How to get permission to photograph in private property?

<p>Not sure if this is the right spot to ask this question or not, but I assume most documentary photographers are fairly well versed in legal issues in photography. Anyway, there are some areas I'd like to photograph, one happens to be in an industrial area in California, there are two lots that are long abandoned but have very interesting looking architecture that's falling apart. I'd really like to take pictures of both areas, from what I understand they're both slated for demolition in the next several months. Anyone know how to do this? I'm pretty much clueless here, I usually shoot in public areas so I've never even considered how to go about asking permission to enter property for taking pictures.</p>

<p>Part of the question is, if I contact the property owner, what's the best strategy to ask permission... is there a good way to spin the request so it's likely to sound ligit and reasonable for them to accept? Should I say I'm doing a documentry shoot, and if so, is there any kind of permit I can get to make me seem like I'm for real?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

<p><em>but I assume most documentary photographers are fairly well versed in legal issues in photography.</em></p>

<p>Let me be the first to say it: Bad assumption.</p>

 

<p>Keith -</p>

<p>Assuming you can find the owner and it's not some faceless corporation - they're questions are likely to be along the lines of - Do you have insurance? (Disability, liability, health, etc...) and What are you going to do with the photos?</p>

<p>If the property is slated for demo - then they shouldn't have a problem from a usage standpoint, but they probably will have one from a liability stand point - what happens if you fall and break something? (either a camera or a body part) What happens if you get attacked while on their property? Abandoned isn't always abandoned. They might make it a stipulation that you go with a security guard or don't go alone.</p>

<p>There's also a branch of street that says - if the building is there and there's no one around - go for it. Don't ask - Don't tell. I don't advocate that approach since it is illegal and you could wind up in a world of hurt, not to mention court costs etc.. </p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

<p>Tell them the truth.</p>

<p>Establish some common ground.</p>

<p>Do research on the owners. </p>

<p>If they like something, you should like it to, at least to get the conversation going with them.</p>

<p>I wouldn't recommend sneaking to get the photos. </p>

<p>I don't sneak, I openly trespass. Oddly enough, I've had the photographer-friendly police force here in San Francisco tell me to go ahead and trespass. The exceptions are when I hear dogs inside the property and when I might want to use the photos commercially later. </p>

<p>I have been turned down sometimes over liability issues, despite offering to sign a waiver, so I don't really bother asking anymore.</p>

<p>Ask yourself the following:</p>

<p>(1) What do they have to lose by letting you onto the property? For answer, see David's post.</p>

<p>(2) What do they have to gain by letting you onto the property?</p>

<p>If potential gains are greater than potential losses, their answer will be "no." If you want to tilt the equation, then find answers to #2. Perhaps there's a public relations angle?</p>

<p>Finally, are there any "no trespassing" or "keep out" signs? I only pose this as a question. What course of action you might or might not choose in response to the presence or absence of these signs is entirely up to you. However, if you enter the property, either with or without permission, I'd take along a friend, a cell phone, and probably a can of mace.</p>

 

<p>If it's easily accessible, just walk in, capture your images, then leave. Simple as that. If there's security onsite, just tell him you're documenting abandoned buildings. If he says okay, cool; if he kicks you out, just walk away. .</p>

<p> </p>

<p>They have absolutely no reason to let you in, be prepared for disappointment when and if you ask.<br>

<br /> I have on occasion done as Jeff has. I don't sneak around, I walk around like I own the place and if anyone ever asked I would tell them I was doing location scouting for an upcoming photo shoot (as if that was obvious and completely normal). I would also however, be exceedingly polite and apologetic if told to leave...</p>

<p>A lot of excellent advice. I would only add to do your homework first on the building and know the current owners. After that it depends on the situation and circumstances, already mentioned. You can always use the excuse it's a great photo opportunity. If you want to do more, like spend time over days or weeks, then permission would help if any security guards are there or someone calls the police. If it's scheduled for demolition, maybe get a photo shoot. </p>

<p>I have to agree with Jeff in that I go where I can go until somebody tells me I can't. My policy is that it is always better and easier to ask forgiveness than to ask permission. The answer to the permission question is almost always 'NO', what I call the business man's no which says if I say no I don't have to deal with anything else. Guns and big dogs and even mean words are something I try to avoid though. Good luck!</p>

<p>I'm with Jeff on this one. If there is a "No Trespass" you can be prosecuted. I tried to get access to a huge used car lot with hundreds of broken down cars for three years. It was a huge lot and the owner actually had a security person sleeping on the location. I talked to the owners wife repeatedly, but the owner-husband would never return my calls. Finally the owner had a big legal problem with the entire lot and cars being sold at a Sheriff's sale. For legal reasons the sale was overturned but a second sale was going to happen in a couple months. I shoot abstracts with medium format equipment and this place was a potential gold mind. Anyway, I decided to hell with it and went on the property early one Sunday morning expecting the owner to eventually show up. I had been shooting for 2 hours when he showed up with an agressive "what are you doing trespassing on my prperty". I had a shot lined up, already to shoot with a Rollei TLR on a tripod. I simply told him I had been trying to get access for 3 years, but he never responded. Then(being prepared) I pulled out 2 abstract prints( leftover invitations from solo shows, nicely reproduced) and gave them to him to keep as examples of my work. Then I showed him the shot I had lined up on the groundglass of the camera. I was as nice as I could be to the guy. The end result was he gave me his card, told me I had unlimited access to the property as long as he owned it and bid me farewell. I really believe having examples of my abstract work with me was what got me the permission. On the other hand I also shoot urban decay and new construction. Forget geting permission, its next to impossible. I shoot these locations usually on sundays when no one is around. I try to keep out of site. However , I still carry s couple prints of my work with me in case I'm stopped. The worse case scenario is that you might get fined, very unlikely. I have never even been thrown off these types of areas. My advice is just shoot it.</p>

