Nikon Df Handling Issues (for Andrew Garrard)

<p>I have the Df for 3 days now so this is my opinions on the controls/handling issues of the Df. First off for the bad news that this camera is not for you Andrew. You need way too much controls often. You said you use manual mode often but really when you use manual mode you still rely on the camera metering system to automatically give you correct exposure. It does it because you put it on Auto ISO and thus you need a mean to quickly turn auto ISO on and off. You would also need the EC to compensate for situation when the meter would be wrong. <br>

First the Df isn't a good camera to use with big lenses. It's a camera to be hold with the left hand while the right hand would operate most of the controls except the aperture ring, the focusing ring and the zoom ring. I would cradle the camera in my left hand and then operate most controls with the right hand and with 2 or more fingers. Almost all controls on the top deck can be operated with the camera up to the eye. The EC is easier to use if you use the right hand to adjust it. If you use the left hand the right hand would have problem holding the camera. Shutter speed dial and the on/off switch can be operate with 1 finger while the right hand is still on the grip but I much rather use 2 fingers on these with the camera held by the left hand alone. I can operate all these controls while the camera is at eye level. The front command dial is stiff and pretty hard to use if you have the camera strap attached. So I use the aperture ring except for the G lenses. I use the shutter speed dial and the rear command dial would fine adjust in 1/3 stop but I rarely need it. I do the fine adjustment with the aperture ring. <br>

Overall I like the way the camera handle a lot. There are a few things I don't like. The camera is actually too big so you can not palm it for grab shot. The aperture display only display in full stop when you use the aperture ring. Nikon can fix this but they just don't care. </p>

<p>Finally Nikon USA sent me a test sample, and I too have been using the Df for a couple of days.</p>

<p>The problem with the on/off switch and the sub-command dial is that they are small dials. If you turn them with two fingers, they are not stiff at all. However, if you try to turn them with one finger, you will be applying pressure from one side only, thus pressing on the axle (and perhaps bending the axle a tiny bit) so that it feels stiff. When you use two fingers from opposite sides of the dial, there is no problem at all.</p>

<p>If you mainly use aperture priority (A), you can get around the sub-command dial issue doing what Thom Hogan does: use Custom Setting f7 to swap the functions of the main and sub command dials so that you can use the main command dial, which is conventional just like it is on any Nikon DSLR and the F5, F100, etc., to control the aperture.</p>

<p>Shortly after I upgraded from the F4 to F5 in 1997, I realized that I seriously dislike the old dials on the F4 and was no longer interested in using the F4 any more. Therefore, it should surprise no one that I dislike the controls on the Df, but I'll discuss that further after I have more experience with that camera.</p><div></div>

<p>That's interesting on both accounts. I've always preferred the control layout of the F4 and earlier cameras, probably because that's what I learned on and used for so many years. After a full decade of using the command dials found on the D1-X and forward, I still don't like them and have never been able to use them without thinking about which one controls shutter or aperture. It simply isn't inutitive to me. I nearly alway use manual mode so this is an issue. If indeed I buy the Df it will be on the basis of how well the controls work. My first impressions were very positive. Unlike Shun I think the F4s is probably my favorite Nikon and the easiest to use with the F2 hot on its heels. Still living in the 90's I guess.<br>

<br />Rick H.</p>

<p>I using this camera all ready 4 weeks, and like the results, images, the camera producing very much. I compare to my D4 and D3s. The control handling is very comfortable and simple for me, using the camera on M mode only and shutter dial on the 1/3 step thumb control. ISO change is clumsy if you shooting in a cold wether, gloves on your hand, You have to remove the gloves to able to pus the release knob to able to turn the ISO dial, Would be much better in the opposite order, ISO on the top and compensation on the bottom. Mostly using prime lenses, from 20, 18, 28, 35, exception 28-50/3.5 zoom, 85, 135 and 200/4 No problem those set of lenses fit nicely on the camera and on my hand. But, if I try to mount the more pro zooms, like the 17-35/2.8 the 24-70/2.8 God forgive, the 70-200/2.8 even the f4, it is ugly and very awkward to handle the gear. It would by very useful, if nikon provided for an optional battery grip. Yes, I understand it is a walk around camera with very high IQ, but, still, I like to use it in a pro fashion, with those mentioned lenses as well. One thing I missing on the camera, I can't find the set-up mode to shown the over exposed highlight blinking on the monitor. Not a big thing, I have to be careful and rely on the precis metering system. Still like the camera very much and the quality of images is superior to me, after shooting with the D4 and D3s.<br /> Please excuse my grammar.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>The control handling is very comfortable and simple for me, using the camera on M mode only and shutter dial on the 1/3 step thumb control.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Setting the shutter-speed dial to 1/3 step is effectively disabling the whole thing and leave the control back to the main command dial, just like all other Nikon DSLRs and many late-model film SLRs. I would set the Df up that way, as well. Unfortunately, that traditional shutter-speed dial still takes up a lot of space on the top right side of the camera. As a result, there is only room for a very small LCD on the top of the Df. Just like the consumer DSLRs that have no top LCD, such as the D3000 and D5000 series, the info is displayed on the back LCD.</p>

<p>I tried to align the lens mounts of the FE and the Df such that their film/sensor planes are also lined up. Since film is very thin, there isn't much behind the film plane on the FE. However, on the Df, there are electronics behind the sensor surface, and furthermore, there is the LCD and its electronics on it behind the sensor. As a result, the Df is much thicker than the 35mm film SLRs it tries to mimic.</p><div></div>

