Has Anybody Received their D850?

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by ShunCheung, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. Sandy Vongries

    Sandy Vongries Moderator Staff Member

    Haven't had a "bum" product from Nikon in the nearly 50 years I have been using them. Sorry you were unlucky. My D 750, which was recalled was working perfectly, but I sent it in an excess of caution - they repaired and returned it quickly, and for free. There are always individual situations that can sour a person on a manufacturer, but I think that how a person responds, positive or negative, has effects as well. Note - all of my Nikon gear going back all those years still works.
  2. Fair enough, Sandy. But the D600 fiasco was a PR nightmare of Nikon's own making, thanks to prolonged denial of the oily sensor issue that made the company look arrogant and out-of-touch with its customers. They did finally make it right but only after staring down the barrel of possible class action proceedings in the US. Delaying purchase of new models and waiting for possible defects to surface now seems to be "best practice" for Nikon's customers.
  3. > Delaying purchase of new models and waiting for possible defects to surface now seems to be "best practice" for Nikon's customers.

    I do have to admit that my D850 purchase was delayed only partly by cash flow, but also partly by wanting to see whether anything was wrong with it. I got my D800e - delayed by the -e model shipments to the UK arriving some time after the rest of the world got their 800s - late enough to be wary of the autofocus issue when I got it. The D810 recall was very minor and again I'd waited a few months, aided by the slop of Nikon's pricing in the UK. The D700 I got as soon as it was available, but it was basically a D300 body and a D3 sensor, so I trusted there wasn't much to go wrong - plus I wanted it before I went on holiday (the 5D2 would have been too late, and the D700 is the camera for which I switched systems).

    So I wasn't too upset at waiting for my finances to improve and the price of the D850 to drop. I'm glad I've not heard of any major issues so far, though. I hope Nikon have improved their QA a bit (so I can get back on to them about adding some bios features). And yes, it's not just Nikon - and I'm still waiting to have the chance to find out whether my Mavic Pro has the 1080 resolution problem. Still, the D3 gained some sales because of the 1Dmk3 autofocus, so Nikon should be aware that QA can really cost customers.
  4. Are you serious about these 2 aspects being granted by mirrorless cameras only?
  5. Mirrorless images are no easier to process than from a DSLR. They may be harder to the extent I now take so many more images. Oddly, at 20/second with a Sony A9, processing is easier than expected. I take short bursts (10-20 images) then select the best one of the series - eyes open, hands positioned well, etc. The number of hits per session is very high, even though most shots are ignored or discarded. I can do this in complete silence at the venue, unlike another photograph who was escorted out for indiscriminate clicking this weekend.

    None of my Nikon lenses, purchased between 2000 and 2005, are up to dealing with a 45 MP sensor. The expense of replacement is something to consider, unless web images are your most demanding medium.
  6. Well, delaying the purchase is the only option that seems available currently, as many people who preordered very early still have not received the camera. I'm sure that there will be some price reductions after the initial demand has subsided, so in that sense it makes perfect sense to wait and get a few hundred off the initial price perhaps.

    While I understand that use of an electronic display (either back LCD or an EVF) keeps one updated on how the exposures will look (though that in dim lighting, viewing the bright image of an EVF can reduce our eyes' adaptation to the dark environment and on the other hand in bright sunlight the shadows tend to be blocked), most of the time my post-processing involves image selection and choosing a set of images that work best together to show the event that I'm photographing, and fixing exposures isn't such an issue. Digital is certainly easier to work with than slide film was, regarding exposure, color and printing. I guess the main issue today that because of the impression of each image being "free" (the incremental cost is low per image after the initial investment has been made) one tends to overshoot and then have a lot of post editing work because of that, leading to rather a large cost for those extra images in the end.

    My experience is that increased pixel count with the same sensor size tends to make lenses that produced mediocre results on low resolution sensors decent on high res sensors, when considering the final image at the same size. The improvement in sensor component of the MTF improves the overall result even when the lens is kept the same. Thus I don't buy the argument that one needs to buy new lenses to use high resolution sensors. I think it's the opposite: a low resolution sensor really needs top glass to get the system beyond a certain level of quality whereas the same level of quality can be achieved using a high resolution camera and lower resolution lens. So a high resolution sensor can save money on lenses in that way. Of course if one shoots way too many images then the large size of the raw files can be a pain work with.
  7. ...It's not only about the weight, but control, 100% exposure control and almost 0% post processing work.
    > Are you serious about these 2 aspects being granted by mirrorless cameras only?

