4 years is to long to support; or allow usage. It part of the anti green thing macs are about; being obsolete; wastefull; locking out 4 year old programs that cost 600 bucks.
    What matters with a mac is conforming to dogma; not allowing older programs. In a way this consuming is good for the economy.
    Thus to run old Photoshop 7 on the Imac 20" unit here I have to install parallels; and a windows os such as win2000; and load up my PC version of Photoshop 7; since Steve has decided that macs cannot use a legal full bore 4 year old program made just for macs; ie a 2002 program will not work on a 2006 imac; 4 years is to old for a mac.
     
  138. FP, draggin the CD to the trash is * so last year* : )
    by simply selet the CD and hit command + e , or by pushing the keyboard button eject you will ..eject the CD.
     
  139. Patrick, my point on it was that dragging a disc to a trashcan icon on the screen is an odd and non-intuitive way to eject it, and I was always puzzled why the software folks at Apple came up with that convention. Dragging something to the trashcan to delete it is much more intuitive. As for hitting the Cmd+e on the keyboard, or hitting a keyboard "eject" button, those are not intuitive ways to eject a disc either. That's why the rest of the world puts a physical button ON the drive itself for that function. Putting it on the keyboard is bass-ackwards...and one of the many reasons I don't use a Mac.
     
  140. My daughter had a Three month old (it stopped working one month later) Macbook and meanwhile they started shipping Leopod and she want to upgrade from Tiger and they asked her for $120 dollars Student upgrade. I have Vista for 1.5 years and wanted to upgrade to Vista x64 and Microsoft charged me $10 shipped for the OS upgrade to the 64 bit OS.
    An Apple a day takes your money away.
     
  141. Steve; Steve Jobs hates buttons and knobs. It is dictated. It was a prime requirement on the tombstone mac design back in 1983 ; no eject button. If one brought up adding a button back in 1983 like the 1981 Sony floppy had like on a HP piece of test gear; there was alot of yelling; no buttons allowed.The tombstone mac has a canon dc motor and gear reduction geartrain to eject the macs disc; an add on affair that before the mac was 100 bucks list for a single; maybe 20 in moderate volumes before mac came out in 1984. Before the mac came out the there were about 3 totally differect small floppies; sub 5 1/4 inch. The Sony floppy of today was used in HP gear for several years before the mac came out in 1984. Engineers typically know not to eject a floppy while its being written; thus no issue with buttons. The mac has a variable speed floppy; having no buttons makes it more duffus proof; one might eject while it is writting; ie a prime goal for the mac. One has a more costly floppy drive; ie double; but the box (mac) has more control.
     
  142. Kelly, I think I'm in love with you. Any chick from New Zealand who knows all of that is definitely a woman of rare breed! If you ever make it to the US, you gotta look me up!
     
  143. mea culpa / im sorry / je m'excuse / perdona me
    Kelly, all those years i think you where a man?! see how bad i am with my english..i cant even recognize a female name!...
    so sorry, i had to publicly apologize in case i died during my sleep and never had the chance to say sorry...if i had your adress, i will send you flower just to feel better!
    See, sometimes whe learn important stuff in a pc vs mac war : )
    *on the other hand your the first female i personaly know thats soooooooooo good with technical that amazed me.
     
  144. Kelly is female? No...
     
  145. Perhaps I assumed too much? I guess something in the posts suggested Kelly was female. If you're a bloke, please accept my apologies!
     
  146. Dumped the 1.6 celeron with 256ram runnig XP for a 24" 2.8 iMac. What a jump!
     
  147. Picture from the other night after i shot what I was shooting!
    00SYeK-111347984.JPG
     
  148. PC (Dell, with XP Pro). Used Macs in school (art/photography major), never could figure what the big deal was supposed to be about, they were no better and no worse than my PCs. Maybe for a serious graphic artist or a computer nerd there's some big advantage to a Mac but as a serious amateur photographer who occasionally sells something, there's no reason to for me to buy a Mac, I've been very happy with my PCs. IF I was even tempted, all I'd need to do is talk to a friend who made the switch about a year ago and has had nothing but problems with his Mac. I'm kind of puzzled about why you ask the question. You say you've been happy with your present system. So why would you want to change?
     
  149. Poll :what you use at home:
    MAC
     

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