How do I get grainy pictures ?

Discussion in 'Black and White' started by thomas_bergh, Oct 26, 2001.

  1. Hi !
    I want to get grainy pictures without big enlargements 10/15 cm.
    and using the whole negative. I´ve tried Tmax 3200 35mm in
    rodinal 1/50 20° C 16 min. This method was recommended to
    me but I didn`t find the grain large enough. Is there any way to
    get large grain on small prints?
     
  2. The combination I commonly used for this purpose was Fomapan T800
    (which was also sold as Paterson Acupan 800) in R09 1:20.
    Unfurtonately the T800 is no longer made. Try TRIX in Rodinal 1:10 or
    R09 1:20, this should give the effect you are looking for, or -- even
    better -- Forte 400 or Foma 400. The results are tack sharp but VERY
    grainy.
     
  3. The small prints caveat is the problem. Your best bet might be to
    try printing only a small portion of your 35mm negative. You could
    also use a Minox sub-miniature or half-frame 35mm camera. Or you
    could try pushing Tri-X in Dektol, but in a small print I fear you
    would still have finer grain than you are seeking. Finally, you could
    try to reticulate your film by putting it in a very hot water bath to
    see if the emulsion would start to crinkle.
     
  4. I just checked. Moersch Photochemie offers an interesting additive for
    paper developers, which will produce very grainy looking prints from
    "normal" negatives. They call it Lith E Check their website for it and
    the availability.
    http://www.moersch-photochemie.de/html_deutsch/online_workshop/online_
    workshop_l3.htm
    I have not tried the product, but it sounds interesting.
    There are some dealers in Germany who will ship Moersch products
    worldwide, one is Fotoimpex in Berlin.
     
  5. Reticulation unfortunately is no option with most films today. The
    emulsion is hardened to an extent where it just does not work.
     
  6. TriX at 320 in Rodinal 1:25 for 8 minutes.

    <p>

    Grain the size of golf balls.
     
  7. If David's advice doesn't suffice, then process the Tri-X normally
    and then wash in 125 F water. Actually you switch to the high temp
    water at any time after the developer.
     
  8. Put your Tri-X into an oven and heat for 24 hours at 150 degrees F.
    Cool prior to handling it. Develop normally in D-76 or Rodinal. The
    older the film the better it works.
     
  9. any older emulsion film in dektol will give you the large grain you
    are seeking. I process at 75 degrees F and get enormous grain.
     
  10. I think paper grain is indispensible if you want grainy picture. Use
    lith developer. I wish I can find a formula for a lith developer (or
    that developer mentioned earlier)!
     
  11. "Lith" development of high silver fiber papers is getting very popular
    in Europe. Both Moersch and Calbe make such developers. The mentionned
    large grain additive seems to be specially designed for "lith"
    development.
     
  12. I think Kodak has discontinued it's "Recording Film" but if you can
    find some of that stuff... boy you will have grain!
     
  13. No Volker, I'm not talking about 'lith developing' where you use
    highly diluted lith developer to develop an over exposed print for
    prologed periods, I'm talking about using the same concentration for
    film to develop a print; this is not lith developing.
     
  14. You should be able to get Tri-X to reticulate. I have only done this
    by mistake, so I cannot describe the exact method. Try developing at
    normal temperatures, then alternate a hot stop bath, normal temp fix
    and a hot intitial rinse. You will have to figure out how hot too hot
    is.

    <p>

    -Paul
     
  15. As for reticulation :

    <p>

    I have tried to do it on purpose with Tmax, it is impossible. I
    boiled the film (water at almost boiling point) and direclty
    transferred it in ice cold water, and the other way round too, but
    nothing happened. There might be a possibility that it will work with
    another film, though. I would try it with Tri-X and Fomapan or
    Fortepan.

    <p>

    As for the development:
    There are certainly many ways to augment the size of your film's
    grain by development but I don't think that you will ever reach a
    point such as you describe (large grain at 10x15 cm enlargment)...
    Maybe with old films like Kodak Recording, but not with modern ones.
    I would suggest a grain effect mask (you can still find some on the
    market) that you sandwich with your negs when printing them. Lith
    printing sometimes gives a grain effect (not always, though) but it
    looks different than what I think you expect having as a result. It
    also gives strange tonalities that you might not want.

    <p>

    There is a much more controllable and easy way to get the effect you
    want: scan your pictures, open Photoshop, go to Filter-Texture-Grain
    and there you can create any kind of grain you want, controlling the
    size, shape and contrast of your grain. I understand it is not really
    a photographic and romantic way of getting what you haze asked for,
    but it is surely the most effective one... You will just need a lab
    with a digital photographic printer to get the final pictures on
    photo paper. There are (at least in my country) labs that use B&W
    paper in the Durst Lambda printer and so you will even get a real B&W
    print, not a monochrome print on colour paper.
     
  16. My answer is TMZ, rated at 25,000 and process in TMax for around 34
    minutes.
     
  17. Try TMZ exposed at e.i. 1600 in Dektol 1:1 @ 70 degrees for 5
    minutes for HUGE grain.
     
  18. Ed, if that isn't a facetious comment about PMZ at 25000 and 34 mins
    in dektol, what are the shadows like?
     
  19. No, that's real. The shadows are inky black, but the prints take
    sepia toning perfectly.
     

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