    I'd interpreted this as Paul liking the default JPEG rendering from his camera. I don't dislike Nikon's, but I absolutely do everything in DxO (another reason to delay D850 purchase - their support isn't ready yet) and Photoshop given the opportunity. This is kind of my problem with using an EVF - it'll show me the way the camera would render a JPEG of the scene, but not how it would appear after I've applied custom tone mapping, for which I'd rather have the full dynamic range available. Maybe I'd change my mind with an EVF that had 14 stops of dynamic range. I'd probably do less post-processing on, say, a 5D mk3, but that's because the reduced dynamic range gives me less chance to recover things; indeed, I recently processed some images that a friend had captured of the recent eclipse when I leant him my GF2, and the sensor quality did mean there wasn't much I could do to improve on the default images. I'm not sure that's true of a modern mirrorless body, even in micro 4/3.

    I can't say I do a lot of extra post-processing work for duplicate images, Ilkka. I absolutely over-shoot, but I can usually pick a selected image fairly quickly. Of course, most of my images are obviously poor. :)

    As always, a better sensor capture does acquire more information, but I interpret the "get better lenses" option as "if your lens is less good than this, you're not getting the advantage from the sensor that you're paying for" - or to put it another way, you'd get better quality by putting a better lens on a worse sensor. Of course, "paying for" is negotiable - a D850 costs less than, say, an Otus 85mm. It's always a matter of balance between the lens and the sensor. Also, software is quite good at recovering lens detail, but it needs sensor information to do it. It's certainly true that lens issues (such as CA) can be hidden by a lower-resolution sensor, so the extra "detail" you're capturing may actually contribute negatively to the final image (at least until further processing) - but by the same argument, I've had images in which I've missed focus badly or had unacceptable motion blur, and the simple solution has been to downsize the image until the issues are no longer visible.

    I'd have much less trouble with the size of raw files if I was better at throwing them away. :) Still, a 4TB external drive has held quite a lot of shooting for me, and they're not *that* expensive. But I'm not shooting every day.
  8. Ironic: The author of this article claims he was almost scammed at eBay for selling his D850 at close to $1,000 above B&H price.

    I have always found eBay to be a safe place to buy if one knows what one is doing. Also a safe and fair place to sell as evidenced by my own experiences. It looks like a buyer almost scammed this opportunist.
  9. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Moderator

    Therefore, this guy received a D850 from B&H early on, and he decided to sell a $3300 DSLR for $4200 on eBay to make a quick profit, due to the initial shortage. And then he thought he had a buyer willing to pay $900 over retail for his new D850 ...

    I am afraid that greed clouded his judgment.

    As they say, when it is too good to be true, regardless of whether (1) someone is willing to sell you something at a ridiculously low price or (2) someone is willing to pay you a ridiculously high price, it usually is.
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
    Mary Doo and Sandy Vongries like this.
  10. Dpreview report on their findings of AF performance of the D850:

    Nikon D850 First Impressions Review

    It seems the camera does quite well considering the resolution of the sensor but can occasionally lose subject focus during 3D tracking of a zig-zagging biker. They rate the burst AF tracking performance to be better than A7R II, D810, and 5Ds R, but somewhat lagging behind D5. I wonder if they used the MB-D18 and EN-EL18(a/b) battery in this bicycle test. The faster mirror movement (with EN-EL18(a/b)) could improve AF tracking performance during burst shooting. I guess if they didn't use it then they will be updating their findings using the grip and battery.

