FX-50 failure!

I just got some FX-50, and ran a roll of Delta 3200 through it. The

film was almost blank. Is there any reason why brand-new developer

should be oxidized? After I ran the film, I read all the way through

the instructions, and they say to discard solution A when it acquires

a yellow cast. Well, solution A had a yellow cast right upon opening!

I use Paterson FX-39 and, yup, if it turns yellow (I mean really yellow as it is normally light gold in colour; so don't mistake THAT for yellow)- toss it out. At least for FX-39, I find that Paterson's suggested development times to be too conservative. I usually develop at N+1 for everything. According to the Paterson literature, however, FX-50 is supposed to have a very long shelf-life. Your post is disturbing because I plan to switch to FX-50. I think Godfrey DiGeorgi on the Leica forum uses FX-50 and I've seen some of his posted photographs which are fantastic. Maybe you should try a few test rolls before you give up on it. I have found that FX-39 will oxidize if the seal is broken and the developer left in Paterson's plastic bottle; I now transfer it to a dark glass bottle with seal.

The Paterson times for FX-39, Acutol, and Aculux are way too long for 35mm. The FX-50 was yellow when opened the bottle. Since I had never used it before, I had no idea that this was an indication of oxidation. This was my second - and last - trial of ascorbate developers. My Xtol trial was similar: almost blank negatives.

I think Lex has mentioned a short life with one of the FX developers; can't remember which one. Hans, is there any expiration date on the packaging or bottle? If it's outdated, it should have never been sold to you. Try XTOL again, I've had good luck with it. Perhaps you need to buy it from a high volume dealer???

>After I ran the film, I read all the way through the instructions, and they say to discard solution A when it acquires a yellow cast. Well, solution A had a yellow cast right upon opening!

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Well Hans, it looks like those supposed '40 years' of developing film haven't taught you much--let me see if I have this correct:

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Step 1. Process film in developer<br>

Step 2. Read developer instructions

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Notice any irregularities here??

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I realize you are an enemy of the scientific method (all your cockamamie fantasies about 'edge effects' and other things you stubbornly refuse to provide ANY evidence for), but you should really attempt some very BASIC logical methods when in the darkroom. Try reading the instructions with any new chemicals FIRST. With other more dangerous chemicals, it could save someone's life.

Hi Hans. Some forum members may have had similar problems. See the following post: http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=007234

 

Some people think the recommended development times are too long while others think they are too short. Weird.

<<You do not need very much agitation. I use half of what the manufactureres typically recommend.>>

 

<<After I ran the film, I read all the way through the instructions>>

 

If I were Paterson, I'd be dancing all over your desk for assailing a product without a fair go.

A couple of months ago I had seen some FX-50 in the shop here in Prague but when I came one week later to by one, the shop assistent told me they do not sell them any more, because they had been all oxidized... So, your experience, Hans, only confirms what I have already known. It is said to be very good developer when unoxidized, but who would like to take the risk of spoiling some of the negs?

It seems that if you use any ascorbate developer you should do a calibrated clip test before each film. Maybe it would be better to mix your own just before each session. There are some good ascorbate formulas about.

 

The comment above about reading the instructions ignores the obvious fact that the product should work. I'm sure Hans did read the instructions as far as most of us would (dilution, time etc). How yellow is yellow enough to tip out before even using it once? The manufacturer should supply a graded yellow colour chart so customers could save themselves the bother of assuming that the product would work.

Hans, another thing you might try: go to Ed's unblinkingeye.com and read the article from Patrick Gainor about ascorbate devs. He talks about mixing ascorbate with Rodinal. You might like it and it might change your mind about Rodinal. Hey, it doesn't hurt to read the article.

John Stockdale , feb 16, 2004; 07:31 a.m.

<i>It seems that if you use any ascorbate developer you should do a calibrated clip test before each film. Maybe it would be better to mix your own just before each session. There are some good ascorbate formulas about.

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'The comment above about reading the instructions ignores the obvious fact that the product should work. I'm sure Hans did read the instructions as far as most of us would (dilution, time etc). How yellow is yellow enough to tip out before even using it once? The manufacturer should supply a graded yellow colour chart so customers could save themselves the bother of assuming that the product would work.'</i>

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It is the very last thing on the sheet, and as you say I would have no idea what the 'proper' tint should be.

Jon:

 

I am certainly not a enemy of the scientific method: quite the contrary. I <b>did </b> read the instructions all the way through, but I did not really pay too attention to the last statement about 'keeping properties' because I have just received the product on special order. It should have been fresh, and I should not have to worry about 'keeping' when I am just opening supposedly fresh product!

