Grainy black and white

I would like to shoot some grainy black and white photos. I have a

few rolls of Ilford HP5 and FP4 for my use(although, I am not

limiting myself to that.)

 

From searching over the forums I understand that HP5 is grainy.

Would this be my best bet? Also should I adjust the exposure or is

the HP5 grainy enough on its own? (I work in a pro lab, so I am

fortunate to have all the equipment at my disposal)

 

Any other grainy B+W film suggestions?

 

 

Thanks

I once tried to push HP5 to 800asa in agfa rodinal but it was not really that grainy. I know that Tmax 400 in rodinal can be quite grainy but it is somewhat horrible too. Maybe TriX in rodinal would be ok but I can't really remember, I did it some years ago. Sorry that was not much help. Maybe TriX in dektol or another print developer could produce grainy images you are in a better situation than most for experimenting. If I were you I would do some tests with TriX in a print developer but as for times to start with I can't really help.

Ilford Delta 3200 and Rodinal.<div></div>

<CENTER> <IMG SRC="http://www.photo.net/photodb/image-display?photo_id=1417798&size=md"> <BR> <I> Tri-X in Rodinal, E.I. 250 </I></CENTER>

<LEFT> <P> <P>

 

Beau has it. Delta 3200 in Rodinal has a neat look to it. <P>

 

HP5+ has pretty moderate grain in most developers. In Rodinal 1:25 it has a nice texture, but the grain isn't huge. You could try it in Rodinal 1:10 or so, but I've never seen times published for that dilution, so you'd need to do some testing. The high alkalinity will promote grain clumping. OTOH, the contrast would be through the roof, so you'd probably need to expose at 200 or so and underdevelop.

<P>

I used to shoot a lot of Tri-x in Rodinal, and the grain from that was pretty good. Great tonality, too. I use more HP5+ now because it stains better in PMK, but Tri-x in Rodinal gives a very sharp, well-defined grain that I like a lot.<P>

It all depends how big you are enlarging it!

HP5+ is definitely not inherently grainy. Its graininess is flexible and depends on exposure and development.

 

For maximum grain and a classic look I'd expose it at EI 800 and develop in Rodinal. You'll lose some shadow detail and see some blown highlights, which might be good for the right types of photos.

 

Another way to get sharp, distinctive grain in large expanses of same or similar toned areas such as skies, skin, etc., expose HP5+ at EI 800-1600 and develop in Microphen. Better shadow detail, fewer problems with blown highlights, depending on how hard you push the film. (FWIW, Ilford claims the true speed of HP5+ in Microphen is EI 500, which is pretty darned good.)

 

For minimum grain and smooth tonality I'd expose it at EI 250 and develop in ID-11, probably 1:1.

 

Another good developer for HP5+ that will deliver results and effective speed comparable to Rodinal is Ilfosol-S.

Tri-X in Rodinal 1:25. Overexpose the negative and overdevelop it. You will get a very

dense negative with lots of grain. I used to do it for like 11 minutes to get grain like:

There used to be a GREAT film that Kodak made... (this is going to "date" me)

it was Recording film and it was beautiful for the ever popular "gritty" picture...

but now a day, everything is fine grain. Your best bet may be TXP over

exposed and over developed and put up with the long printing/burning times

you will have to endure!

I stay away from grain. FP4+ in Rodinal 1:25 is very grainy too me - I can actaully see the grain very evidently in a 3.5x5 print, especially in facial tones and mid greys. I also found HP5+ in D-76 1:3 exposed for 800ASA to be grainy but nice in an 8X10 size print.

The old Kodak 2475 Recording Film was grainy, but the grain pattern of Kodak Royal-X Pan Recording Film, which came before 2475, was much nicer and the grain was bigger. The past 40 years have seen great improvements in film technology, but there are times when big grain is nice. Both films would max out around 3200 ASA (ISO now) but were useable at 6400 if you could sacrifice some shadow detail. Acufine gave the most film speed. When I need big grain I usually use a wider angle lens and crop the negative (kind of like shooting digital...LOL).

