Leica Freedom Train rebuttal

More fodder for the trough <a

href="http://pindelski.org/Photography/2006/07/24/i-like-leicas-as-much-as-the-next-man/">http://pindelski.org/Photography/2006/07/24/i-like-leicas-as-much-as-the-next-man/</a>

The camera looks to me like a FSU fake. The cable socket in the shutter release and the flared surround in addition to the black (or maybe grey?) bezel on the Elmar (?) are suspcious I can't tell much about the line of the top of the RF housing but the whole thing look like the stuff the Ukraine artisans are putting out on eBay today. Additionally the serial number would be in the Compur Leica range. No one has ever denied Leitz made a lot of gear for the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe but I don't suppose they had much choice. I'm not in denial about this issue but a valid rebuttal can't be made on this basis.

I don't see much of a rebuttal. He is not providing evidence that they did not help their Jewish

employees flee the country. As a major optical manufacturer in a fascist government, they

would have been required to manufacture optics for the government and armed forces. There

was no option to say, "no, we are not going to manufacture goods for the war effort". The

same went for almost all the countries involved in the war. There were material requisitions,

rationing, the draft (which is essentially just forced labor) and of course major industries

were required to produce for the war effort. Most times this was voluntary, but these

corporations couldn't just claim neutrality. They had to resist in more subversive and subtle

ways, like ferrying their employees to safe countries and so on.

http://www.gluckman.com/ShanghaiJewsChina.html

To Thomas Pindelski:

 

My grandfather was a cereals and grain merchant in Nazi occupied Netherlands during WWII. He delivered cereals for food production to the Nazis. He had to, otherwise he would have been deported. What the Nazis didn't know is that he delivered cereals to the whole neighborhood as well, saving many people from starvation. He also hid jews away from concentration camps in his warehouse; the same warehouse from which he had to deliver produce to the Nazis. So, all in all, he saved many lives, at the risk of being executed by the Nazis. Now, would you say that he was a complice to the Nazis by delivering them produce?

 

Thomas Pindelski, please be careful with judgements about Leitz and the 'Leica Freedom Train'. I think Leitz was a very brave man. Being in that situation is a bit different than typing your judgements behind a computer screen in a free country...

 

Jan Dirk

It's correct, his argument is rather weak, if not totally insubstantial. Thanks for the rebuttals to the rebuttal! Can anyone verify the original story about Leica protecting Jews in the war?

Claude, it is documented by Frank Dabba Smith in his book "The Leica Freedom Train" ...

 

http://zonezero.com/magazine/articles/leica/index.html

Thanks for the link Trevor!

Please try this also....

 

http://nemeng.com/leica/binz/fdsmithleitz02.zip

 

Warning it is about 5400 words and on my machine displays with no paragraphs or pagination but you may want to read it.

I think this is the source if you have access to a University library or Jewish archive....

 

Author. Smith, Frank Dabba

 

Title-article. Ernst Leitz of Wetzlar and the Jews

 

Year 1998

 

Journal of Progressive Judaism

 

10 (May 1998) 5-14

It doesn't take much rooting through 'intrepid photographer' Pindelski's other stuff (try July 12th, 'Diane Arbus - Fake' for starters) to get a snapshot of his cynical mind-set. His burden, not mine.

If you want to believe the printed word every German company, and I mean every German company which still exists today and was active in the 1932-1945 period opposed the Nazi government and helped the Germna/Jewish population at some point in time. They have saved no effort and certainly not money to "PR" this out to the world. In fact companies that existed at time, and still exist now have helped the Nazi Government not only by producing "war-effort" goods but also with huge party donations, if they didn't comply to this they would not of existed today.

 

I think the Leitz story is partly true but hugely overdrawn, at that time most of their top-engineers were Jews and wanting to keep the know-how in the company they would of re-allocated them to overseas, the Usa in this case.

 

It would be a great thing for Leica users to accept the freedom train information as it is, but it is hardly believable.

 

The NS files have been opened up to the public this year, something which has been tried to cover up for a long period of time, this will cause this sort of information to verified. Why do you Nobel prize winner Gunter Grass has just recently come out of the closet admitting he was a Waffen SS member in war ?

 

Lots of other tuths and untruths will be exposed ober the next period of time concerning German industries and their exact level of participation during the NS reign in Germany, incuding that of the Leitz family.

And what about the economic, military and ethical/moral position of Ford, General Motors/Opel, Esso, Kodak and other foreign companies in Germany? And don't forget Zeiss, Schneider, Schott, Rodenstock, BASF, Agfa-Gevaert. Philips, Royal Dutch Shell & van den Bergh & Jurgens (Unilever) in Holland? Renault, Peugeot, Citroen & Michelin in France? Even Bolex, Longines, Omega and others in Switzerland? And the international banks ....

 

There was also the 'temporary blindness' of politicians, including Roosevelt, Truman and Churchill, to the ethnic cleansing of Europe. And so on ......

No one is questioning that Leitz supplied optical equipment to the German armed forces. What is important that in an openly anti-semetic political climate, Leitz senior management and family members made a consistent and personally risky effort on behalf of their jewish employee staff. At that time, Leitz could not have been a large firm, I wonder what percentage of the work force was moved to the USA. I remain curious if Zeiss or any other optical firm with a large US presence made a similar effort. What should also be discussed is if there are USA firms in addition to Leitz who took in jewish technicians and scientists. I personally know of one placed at EK, and there may have been more, both at EK and other firms.

Just noticed a reference to an evidently new biography of Ernst Leitz II published this year in Germany, 50 yrs after his death. The book evidently includes an essay by Frank Dabba Smith. <p>

 

<a href=http://www.leica-camera-user.com/customer-forum/2874-new-book-life-ernst-leitz-ii.html>descriptive reference</a> <p>

 

I cannot read German and hence cannot say anything about the new book.

Gunther Grass, though admittedly was in the Waffen SS, categorically denies ever firing a shot

or even knowing about any attrocities going on. I wish I had a nickel for every German who

was of age and fought in WW2 and said they didn't do anything or know of anything. His

new book, "Beim Hauten der Zweibel", explains nothing.

I wonder how long it will take for us to get over freakin' WW2

What Rene says. Forgive and forget is my motto.

hopefully never , Rene.......

"Think only about the past and lose one eye. But forget the past and lose both eyes" -

 

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

..forgive but not forget...

"Forgive and forget is my motto."

 

Given the limits of human lifespan, the 'forgive' part will soon inevitably be moot. But surely you are too intelligent a person to propose to other intelligent people that it's wise to forget history.

Unedited Google Germanglish translation of the book blurb from Michael's link:

 

"There are only completely few products, which possess world-wide a so large Bekanntheitsgrad, like the Leica. Their myth is inseparably connected with the name of the producer, which appears also in their designation: Leitz Camera. The optical works Leitz in Wetzlar had already at the beginning 20. Century a exzellenten call as a producer of optical-fine-mechanical precision instruments. The foundation-stone for it certainly Ernst Leitz to Ith put nevertheless only his son, Dr. Ernst Leitz II, from the Wetzlarer idea ideenschmiede �global more player� created. He had taken over the guidance of the Leitz of works after the death of the father 1920 as an exclusive boss. The life's work of this modern Industriellen and successful entrepreneur as well as humans Ernst Leitz II acting in various way politically thinking and it concerns in the illustrated contributions, letters, responding and anecdotes of this book. The publisher, his grandchild Dr. Knut bold Leitz, has it on 15 June the 1956 deceased the large German entrepreneur to 50. Day of death dedicated."

wha? that must be Engleutsch . .

I see nobody has mentioned IBM!