Iskra with faulty film advance (overlapping frames)

After reading so much praise on the Russian Iskra folders, I ended up

buying one despite my general mistrust of these kinds of cameras. My

Iskra 1 came in a used, but otherwise good condition, with all things

working as they should (well, except for the slowest shutter speeds

which are a little too slow). The rangefinder is bright and accurate,

the glass is clean and fungus-free and the bellows light-tight. I put

in a dummy roll to check the frame counter and advanced the film till

I couldn't turn the knob any more, opened they back and the backing

paper was showing the film was properly advanced ("1").<p>

 

So I went out and shot my first test roll. And it turned out that the

frame counter / film advance mechanism is working rather erratically.

Some frames overlap by merely one or two millimeters, some have

sufficient or more than enough space between them, and one was nearly

halfway overlapping its neighbors. Duh.<p>

 

I had of course noticed the ruby film window that had been cut into

the camera's back and pressure plate, but since it was not in the

middle of the film path (and instead using the 6x4.5 frame numbers) I

had hoped that this had only been made to check if the film was

advancing at all. No mask for the 645 format had been inside the

camera, so I had not suspected that the camera had been modified for

it.<p>

 

Well, now I am a little stumped in what I can do. I guess that fixing

the frame counter mechanism is way out of my league, especially since

even a previous owner had rather cut that ruby window (with a metal

cover slide) into the back. So my first question would be how to get a

mask for this camera? Has anyone a spare that he could sent me? Or

some tips how I could make one with normal household equipment (and no

metal workshop available)?

<p>

And I wonder how anyone could use the camera with a 6x4.5 mask,

because the frame counter would still be trying to count 6x6 images.

So if I had the mask, how could I stop advancing the film when the

frame numbers show up in the ruby window? Isn't the frame counter

interlocked to the double exposure prevention, so to be able to press

down the shutter release the frame counter must have been advanced

properly until the advance knob cannot by turned any further?

<p>

Is there any other way to prevent overlapping frames -- like putting a

strip of cardboard on the take-up spool or somehow putting more

pressure on the roller over which the film runs? Or should I put this

down to experience and try to forget my dream of having a reliable,

coupled-rangefinder medium format folder camera (especially in 6x6)?

Suggestions anyone? Your help is greatly appreciated!<div></div>

According to previous postings my a Russian member of the Kiev Report these cameras were popular with street photographers and when the delicate film coucnting mechanism failed they cut ruby windows in the back - there is no origianl mask all are homemade.

 

His advice was to avoid ruby window cameras as the were fairly well beat. You can search very old articles on the Keiv Report on the Keivaholic website. The same contributor gave some repair instructions for the frame counting mechanism. Best thing is to return it to the seller as "non-original" if that is an option.

I have exactly the same problem, and I think it is rather frecuent. I will try to explain it with my poor english.

 

When you presss the shutter release (in the camera body) it, in the first place, trips the shutter in the lens by the mechanical coupling, and then, pressing further, connects the button release lock, by releasing a thoothed wheel (it is actually a double wheel) previously locked by a little arm with a spring. This wheel moves when you feed the film, and the space between the wheel's theeth, controls the length of film between frames. According to my observations, when you trip the shutter, the wheel advances a little, just enough to liberate itself from the locking arm, without feeding the film. If the wheel advances too much in this action, then there is too little turn to advance until the next thooth, and the frames will overlap.

 

Until now I have not found any cure to this (It will probably requiere major disassembly of the counter mechanism). But I have found also that it is less frecuent if you:

 

- Press the shutter in "two times": first you press the shutter release until the linkage actually trips the shutter in the lens, but without disenganging the counter mechanism. Then you press further VERY slowly. This seems to minimize the advance of the wheel.

 

- Feed the film VERY slowly.

 

With this procedure, I obtain in average two (slightly) overlapping frames in five films.

 

Hope this helps.

I have compiled some of the comments by the Russian engineer I mentioned:<p>

 

 

 

now I can tell you the exact reason why Iskras are said to be failure-prone because of their bad automatic frame counter. Some of those cameras available in different places were retrofitted with ruby windiws, or tampered with to 6x4.5. The old people selling photo stuff in Moscow, at Vernisazh market, told me all in single voice that Iskra was not used in 60's primarily by the amateurs, as it was designed for, but the Russian professional ID photographers widely used it. You see, it was relatively cheap, and due to its large format allowing the contact printing, the availability of rollfilm and its easy developing (compared with sheet film and plates) it has been very popular among ID photo takers. The excellent speed and perfect sharpness of Industar-58 even at 3.5 gave it a special charm, too. Moskva folders were not popular for atelier work because their lenses perform their best stopped down to 11 or more, so the lighting and the long exposure were quite problematic. Salyut with its MF was way much expensive for anyone, and not regularly available. All those adaptations and retrofitting was done to make more prints from one roll and just to fix the camera broken after some 30 rolls of film was put through it everyday for, say, three years. ?.The true reason for the broken counters and modified bodies is not a bad craftmanship or faulty materials, but a heavy use because of this notorious Soviet poverty. There is an another USSR-style paradox: the camera was relatively cheap for consumer, but only about 37000 Iskras were made because the production proved to be too expensive. So the only Iskras that were kept by the amateurs are good - all those passed through the professional hands are worn beyond any limit. If you are a proud owner of a working Iskra, you may feel relaxed - with a normal load it will break only in 150 years or something :))<p>