<p>I don't think the Df controls work well for many people. For me it works fine and I like it better than using the command dials. I never use the EC although I found it's easy to adjust with the camera up to my eye. I rather switch to manual in this case and no I don't use auto ISO. I wouldn't change ISO often so it's not a problem. I always use the aperture ring for aperture except when using G lens which I only have 1 of them. I use the shutter speed dial. I only use A mode if I think the meter would give me good exposure. If I don't think so I use M mode. Guess the exposure, take a shot, chimp, adjust then shoot. With practice I actually don't need to make the adjustment most of the time. </p>

Thanks for the extra feedback, everyone. I really don't expect to find the Df to be the camera for me

(though I have to admit that I could use the sensor's performance sometimes), but I remain intrigued by

the design, so I'll look forward to playing with one when I eventually get the chance (with Bjorn's

comments about adapting style to the camera in mind) - and to Shun's full review, of course.

 

Something that troubles me about the motivation for a Df is that there were a lot of calls for dedicated

dials, but I'm far from sure that everyone agreed on which dials should go where. It's less a problem in a

"reconfigurable dial" design because, excluding Canon's "iPod wheel" and the Samsung on-lens dial, there

are only so many ways to configure them (and what's left is somewhat programmable). Bela isn't the first

I've heard to say they wanted fixed dials in a different configuration to the Df - I think Nikon were always

going to suffer some of this, and had to pick an arrangement; a DSLR just isn't used (fully) like an F4, and a

simple copy isn't enough. Given that I keep complaining about the buttons on the left shoulder of the

camera, I guess I shouldn't be surprised that I disagree with Nikon about putting dials there too. I

commend them for trying something different, especially to get people who aren't upgrading existing

customers (which is a category Thom believes is already in Last Camera Syndrome territory) but I can see

it's a pretty thankless task, especially from those of us who might have bought a D4-sensor-in-a-D610.

 

I'm glad there are some happy owners, though. I was initially worried that the design would be so badly

compromised ergonomically by its underlying principles that it would be painful to use (rather than sit on a

shelf and look - arguably - pretty). It appears that, while there are issues at least under some

circumstances, it's working for some of its owners. So long as the people who put their money down for

this are happy, I'm much less concerned. Now we just need Nikon to make the cameras that the rest of us

were hoping for.

<blockquote>

<p>I never use the EC although I found it's easy to adjust with the camera up to my eye. I rather switch to manual in this case and no I don't use auto ISO. I wouldn't change ISO often so it's not a problem. I always use the aperture ring for aperture except when using G lens which I only have 1 of them. I use the shutter speed dial. I only use A mode if I think the meter would give me good exposure.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>On the Df, the controls that are of retro style are:</p>

<ul>

<li>shutter speed dial</li>

<li>ISO dial</li>

<li>exposure compensation dial</li>

<li>exposure mode "SPAM" dial, while only the FA had this feature back in the manual-focus era.</li>

<li>The sub-command dial on the Df is different, but this dail didn't exist until the F5 in 1996.</li>

<li>Additionally, the on/off switch and the battery compartment door is different.</li>

</ul>

<p>It sounds like Bebu Lamar is not using most of the retro controls on the Df, at least not using them often.</p>

<p>I am attaching a side-by-side top view between the Df and D800E. It is clear that the old-fashioned controls take up a lot more real estate. For example, a small button for ISO control becomes a large dial that occupies the entire top left on the Df; traditionally, the ISO dial is large so that it can have fine 1/3 stops. Another small Exposure Compensation button becomes another large dial on top of the ISO dial.</p>

<p>The shutter speed dial is not as large as the ISO dial so that it cannot have fine 1/3-stop increments, which never existed in the manual-focus era. And if you need the very slow 8, 15, and 30 second shutter speeds, you have to use the main command dial. (Incidentally, most Nikon DSLRs let you choose between 1/2-stop and 1/3-stop EV increments; on some of the higher-end ones, 1 full stop is also an option. However, on the Df, because it is limited by the physical dials, the only option is 1/3-stop increments.)</p>

<p>I have mentioned before that I have gotten accustomed to the large grip since the F4 and N8008/F801 from the late 1980's. Essentially you wrap the entire length of your fingers around the grip for a firm hold of the camera. Since the Df's grip is small, there is a gap between my right hand and the grip. I find that uncomfortable.</p>

<p>Notice that the AE-L/AF-L and AF-On buttons stick out by a different amount from the body. I think that is a nice touch from Nikon. Overall, the Df is a well made camera. I think Nikon is trying to compromise among the retro design, features/capabilities, having as small FX DSLR as possible, and price. Naturally they are not going to please everybody. I wish Nikon had made the features on the Df the equivalent of a D800 instead of a D600/D610; if that meant the Df would be a $3500 camera, so be it. I would imagine that most of those who prefer retro and/or collectors can easily afford a $3500 price tag.</p><div></div>

<p>I would use the shutter speed dial often although it's in full stop interval. I never use the EC control. I use the ISO dial but not often only going into different lighting condition like noon vs evening. Outdoor vs indoor etc... I use the aperture ring often but this can be done on most higher end Nikon DSLR's. I use the SPAM to switch between A and M mostly. <br>

I do use the P but only when my wife uses the camera and it would be on full auto possibly auto ISO as well and with my only G lens. It would be a true P&S then. </p>