<p>I ascribe to the Spirer method. I pop on and shoot. I've never had a problem yet. I don't slink or hide, but I don't take a nap and eat lunch either. I get in take my photographs at an unhurried pace, mark what I might want to come back for and leave.<br>

At one location I go to now and again, some of the neighbors will call the cops if they see you because of vandalisim that has occured there, so now, I just knock on their door and let em know I'm there. Basically, in less you have some clout behind your request to a company to go photograph their abondoned property like a factory, the answer will be no. Some properties will have a security guard, if that's the case you will probably have to see if they'll let you on. Generally they won't. Look out for dogs as Jeff says, they can't read the permission slips. </p>

<p>Keith... By the time you get permission the buildings will be torn down and you'll be kicking yourself for not having the pluck to defy conventional wisdom! Shoot first, ask questions later...</p>

<p>Thanks for the input from everyone. It sounds like an overwhelming majority of folks have found it more or less impossible to get permission ahead of time, so I'll do what I need to do. I'll bring business cards and a few example prints with me to show if anyone comes by. I have a feeling that if I go onto the site on a weekend I'd be 99.9% sure of not being noticed (few industrial areas have people around on weekends like this) and I'll be sure to be totally polite.</p>

<p>Since writing this, I was kicked out of an ecological preserve by a ranger or similar caretaker. I hopped a fence and went deep into the preserve area that had some really unusual looking buildings long abandoned (I still can't figure out what the heck they were doing there). I didn't get the shot I really wanted but I got many others I hadn't expected. The guy reminded me politely that I could be prosecuted for trespassing. I said it wasn't marked where I entered as private (which is very true) but that I was terribly sorry for being there where I wasn't supposed to be. The guy was not particularly understanding and told me to get the [bleep] out, which obviously I did.</p>

<p>It was pretty fun. I'll be sure to do it again. :)</p>

<p>I also discovered that this preserve has community cleanup days on weekends so I volunteered to pick up trash next month. Maybe they won't mind me having several cameras with me while I do it. Haha.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>I have a feeling that if I go onto the site on a weekend I'd be 99.9% sure of not being noticed (few industrial areas have people around on weekends like this)</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Your feeling is wrong. On the weekend and at night, who is in these areas? People with legitimate business, or interlopers? If you were a cop driving through the area on the weekend, and they do, I can tell you that from experience, who would be there? During the week and in daytime, you could be a property agent, an owner, a prosective buyer, a surveyer, a contractor there to evaluate a new building. I avoid weekends for trespassing, it is a much more likely time to get stopped.</p>

<p>Jeff your experience is the exact opposite of mine. If I go onto a construction site during the week while people are working, I get kicked out immediately. In an urban decay situation, at least in Pa, there is usually nobody present on sundays and I stay out of sight for the most part. The more people there are, the more likely you are to get stopped. Maybe its different on the west coast. Mexico is even trickier. There you have the police walking around with automatic weapons. In fall 2000 I was shooting a 20 year old partly constructed, never finished hotel on Isle Mujeres which was clearly marked with no tresspassing signs. The heavily armed police usually only patoled this area midday. It was large enough to easlily stay out of sight. It was a photographic gold mine. It wasn't till the third day that the armed guards crossed my path while I was shooting. They didn't say a word to me, but i got the hell out of there. In a populated private area it seems to me that someone very quickly is going to ask you why are you taking pictures and who gave you permission to do so. Again , just my experience on the east coast.</p>

<p>Jeff it could very well be that our different experiences are the result of shooting different formats. When I am shooting urban decay or new construction or abstracts I am shooting medium format on a tripod which makes me stand out in a crowd. You are probably shooting handheld .</p>

<p>The different experiences can also be the result of where you are. Some places are more likely to be patrolled by police on weekends than others. It depends on the area, how valuable the assets are in a given location, and whether or not there are occupants there or nearby who will pressure the police to partrol the area. That's my humble opinion anyway.</p>

<p>Many years ago I read of a photographer who was very successful at gaining access without permission.He always packed a selection of hardhats or official looking baseball hats with logos..Dressed like management with safety boots and carried a clipboard.He looked like he belonged and the construction workers steered clear of him. He would even access concert venues by arriving early in the day and with hardhat,tool belt,toolbox and roll of electric wire and just walk in with the setup crews.If challenged he would say he was sent by the union and did not care if the work was done as he was getting payed by the hour and their ass was on the line!.Sure the odd time he was kicked out but he had a thick skin.A prerequisite for SP!.</p>