Depends how much grain you want.

HP5 should have noticeable grain particulary if you use something like Rodinal. I like tri-x in rodinal @ 1/50 dillution. I'd avoid overexposure/overdevelopment with these films if printing in the darkroom, they will quickly become too dense and contrasty to handle. The tri-x rodinal combination has quite enougth grain for me and it's wonderfully sharp. Sharpness is king for me. For sharpness with fine grain Tmax and ilfosol S 1/9 is great.

If you really want big grain try Delta 3200.

I got some neat grain shooting TMZ at 3200 speed. Printing with high contrast accentuates the grain. As does condenser enlarger.

IMO neither Tri-X nor HP5+ have a lot of grain until you start making fairly large blowups. If it's a lot of grain that you're looking for then use either Delta 3200 or TMax P3200. You use them at EI 1600, develop in D-76 or XTOL and get plenty of shadow detail. If you want high contrast, use a high contrast paper or VC filter. Try one of each and see which you like better. I think that one will suit you.

Years ago, when Tmax 3200 was new - as was my interest in

photography - I developed a roll that gave a wonderful, grainy

result, but by mistake! I've tried a time or two to duplicate it since,

but with no success. As I recall, the film was exposed at 3200

and developed in TMax developer, but I can remember the

dilution or temperature. Maybe somebody else can help here.

Back in the 70s I experimented with large grainy prints. There was a Swedish photographer who was very popular at the time who used this technique for artistic portrait head and figures of women. I liked the effect, but never learned his method.

I found an article that recommended lentification, pre-exposing the entire roll to a short exposure to green light before developing the film, as a means for shooting hand held photos in dimly lit locations. It called for rating Tri-x at 1600 ISO, but to use regular developer and a still bath of 3 minutes in solution of Kodalk Balanced Alkalai and a caveat of not overdeveloping or you'd get too strong a contrast and heavy grain. Bingo! just what I was looking for. Another article spoke of using paper developer in place of film developer, so I combined the two, going whole hog, substituting Dektol for D76 my, then, standard developer. I guessed at length of time. (no data in notes) The negatives looked horribly dense and unprintable, but I enlarged one anyway and was pleased with results. I'll try to upload two photos: my wife reclining outdoors in bright sunlight(gilding the lily,)and a second one taken indoors of a student teacher at the faculty lunchroom-- a tight candid shot of her head and shoulders, as I turned around unexpectedly, nearly putting the camera in her face. I'd never have the nerve to do that today.

 

I promised on another thread, where I mentioned lentification, to upload an example, but the scanned grain didn't look so grainy, but it is, albeit tight.

 

As others said before, it all depends what one means by grainy. The examples shown on this thread don't appear to be all that grainy, to me.

 

Having trouble with uploads. Will send text now, photos when I master uploading jpg files.

 

Les

I'll try uploading just "Claudia reclining."

 

Les

For the best grain, yet holding good shadow detail, use a high speed film like 35mm kodak or ilford 3200 shot at 1600, overframed, and dev in dektol. The secret is to over-expose and dev normal. And of course over frame your subject. Then crop in the enlarger. Any high contrast disappears as the grain is so large and even that the shadows separate slightly and become deep mid tones. Try it. You'll love it.

Printing on high contrast paper is the best way to emphasize grain, so contrary to "conventional wisdom" you should overexpose and underdevelop. Try Ilford Delta 3200 exposed at 400, dev. in any high-acutance developer with about 30% reduced development (Delta 3200 is really about 1000). Then print it on grade 4 or 5. Even 8x10" prints from MF get visible grain by this method.

Kodak TMZ in Rodinal or HP5 rated at 3200 ASA in Ilofrd PQ

Universal diluted 1+6, 20 C, 8 minutes.

You can develop your HP5+ in Dektol and that will explode the grain but as

for remembering the times... testing will have to be done...

Cherie, I've had problems uploading an example of grainy portrait I described above. Changed my graphic software and will try one last launch of it in this thread.

Les