The counter operates correctly only when the camera has the film inside, firmly pressed to a measuring wheel by a small polished thingie on a back. Either the measuring wheel unit axes get broken (that's the worst thing), or the measuring wheel gets a bit loose and doesn't catch the counter gearing with its tiny star-like gear properly. The second case is a most common one, as I was told by the repairmen with 40-year experience, and if the gears are not damaged, is easy to fix. One just needs to adjust the pressure level needed to push the small gear firmly against the counter transmission gears (top plate removed, and the film inside), and voila - it all works again :) Maybe the biggest drawback in all this play is a waste of film - it's close to impossible to use a single roll twice, the film and paper gets all punctured and the wheel itself won't catch it anymore :))<p>

unfortunately most of the Iskras went the way of heavy use - that's why they are so difficult to find in a completely working state. In some of them I have seen the film guide on the back polished to brass by a film paper backing... The removal of Iskra top plate is easy. First, remove the winding knob by carefully unscrewing its central screw with a special key or tweezers. Then remove the camera back and locate two rather crude-looking screws in the upper parts of film compartments. Unscrew both of them. The third screw keeping the top plate in place is under a plate on accessory shoe. Unscrew the small stop screw on accessory shoe platform, and gently remove the small spring-loaded plate with a dental pick or some small hook. You will see the screw under it, unscrew it and the top plate should come off easily. Don't overtighten the screws when reassembling, the metal is rather soft. <p>

This small star gear connecting the measuring wheel with the frame counter is a main source of problems with heavily used Iskras - either the star goes bad, or the axes become worn and break. That's why the right amount of film pressure against the wheel is so important. Usually two-three drops of light oil will be enough - there is no much places to lubricate. Check if all the springs are in places, they are numerous :) Blow the RF compartment with a good amount of air before cleaning.. :)

There are other reliable coupled rangefinder folders, you know. I highly recommend the Super Baldax. This is available with the renowned 3 element Schneider Radionar lens and the Ennit 4 element. I have yet to see a beat up model. It is one of my favourite folders because it fits the hand nicely compared with some. It is 6 x 6 format with a coupled rangefinder. It has automatic spacing which can be overridden via a ruby window if necessary. Prices vary but I have seen good examples go for 50-65 pounds sterling which equates to $87-115.<p>

Other good options include the Certo 6 which uses a 4 element Carl Zeiss Tessar (budget for an overhaul of the rangefinder on this model). There is the Mamiya 6 folder - mine is just back from overhaul so I am looking forward to trying my first film through it. Finally, there is the Agfa Super Isolette on which the Iskra was based. This is a superb piece of kit, but unfortunately prices reflect this. None of these was marketed as a professional camera - that was left to the tlr instead. Consequently they tend not to be a beat up as pro cameras. Their original owners tended to be keen photographers prepared to spend more than the minimum on their gear and they therefore looked after them.

Many Super Isolettes have broken film advance mechanisms (very complicated). Focusing is another problem -often they are stiff and some will not even budge; a total disassembly is necessary to regain a smooth easily focusing camera and every Super Isolette needs to have this done. Bellows are also the bane of most Isolettes and replacement is a pain and requires without special tools.<p>

 

The Iskra is certainly the optical equal of the Super Isolette and you could buy five Ikras for the cost of one Super Isolette.

Thanks for your replies! I guess I will try Javier's suggestions with my next test film. If I become desperate, I might even open the camera and tinker with the gears or give them at least a hard stare. Besides from the overlapping frames the results from my test roll look really amazing -- sharp, contrasty and with nice colors -- and I really want this camera to be my everyday carry-around folder for snapshots. The rangefinder is really great and easy to use.

<p>I think Michael posted some interesting technical and background information here. Ignorant as I was, of course I thought that the Russian engineers should have known that they would be pushing their luck when trying to build the sophisticated frame counter / film advance / double exposure lock mechanism. But if these cameras were the workhorse of many Soviet photographers their poor shape today is understandable. Mine has definitively seen heavy use, the paint behind the focus slide is completely worn off and the ruby window was inserted with much care and craftsmanship, but as I user myself I think all these unique marks only add to the camera's charm.

<p>

And thanks to all who posted other camera suggestions. I'm sorry I forgot to add "<i>inexpensive</i>" to 'reliable, coupled rf mf folder camera' because it is so obvious to me. Of course I'm familiar with the few coupled-rangefinder models, but except for the Iskra they are way too expensive for me (I paid €40 for the Iskra including p&p).

<p>

And finally I wouldn't terribly mind turning the camera into a 645 folder. If someone has some tips on how to get or create a mask I would be thrilled.

