How do I get grainy pictures ?

Hi !

I want to get grainy pictures without big enlargements 10/15 cm.

and using the whole negative. I´ve tried Tmax 3200 35mm in

rodinal 1/50 20° C 16 min. This method was recommended to

me but I didn`t find the grain large enough. Is there any way to

get large grain on small prints?

The combination I commonly used for this purpose was Fomapan T800

(which was also sold as Paterson Acupan 800) in R09 1:20.

Unfurtonately the T800 is no longer made. Try TRIX in Rodinal 1:10 or

R09 1:20, this should give the effect you are looking for, or -- even

better -- Forte 400 or Foma 400. The results are tack sharp but VERY

grainy.

The small prints caveat is the problem. Your best bet might be to

try printing only a small portion of your 35mm negative. You could

also use a Minox sub-miniature or half-frame 35mm camera. Or you

could try pushing Tri-X in Dektol, but in a small print I fear you

would still have finer grain than you are seeking. Finally, you could

try to reticulate your film by putting it in a very hot water bath to

see if the emulsion would start to crinkle.

I just checked. Moersch Photochemie offers an interesting additive for

paper developers, which will produce very grainy looking prints from

"normal" negatives. They call it Lith E Check their website for it and

the availability.

http://www.moersch-photochemie.de/html_deutsch/online_workshop/online_

workshop_l3.htm

I have not tried the product, but it sounds interesting.

There are some dealers in Germany who will ship Moersch products

worldwide, one is Fotoimpex in Berlin.

Reticulation unfortunately is no option with most films today. The

emulsion is hardened to an extent where it just does not work.

TriX at 320 in Rodinal 1:25 for 8 minutes.

<p>

Grain the size of golf balls.

If David's advice doesn't suffice, then process the Tri-X normally

and then wash in 125 F water. Actually you switch to the high temp

water at any time after the developer.

Put your Tri-X into an oven and heat for 24 hours at 150 degrees F.

Cool prior to handling it. Develop normally in D-76 or Rodinal. The

older the film the better it works.

any older emulsion film in dektol will give you the large grain you

are seeking. I process at 75 degrees F and get enormous grain.

I think paper grain is indispensible if you want grainy picture. Use

lith developer. I wish I can find a formula for a lith developer (or

that developer mentioned earlier)!

"Lith" development of high silver fiber papers is getting very popular

in Europe. Both Moersch and Calbe make such developers. The mentionned

large grain additive seems to be specially designed for "lith"

development.

I think Kodak has discontinued it's "Recording Film" but if you can

find some of that stuff... boy you will have grain!

No Volker, I'm not talking about 'lith developing' where you use

highly diluted lith developer to develop an over exposed print for

prologed periods, I'm talking about using the same concentration for

film to develop a print; this is not lith developing.

You should be able to get Tri-X to reticulate. I have only done this

by mistake, so I cannot describe the exact method. Try developing at

normal temperatures, then alternate a hot stop bath, normal temp fix

and a hot intitial rinse. You will have to figure out how hot too hot

is.

<p>

-Paul

As for reticulation :

<p>

I have tried to do it on purpose with Tmax, it is impossible. I

boiled the film (water at almost boiling point) and direclty

transferred it in ice cold water, and the other way round too, but

nothing happened. There might be a possibility that it will work with

another film, though. I would try it with Tri-X and Fomapan or

Fortepan.

<p>

As for the development:

There are certainly many ways to augment the size of your film's

grain by development but I don't think that you will ever reach a

point such as you describe (large grain at 10x15 cm enlargment)...

Maybe with old films like Kodak Recording, but not with modern ones.

I would suggest a grain effect mask (you can still find some on the

market) that you sandwich with your negs when printing them. Lith

printing sometimes gives a grain effect (not always, though) but it

looks different than what I think you expect having as a result. It

also gives strange tonalities that you might not want.

<p>

There is a much more controllable and easy way to get the effect you

want: scan your pictures, open Photoshop, go to Filter-Texture-Grain

and there you can create any kind of grain you want, controlling the

size, shape and contrast of your grain. I understand it is not really

a photographic and romantic way of getting what you haze asked for,

but it is surely the most effective one... You will just need a lab

with a digital photographic printer to get the final pictures on

photo paper. There are (at least in my country) labs that use B&W

paper in the Durst Lambda printer and so you will even get a real B&W

print, not a monochrome print on colour paper.

My answer is TMZ, rated at 25,000 and process in TMax for around 34

minutes.

Try TMZ exposed at e.i. 1600 in Dektol 1:1 @ 70 degrees for 5

minutes for HUGE grain.

Ed, if that isn't a facetious comment about PMZ at 25000 and 34 mins

in dektol, what are the shadows like?

No, that's real. The shadows are inky black, but the prints take

sepia toning perfectly.