Pinhole Photo Forum

I think there is such an interest in Pinhole Photography that a

Pinhole Forum might be in order. It is hard to know where to post

Pinhole photos and NW/W pinholes (they have been ruled out on the

Alternative Processes B/W Forum.)

 

So, why not have a dedicated Pinhole Photography Forum?

since when have you cared so much about equipment....what has that kossoff guy done to you..?

i think that would be a nice addition to the photo.net, even if it might be one of the less active forums.

It's certainly something we might consider. Can you support the claim that "there is such an interest in Pinhole Photography" here? There may well be, I just haven't seen any evidence of it myself, but I don't read all the forums and I could easily have missed it.

Maybe there's only one way to find out ... start a pinhole forum. Perhaps then I'd put up a few more of my own pinhole shots without being told that my focus is way off ... :-)

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But seriously, while it would be quiet and might have a very limited number of regular users, having a pinhole forum would draw the interested people out of the woodwork - and it might help push a few experimental boundaries as well.

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Why has it been ruled out of Alternative Processes B/W ...? Perhaps the title Alternative Photography would have been more inclusive, after all, some pinholers use Velvia ...

I presume it's not in the Alternative Process forum because it's not an alternative process and more than shooting with a Nikon is. If you did pinhole cyanotypes it might be, but not if you shoot on TriX.

 

We don't ever delete forums, so throwing them up for every possible special interest group and "seeing if they work" isn't the way we do things. If it was, the place would be littered with dead forums.

 

If there's an interest we'll create a forum. I moderate the Archived General forum and that forum has a category for pinhole photography. I don't recall a single pinhole post being submitted in the last year. There are a grand total of 3 posts in there, one from the year 2000 and two from the year 2003. It is the least used category in the entire forum.

 

Now you might say that the reason there are so few posts is that there isn't a topical forum, but that didn't stop the 1132 posts which were made to the "darkroom" category while there was no "darkroom" forum.

 

I'm not against minority interests and I think a pinhole forum would be more about the true spirit of photography than quite a few of the other "gearhead" forums. I just don't want a dead forum on my hands!

 

Maybe people are calling for a pinhole gallery? Perhaps someone could have their arm twisted and a pinhole category could be created in the "No Words" forum (if there isn't already one - I haven't looked).

<i>Can you support the claim that "there is such an interest in Pinhole Photography" here?

</i>

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I'm interested. My interest is probably more in the discussion area than in the gallery area.

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I don't find the "no words" concept particularly compelling; it can provide inspiration but

doesn't help me learn, and that's what I come to photo.net for (I realize that it's the other

way around for some).

P.S. I shoot E100GX, mostly, with my 120-format pinhole camera.

I don't actually know if there is a sizeable interest in Pinhole pholtography here at photo.net, but I think in general, by just googling it, there is quite an interest "out there." There are quite a few hand crafted pinhole cameras on the market, some quite beautiful. Someone besides myself is buying them.

 

I'll use No Words for posting some of the results since it doesn't seem to qualify as a black and white alternative process. Maybe others will join me. Could be fun and interesting.

I don't actually know if there is a sizeable interest in Pinhole pholtography here at photo.net, but I think in general, by just googling it, there is quite an interest "out there." There are quite a few hand crafted pinhole cameras on the market, some quite beautiful. Someone besides myself is buying them.

 

I'll use No Words for posting some of the results since it doesn't seem to qualify as a black and white alternative process. Maybe others will join me. Could be fun and interesting.

Several months ago someone (I believe it was Josh Root) asked for photos for some purpose I don�t recall, but I sent a pinhole portrait of my old Golden Retriever but didn�t mention that it wasn�t a conventional photo. I immediately got a couple of not so polite comments by e-mail, mainly denouncing it for being out of focus. Then some sorehead cited it as an ad hominem reason that my opinion was worthless so I had it zapped. I suppose it was my own fault for not mentioning that it was a pinhole shot of a dog breed trained to hold steady. Anyhow, I am not a confirmed pinholer, but it is an interesting genre and I think it would make for an interesting topic. I would expect to participate from time to time.

I'd like to clarify something, without intending this as a criticism of Q.L.'s desire for a pinhole forum: As moderator of the B&W Photography - Alternative Processes forum I have *not* prohibited threads discussing pinhole photography. In fact, I encourage it, despite my early reservations.

 

By its very nature pinhole photography involves some complex issues such as reciprocity failure/calculations, information about which could be very useful to other B&W shooters. And there may be certain film processing and printing methods differing sufficiently from what it discussed in the other B&W forums to merit a niche in the Alt Process forum.

 

What I would discourage are "No Words" or "Words" threads on any of the B&W Forums. These photo-heavy threads simply bog down forums that are intended to be for discussions of a more technical nature. And there already exist plenty of places on photo.net to display photos.

 

I ask only that threads about pinhole photography on the B&W - Alt Process Forum be of a more technical nature, providing specific information to help others learn how to use and improve upon the process.

Some time back, I actually ran across a Pinhole forum elsewhere, and registered on it. After doing so, I disovered the previous post had been a couple of MONTHS prior. I think that is what Bob is trying to avoid here.

 

One of the interesting points of pinhole work is it's simplicity; it doesn't demand a lot of technical questions and answers. There is already plenty of "how to" information available out there on the internet; there are cameras, camera kits, and adaptors for SLR's available. I notice the thread here suggests a pinhole forum, but no one has actually posted a question or discussion topic about it.

 

And Quiche, check the "No Words" forum, where one of the posters just started a Pinhole thread.

 

I guess if anyone is interested, we could all just start discussing the bokeh of aluminum foil versus brass shim stock or something, but it seems a bit pointless to me.