Bueh, watch out for good deals. I have bought my super ikonta in excellent shape for 20 euro - just because it has the triplet lens not the tessar, i guess, it was not interesting to many. However the results, as soon as i calibrated the rangefinder, are excellent. Good luck to you.

$53 price gouge for my Super Ikonta!<div></div>

Beuh,

Many Iskra users prefer the ruby windows and seek them out. So as long as you have one learn to love it (what is the saying, if life gives you lemons make lemonade). If you follow eBay listings for Iskra cameras you are certain to come accross a photo of a homemade mask in place and that will give you a clue how to make one. You might email Oleg (ok@okvintagecamera.com) or one of the other FSU repairman and see if he can install a mask for you (or send you one you could install). It is a great lens - well worth the effort.

Interesting thread, guys! My five bobs' worth - I've got a nice Super Isolette, not pristine but working fine, focussing, bellows and all. It has an interesting history, being made from various still-working bits out of two non-functional cameras. Long story just how, so I won't go into detail.

 

The success of that Frankenstein Operation got me interested in the Super-Isolette-based KMZ Iskra, and a few months back I got one on E**y Australia for an absolute song. Not surprisingly going by the previous posts, it also had a ruby window modification in the back door with the original film counter removed. Also, the shutter was a non-goer and several small bits were missing from the film wind set-up, but for the ridiculous price I paid I wasn't complaining - it had only been bought as a Shelf Queen. The main thing is that this Iskra looks fantastic cosmetically, so I can only assume it never had a hard life as a street camera or whatever. Maybe it was just one of those Friday afternoon/Monday morning production models that KMZ were notorious for, and its film advance/shutter mechanisms died an early death before the ravages of useage could take their toll?

 

However, seeing as I still had a lot of Super Isolette bits left over from that original graft operation, it occurred to me in a moment of alcohol-induced stupidity that maybe Time Could Be Turned Back, and the Reluctant Iskra brought back to life with some of those left-over AGFA bits? So, I took the whole box-and-dice into our Perth WA Repair Guru (who'd done the Dr Frank N.Stein bit on the two Super Isolettes originally), and asked him what he thought about the prospect of making the World's First Iskrolette Hybrid. (Or, should it be a Super Isoliskra? Dunno ....!!) The main thing is that he did some quick comparisons after removing this and that, and he reckons the innards of both look sufficiently similar that it could well be worth the trouble, to at least try.

 

He's still working on it, as a low-priority project, but I'll keep you guys posted progress-wise. Why does that expression about the "Child Being The Father Of The Man" keep going through my head? ~~~~PN~~~~

Well, for all interested in this thread: I shot a second roll with my Iskra and used Javier's advise and turned the film advance knob very, VERY slowly. And guess what -- all twelve images did not overlap! I hope that this solution is permanent as the Iskra is a pretty fine camera. Thanks for all your help and good luck with your own cameras!

I inherited a Super Isolette. The focussing was close to bodybuilding even when I got it in the early 80s. Some years ago I applied a few small drops of Molykote into the helicoil of the lens which is luckily visible from the rear and now the focussing works smoth again and doesn't give the smallest reason for complaints.

Bueh, I am glad it works for you also. Some of my frames are just "kissing" (less than 1 mm space between them) but generally they do not overlap. Enjoy your iskra.

Hi, I just received an iskra 2 in excellent cosmetic condition, and also have overlapping frames. My frist two test rolls had only two frames overlapped, each. My third roll, I followed the advice above (advance film very slowly). Every single frame overlapped by exactly just about the same amount! (a few mm). The fourth test roll I advanced the film quickly, and ended up with very erratic spacing, but only two overlapped.

 

Weird :) Possible suggestions?

Well, I don't have a cure for the overlapping frames on Iskra. I just got one from ebay from a russian seller - and it's a beauty. And everything works, lens is clear and spacing is just right on the money. Seller seems to have more of them and some seem to be in a good shape. It only took 2 weeks for it to get here (USA) from russia. Seller id is Kubanoid, and if anyone is interested - check his auctions out. No red windows on his Iskras that I saw. Only thing is - It's a larger camera than I thought. I still like my Welta 6x6 better - smaller size and it's uncoated lens gives colour I prefer to Iskra. Iskra has a great lens, just a bit too much contrast for my taste. Oh, and I really "hate" that guy Jurgen at certo6.com - wink wink ;) - it's because of his site I got into this folder business and loving it, just all my money goes not to build a collection of folders. They just don't make cameras anymore like they used to. I hardly use my Canon EOS anymore. It's all folders in MF now.

<p>Just recently opened up an Iskra 2 which has the same filmtransportmechanism as the Iskra 1.<br />I doubt that anything easy can be done about the overlapping as the framepositions are fixed in the construction of the 2 sprocketwheels. Only thing that would possibly work is changing the ratio of the gearwheels which is something that calls for a very crafty (and enthusiastic) mechanic.<br>

A picture of the filmframe sprocketwheels can be seen here :<br>

<a href="

<p> </p>