I tried FX-50 and found that while it produced OK results (though I did get some unacceptable fog on some rolls) it did "die" pretty quickly. It's also expensive. I gave up on it after the first batch. I use Patrick Gainer's phenidone/Vitamin C developer now. The results are very nice. Patrick has been mixing stock solutions in propylene glycol, which extends developer life enormously. There is some discussion about this going on in Usenet right now if anyone is interested.

I suspect that the developer has gone beyond its expiry date. Is there a date on the bottle?

I am currently using Gainer's ascorbate formulas from the Unblinking Eye article... I did have a failure to develop early on which was not the end of the world as these were film/developer tests shot of a table top, so replacing the roll with identical shots was as easy as pulling the next identical roll out of the drawer... However, I started doing clip tests before developing since then, and have not had a failure - proof that I failed to add something when mixing that time, and not the fault of ascorbate...

 

 

I suggest that you take your FX-50 and do a simple clip test... I keep an opened roll in a drawer with a pair of scissors so I can snip a sliver and toss it into the freshly mixed developer whilst I am getting other things set up (bright lights on)... When I have all the containers filled, the bath up to temperature, etc., I fish the sliver out and toss it in the rapid fixer... A minute later if the sliver is black, it is good to go...

 

 

denny

I wish to emphasize that this was special-ordered and should be as fresh as one can get.

 

No more acorbate attempts for me!

I've had very similar experience - blank negatives from FX-50 just arrived as a special order. I was foolish enough to give it a second go with a second order, and the same thing happened. In both cases I used distilled water for dilution. I've never had any trouble with XTOL in the few years that I've been using it, so I'm sticking with XTOL.

 

Helen

Never tried FX-50, but does it need to be diluted before use? I know that XTOL has a

reputation as being very sensitive to bad tap water; there are quite a number of people

who've had failures after mixing with tap water. I'm on my third 5-liter package now

(mixed and diluted with distilled water), and I've never had anything remotely approaching

a failure. Also, my developer storage procedures for XTOL are far from perfect (plastic

bottles, incomplete air exclusion--I just don't have room for five 1-liter glass bottles).

XTOL is very good with T-grain and similar, especially Delta 3200, especially diluted 1:1.

There is no date on either package. I am going to get my money back!

Hans,

 

The bad thing about ascorbate developers is that there is not much color change with oxidation. What I have found is that water is not what should be used as solvent in stock solutions. Ascorbic acid and phenidone are both soluble enough in propylene glycol to make a stock solution that may be diluted 1+50 with 0.5% carbonate solution. The glycol does not ionize the developing agents as water does. Adding an equal amount of triethanolamine will make a single solution developer with very good shelf life. It is a sulfite free, fine grain, high acutance developer as well.

 

Believe it or not.

Having had two trials with ascorbate, and two failures, I shall refrain from further trials. Back to metol and phenidone....

>John Stockdale Photo.net Patron, feb 16, 2004; 07:31 a.m.

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>The comment above about reading the instructions ignores the obvious fact that the product should work.

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Anyone that has worked in any sort of industry knows there are failures. Too bad you don't understand common sense reasoning regarding trying any new product--especially one that is chemical.

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>I'm sure Hans did read the instructions as far as most of us would (dilution, time etc).

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Thanks for speaking for everyone on photo.net. Next time, try restraining your comments to the person you can <i>actually</i> vouch for--yourself.

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>How yellow is yellow enough to tip out before even using it once? The manufacturer should supply a graded yellow colour chart so customers could save themselves the bother of assuming that the product would work.

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How long does it take to read the instructions and do a quick search of the web? Little time at all compared to pulling out a ruined roll of film.

Hans,

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First you say this:

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>After I ran the film, I read all the way through the instructions,

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Then this:

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>I did read the instructions all the way through, but I did not really pay too attention to the last statement

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Which is it? I hope your film developing methods are not as inconsistent as your statements.

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<i>Whenever</i> I try a new chemical out, I research it fully, ask fellow shooters their results, and take nothing for granted. I do not have darkroom failures other than ones caused by my own inattention.

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Do a clip test to make sure you didn't screw up the film in some other manner. If it is bad, get your money back and move on.

Jon:

 

When I came to the part 'keeping properties', I skimmed it. I was not worried about 'keeping properties' on a just-opened bottle of fresh product.

 

This is going back for a refund.

Jon,

Perhaps you have experience in an industry in which failures are expected and where the contract with the customer makes it clear that the product might fail.

 

But in the world of B&W photography, most products are pretty robust and work well, and have for a long time. This is not rocket science. Almost all of the reports that I have read about developer failure and short shelf life have been about ascorbate developers. In my opinion, these products are not ready for sale, and do their manufacturers much harm.

 

How yellow would be yellow enough to not use it? Would you have picked it?