Nikon Z5 below $1000 in the US

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by ShunCheung, Apr 19, 2021.

  1. Stop broadening a very specific term to describe which type of modern camera lens a manufacture is selling to cover the tricks that advertisers use.

    Now adding the word MACRO to a lens is a much more grey area because there's no accepted single definition of what macro actually means, and yes some manufacturers do add it to the name to make it sound more attractive.

    I don't deny they do. But to think that lens manufacturers use the term PRIME to sell more lenses is, quite frankly, crackers.

    Manufacturers make and sell prime lenses and zoom lenses. A very simple either/or division that everyone understands.

    They also make secondary lenses. A TC is one of the many types you can get, but no-one uses the term because it's very broad and non-specific. No-one in their right mind is going to go into a camera shop and ask for a Secondary lens please.

    Nope, sorry, I wouldn't. Wrong again.
    Sanford likes this.
  2. The changes between Chaucer and Shakespeare are quite dramatic.

    I can read the original Shakespeare, but.. hummm..Chaucer.....:confused:

    Printing settled things down for a bit...:)
  3. I can't stop what i am not doing. I'm not broadening anything.

    That manufacturers use the term today (while they only did to distinguish between the primary and secondary - in their true and only correct meaning - before) was brought up in defence of the wrong usage, and was not introduced into the discussion by me.
    And to understand that and why they do, you must know that it indeed is marketing, and definitley not because they do not know what prime really means nor that they would not know that this usage is wrong. They do so, put (some of them) the word prominently on their lenses, and not to make their lenses work better.
    Consider that in all the of the decades of making and selling lenses, these manufacturers never needed nor used that term to sell anything. It's new (hence you're not-being-stuck-in-the-dark-ages reasoning. Forgot about that?).
    If you cannot see that, cannot see why the term prime is used in marketing, you should stay away from marketing. If you do have a job in that field, i bet you're not very succesful.

    Manufacturers do not use the broad term secondary lenses, because noone would know what you are asking for without calling the thing by its proper name.
    Prime just to be much the same, covering both fixed focal length and variable focal length lenses (and yes, you indeed find mention of variable focal length prime lenses in manufacturer's catalogues). The term was not used in photography at all, is borrowed from cinematography, where camera lenses (both fixed and variable...) were called prime lenses.

    What macro means is well defined, yes. That does not prevent some manufacturers use the word to claim something their lenses cannot deliver. They can use that word for marketing purposes precisely because we do know what we should expect from something labeled such.
    Again: do not confuse usage with being correct, factual or accurate.
  4. Indeed.
    But change and being fluid is not quite the same. Some 'changes' do not take.
  5. Completely unlike Prime and Zoom them?

    Which have.

    If you still think makers use and have used Prime strictly as a marketing term, as opposed to a term to differentiate between a lens of fixed focal length and one with a variable one, then I guess that's that.


    Prime should be specific to a lens of fixed focal length and...

    Primary should be specific to the first lens in a combination lens arrangement?
  6. My primary lens is (say) the 24-70, my prime lens is whatever non-zoom lens I pick out of my bag. The English language is a fickle beast.
    Mary Doo and mike_halliwell like this.
  7. First Amongst Equals always confused me!

    What price do you think is 'suitable' for an entry level FX ML body?

    The entry level (well, the cheapest) FX DSLR, the D600, was $2099 at launch in 2012.
  8. In today's understanding, a "prime" lens is a fixed-focal-length lens, just as "gay" is a romantic attraction to the same sex. You can drill these words down historically, technically...forever, but there's no point to it. ;)
  9. "market forces" sounds like a polite term for "fire sale."
  10. I suppose Nikon were trying to get back as much as they could to cover ML R&D.

    Combining that with the need to clear inventory for whatever comes next...and I don't mean the Z9....:)

    At cost maybe?
  11. There are many reasons for the pricing, most will be unknown outside of Nikon.

    One is, market share.
    This may be a move to try to get more market from or prevent losing market share to Canon and Sony.
    To me, the big one, is not losing market share to Canon, as both migrate from dSLR to mirrorless.

    There is also the old razor strategy.
    Give away the razor and people will have to come back to buy the blades.
    So you lower the price of the camera, to sell more expensive Z-FX lenses.

    If this had happened several years back, I would have made the move from DX to FX.
    It would have significantly lowered the cost of migrating to FX. At the time, I think the D750 was over $2,000.
    In a similar way, it could be an effort to get the DX dSLR owners to upgrade to FX mirrorless, by lowering the cost of migration.
  12. Why don't we discuss something noncontroversial - like politics, religion, the only proper cleaning solution for a rifle ... :)
    robert_davies|2 likes this.
  13. Likely there was a lot of margin in the original price, and the price is started high when a product is most competitive and is expected to be lowered as the product ages to maintain some sales. This happens to pretty much every product. Fire sale is something that happens when a product is damaged by a fire for example (or e.g. in the case of the D2H which was deeply discounted because it turned out it could brick itself (the blinking green light of death affected many Nikon cameras at the time) which was considered unacceptable for a professional camera, so Nikon brought out the D2Hs with fixed circuits; of course Nikon also fixed the D2H's but still if your camera stops working it's pretty unusual and a bad situation), or when a company is facing bankruptcy, but this isn't the case for Nikon. In the past they've deeply discounted many cameras and that wasn't the end of the story. Sony also sell their older models at around half their original price in some cases and they too stay in business.

    Note that in Europe the Z5 continues to be priced at around 1500 €. Perhaps the US market just isn't interested in this model or has tougher competition. Why not focus on the positive and think of it as an opportunity to get an affordable entry into the Z system.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
  14. I guess the same goes for Nikon DX ML cameras, handily labelled Entry Level.

    There's precisely one, the Z50. There are just 2 kit zooms.

    Where are they going with this?

    Yes, body wise it's ~1/2 the price of FX.
  15. I'm not sure if they need to be going somewhere with it? Another broader range DX standard zoom is in the roadmap. These are the most common DX lens purchases on the DSLR side, so they focus on where they think there will be some volume.
    mike_halliwell likes this.
  16. There's still a view that Nikon DX DSLR users were left wanting with regard to dedicated lenses.... other than a raft of kit 18> XXX slow zooms.

    I fear they're doing the same to DX ML. Unless market research has told them there's not much market for specialist or fast DX glass?

    I suppose it would be interesting if they made a ML D500. I guess it would be a mini Z9.

    Then again, if the Z9 is 50MP plus, there's no reach advantage with a 24MP DX Z body. But I guess higher frame rate would be easier with twin Expeeds and a smaller sensor, say 20>30 fps.
  17. Have no interest in the Z5. To me it still doesn't make sense for a APS-C Z mount body. About in tuning, for me as long as I understand what you said I am not picky.
  18. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Your post is unclear, but the Z5 is an FX body.
  19. Think you should Google "fire sale." Need I remind you that 2020-21 hasn't been "business as usual" for most manufacturers. Nikon hasn't had huge success in their tardy and lacklustre MILC roll-out, either. Being late to the MILC party is costing them now.Another year of pandemic sales doldrums could be deadly. But then I don't live in the Nikonista alternate reality.
  20. Considering the proximity of the Olympics, does anyone think the Z9 is out in the wild yet?

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