    I don't find this entirely unexpected (Matt Granger also found that the D850 doesn't 3D track as well as the D5) but it would be nice if it turned out the grip and battery reduce the difference. I don't use 3D tracking often but mostly use D9, single point, group area, auto area, D25 in this order of frequency. I think 3D tracking works well in the D5 but it can sometimes slip off the subject when the line of sight is obstructed and this is perhaps why I don't use it. If line of sight is held intact then it does 3D track very well. However this isn't a feature I "need" in my photography; I'm happy to wiggle my AF area around as needed and if there is no time, I've found auto area to work well e.g. for ice dance.
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
    Andrew Garrard likes this.
  11. I use 3D tracking quite a bit (I frame the image, but my subject's eye may move in it); I may be better with the joystick available, but I'd like it to be as good as possible. I, too, am hoping that the grip makes a difference to mirror black out time and that affects it - although I imagine it'll still be some way behind the D5 even so.
  12. I find it utterly useless in the D810 but performing reasonably well in the D500. Surprisingly, it also seems to perform rather well in my Sony A7II (certainly better than in the D810). Certainly works well in the A9. Never used it in the D300 - after initial tests revealed its utter uselessness.
  13. I guess the subject and how its color differs from the background plays a great role in how the 3D tracking can keep track of a subject. I have found it to work well for people walking in a city environment (using D5, with face priority on). However, if another object passes between the main subject and the camera, the 3D tracking often loses the subject. Otherwise I feel it is a well implemented feature. I donโ€™t use it often simply because I find other AF area modes handle the crossing of paths better.
  14. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Moderator

    Concerning Auto Area AF and 3D AF tracking, I am sure that the Multi-CAM 20000 AF module (D5, D500, D850) is far superior to the Multi-CAM 3500 (D3, D300 ... D800, D810, D7200 ....) Back in 2007/2008, I found 3D tracking pretty much useless on the D300, although Nikon has improved the Multi-CAM 3500 between 2007 to 2017. Auto Area AF on the D5 and D500 works very well for birds in flight as long as the background is clean.

    The Multi-CAM 20000 is a totally different animal altogether, and I am sure Nikon will continue to tweak it.
  15. ... he then tries to blame his own idiocy on eBay, and warning and scaring photographers against eBay. First of all, every seller should know that one should not part with an item until payment is safely secured. No one would give me merchandise until they are sure I have paid for it. On eBay, one should not mail an item to the buyer until the cash has been received by PayPal. Ignorant people like that should shut up.
  16. Probably better to not ship until the money has been transferred away from paypal to your bank account. If it remains in the paypal account and the buyer files a complaint, that money will be frozen until the issue has been resolved. If I am not mistaken, then a buyer can still file a dispute up to 60 days after the date of purchase - so one doesn't know for certain if something has sold until two months later. One of the reasons I've been staying away from ebay for some time now.
  17. Just had a quick look at ebay - quite amazing how many people have spent $1000 or more over MSRP to get a D850. Some are listed as high as $5K+:rolleyes:
  18. Not many were sold though, and some perhaps never went through - like this guy's. eBay is a worldwide organization where anyone can sell anything at whatever price. Surely there are opportunists out there.

    Btw, do you want to buy this battery grip for $100K (link) ? Or have one to sell? ;)
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  19. I checked the "sold listings" - which in itself is not a guarantee that the sale actually went through. Always fun to compare "sold" vs "offered" pricing, especially for Leica products.
  20. ...It's not only about the weight, but control, 100% exposure control and almost 0% post processing work.
    How does mirrorless give 100% "exposure control" and what is that?
    My current dslr has live view, what is the difference?
    Exposure is no issue for me, I use a meter calibrated to my camera sensor. I address it, it is pretty much a mechanical function and I move on to the real reason of the shot. 0% post processing? So mirrorless automatically knows my vision for the shot, accordingly adjusts black and white point, contrast, shadow highlight, color temp not to mention does things exactly as I envision for blemish removal, wrinkle reduction, skin softening, iris and whites, lips and teeth, hair. It precisely vignettes to my taste. It does all that and I no longer have to do post processing? Sign me up. Who has problems with exposure these days. I have a half dozen other techniques to nail exposure , like the zone system, placement of the right side of the histogram on the wedding dress, compensation for spot metering the skin under the eye, metering a gray card, metering a color and knowing the compensation factor for that color and even chimping away like an amateur, etc etc.
    Andrew Garrard likes this.

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