<i>I notice the thread here suggests a pinhole forum, but no one has actually posted a

question or discussion topic about it.</i>

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I posted a question back in December or so (probably to the unarchived forum) about light

meters suitable for pinhole photography, and got several very helpful answers.

I've been contemplating posting a question regarding reciprocity failure and color shifts,

to find out what people's experiences have been with different color films. Maybe I'll post

that one now.

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In any case, I think there are a number of possibly good questions regarding pinholes that

don't seem to be well answered elsewhere on the web (having read pretty much everything

I could find...)

I've noticed on other forums, pinhole cameras are sometimes lumped in with Holga/Lomo and other so-called "Toy" Cameras.

 

I'm not sure if a "Toy Camera" forum is what we really need here, but maybe it would keep Holga posts out of the Medium Format forum? :)

"If there's an interest we'll create a forum." "I just don't want a dead forum on my hands!"

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Bob, I take both your points seriously, but fact is that one question here from QL has promted some interest, and an immediate response on the No Words forum.

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So what next? I'd agree that adding a Pinhole category to the No Words drop-down box would help - then over a month or so you'd be able to count the level of interest in real figures.

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There's not a lot I'd be needing to discuss on the pinhole issue frankly, but any such questions and queries need a home. The problem of 'home' being the B&W Alternative Processes forum is that many pinholers shoot color and use perfectly normal processing.

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Perhaps Alternative Camera Techniques would be a better catch-all forum title since some of the more adventurous not only make their own pinholes but also hybridize standard cameras or use home-made lenses.

Seems like combining the pinhole and toy camera categories would result in a viable forum. My impression is that many people have attempted to display photos of that type on photo.net only to be discouraged by raters and others who have no interest in or appreciation for these styles and techniques. Isn't the international pinhole celebration about to come around again? Seems like the ideal time to launch such a feature on Photo.Net.

The forums aren't the place for image critiques though. We've pretty much established that as a general forum "rule". If you just want to show your pictures outside the gallery structure, there's the new "No Words" forum. I'm very hesitant to start a new discussion forum if all people effectively want is gallery space and image critiques, since that's really Brian's exclusive territory.

 

Have the pinhole/Holga/toy camera people tried using the "No Words" forum?

It seems to me that "Pinhole/Toy" is a lot better defined than the recently established "Street/Documentary" which seems to be struggling for an identity at the moment. The pinhole/toy esthetic is also one that is just never going to fit into the gallery mainstream. What's to be lost by giving them a home?

I'd love to see a pinhole/toy camera forum here. I frequently get emails asking about pinhole/toy shots I've done. I'd most definetly contribute to such a forum.

Bob,

 

If Street/Documentary (whatever that is) deserves a forum then I strongly believe that "Pinhole Etc" (which is what I would call it) does. Anyone who has ever posted a Pinhole photo ANYWHERE has had to contend with the knee jerk dufus comment "it's blurry" or similar whines. This alone should be justification for a separate forum. Just my little pinhole opinion.

 

QL

When the Street/Documentary forum was launched, I think Jeff Spirer (the moderator) moved well over 100 recent threads on street photography from the existing People Photography forum into it. I'm sure there were more he could have moved.

 

We have exactly three pinhole threads in the current General (achived) forum "pinhole" category, collected over the last 10 years. That's less than one post every three years on average.

 

You can see why I'm somewhat dubious about the need/demand for such a forum at the moment. I've done some pinhole work myself and built a couple of pinhole cameras so I'm not coming at this from the point of view of a total non-believer.

 

I see again the call for somewhere to "show pictures" where they won't be dismissed as blurry, and I'll repeat that the forums are not intended as a place to "show pictures", with the possible exception of the new "No Words" forum, thogh even there it's explicitly stated in the forum preamble that the "No Words" forum isn't a gallery.

 

If and when Brian changes this policy, then a forum gallery for the showing of pinhole/toy camera pictures could well be something we might add. Indeed, Brian may be planning theme galleries for the site in the future (or not) - I don't know his plans.

 

Why not post some pinhole pictures in the "No Words" forum. I'm sure we could create a "pinhole/toy camera/Holga" category if there seems enough interest. In the meantime I'll move any interesting pinhole photography threads that I see into the General (achived) forum "pinhole" category.

 

In the meantime the moderator of the B&W alternative Process forum has explicitly stated (above) that pinhole questions appropriate for that forum (i.e. technical questions) are welcome there too.

Bob, as you can see, some pinhole shots were posted in the No Words forum several days ago - an explicity 'non-comment' area. So where do the comments go?

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Notice that the Street/Documentary forum has its own internal No Words section ... makes sense doesn't it, for minority interests?

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And why on earth should a pinhole or toy camera user want to post messages under Alternative BW Processes? As I said before, many pinholers use perfectly normal color film.

Somehow, when wanting to post something about Pinhole Photography, "General Photography" is not the first place that springs to mind. I would think most people seriously doing Pinhole (not as a science project or part of an intro photo class) think of it as "Special." This could explain the 3 threads in 10 years phenomenon.

There used to be a pretty active forum at pinholevisions.org, but the proprieter decided to

focus his energies elsewhere and closed the forum. He still operates the pretty active

Pinhole news at www.pinhole.com

 

Parts of that forum and a lot of the the archive have been transfered to http://

www.pinholeday.org/phpBB2/ It hasn't been very active recently. The upload gallery was

the most active part of the old forum, and it's not on the new one.

 

By the way April 15th is Worldwide Pinhole Photography Day. People throughout the world

are invited to make a pinhole photograph during these twenty-four hours. Each author will

be able to submit an image to the unique and international WPPD gallery at

www.pinholeday.org.

 

There's a pretty active pinhole email list that recently moved from one server to another.

The new owner hasn't been able to get up a subscribe page, but he's working on it and it

will eventually be at http://spitbite.org/pinhole-discussion/list.html.