Fuji announces Finepix X100: ultimate retro awesomeness

Discussion in 'Mirrorless Digital Cameras' started by andylynn, Sep 19, 2010.

  1. http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/19/fujifilm-intros-finepix-x100-12-3mp-aps-c-based-camera-with-hyb/
    I want one. I want one right now. Sadly, I can not have one until next year, so for now all I can do is drool on my keyboard.
  2. The link you give say it is a rangefinder-esque. What does that mean? is it some confusing term like "mirrorless DSLR"? Just by the pictures, I don't think it is a rangefinder at all. Maybe it can manually focus with the magnified EVF or LCD
    Our Pentax forum is talking about this camera too
  3. Looks like a winner!

  4. This dpreview calls it a digital compact. It never says "rangefinder" anywhere. And in specification:
    Focus : High-Speed contrast AF
    In the picture, there is no window for a rangefinder
    The review doesn't say a word about manual focusing, but it looks like the lens has a focusing ring
  5. I don't vouch for Engadget writers' grasp of photography jargon, but if I understand the diagrams correctly it is not a rangefinder in the sense of a coupled rangefinder like a Leica, instead having a prism that lets it overlay an info display onto a simple optical finder or use an EVF that's like an M4/3 or NEX.
  6. The link you give say it is a rangefinder-esque. What does that mean? is it some confusing term like "mirrorless DSLR"? Just by the pictures, I don't think it is a rangefinder at all. Maybe it can manually focus with the magnified EVF or LCD​
    You are overthinking.
    Their statement just means that the design looks something like a classic rangefinder.
  7. the design looks something like a classic rangefinder​
    I am so familiar with classic rangefinders and that's why I see it doesn't look like a classic rangefinder rightaway (without thinking). It looks similar to many P&S like the Kodak Easyshare cameras with optical viewfinder.
    Fuji does listen to my complaint about cameras without viewfinder (and I really love Fuji for that). This camera gives me both things that I want, an EVF and also an optical viewfinder with shooting info displayed. I believe no other camera ever have that, even a DSLR with liveview doesn't have an EVF and I cannot view (Live or Dead) anything on the back LCD
  8. This makes me forget about wanting an M9 =) I love the retro rangefinder styling. Is it a fixed-lens rig?
    I hope the concept takes off and spurs other companies to build their own. With a licensed M-mount.
  9. Yes, the lens is fixed at 23mm (35mm equivalent, arcording to dpreview). How often do you shoot at that focal length (which is about 16mm on a Canon 50D)? That is so bad that maybe dpreview is wrong and 23mm is the real focal length (not a 35mm equivalent rating). Maybe they meant to write (35mm, 35mm equivalent)
    It's nowhere near the M9 because it is NOT a rangefinder and the lens is NOT interchangable which allows shutter in lens design instead of shutter in body design, it may not have manual focusing either. A good thing that is the price will not be high (and this is really the main concern of a lot of customers)
  10. "How often do you shoot at that focal length"
    All the time. My walkaround lens on the 5D is the Voigtlander 40/2.0, my main lens on my Mamiya 7 is the 65/4.0, I loved the 60mm lens on the Fuji GS635S. 35mm is just right for photographing random things. Wide enough that you can fit it all in, yet not crazy wide so moving in for a closer shot doesn't result in dizzy.
    (FWIW: 23mm is the real focal length, and 35mm is the equivalent. It's an APS-C camera. It's exactly the same as 23mm (not 16) on a Canon 50D.)
  11. I want one.... and I am a 100% film user! It just looks nice!
  12. Yes!
    I am waiting for this for some time ,now ! I love the optical wiewfinder .the 35mm is the focal length that I use the most on my G9 (70% of the pictures , I think).
    But it's not stabilised , that's a shame , for the low light handheld photography I would liked a stabilised lens (even at F2).
    It interesting to see what 1600 and 3200 noise/detail performance will deliver.
  13. Yawn))).
    Now when it comes in BLACK it will look like a rangefinder ought to look like. :)
  14. Holy, 10 cm MFD (apparently)!

    O' Fuji, deliver with raw files at high sensitivity at least as good as Sony A700 ISO 1600.
    And deliver with price around USD 400.
    And I deliver you a sale.
    BTW, no hood, no sale.
  15. FWIW: 23mm is the real focal length​
    Yes!, that is much better. The specs of dpreview is wrong
  16. How are the specs wrong?
  17. I want one...... *drool*
  18. One big question for me still remains, though I haven't read the dpreview just the engadget one.
    Does it have the responsiveness of a point and shoot or a DSLR in terms of start-up and shutter lag?
    It looks very good, even though 35mm equivalent of 35 is a little wider than I prefer. Definitely catches my eye!
    DS Meador
  19. It's like we're all waiting for the delivery of a baby! This design could fit the bill for me - I learned on rangefinder 35 mm cams in the sixties, and would like something with a larger sensor than my current P&S.
  20. How are the specs wrong?​
    Rob, it's about the term "35mm equivalent". For example, the Panasonic FZ-20 lens is specified (right on the barrel) as 35mm equivalent. 36-432. Which means the real focal length is only 6-72mm
    But dpreview specifies the Leica X1 lens as 24mm (35mm equivalent), and the Fuji X1 lens as 23mm (35mm equivalent). That is easily interpreted as the real focal length of the X100 is only about 16mm. Even if they want to be short, they should have written 35mm (equi.) or better 23mm (35mm equivalence of 35mm).
    That is no big deal, but it did confuse me. I will have to double check when reading dpreview then
  21. John, it has an APS-C sensor with 1.5x crop factor, so the actual 23mm lens is 34.5 crop equivalent. One site did have specs indicating a possible zoom lens choice, but that might have been a mistake.

    As an EXR fanboy, I am awaiting what CMOS + EXR + HybridAF means. Hopefully it's like the F300EXR sensor with on-chip phase-detection sites and 100-800% DR modes, but implemented in CMOS instead of CCD.
  22. Original source?
  23. "Made in Japan is tentative. Production plans are not finalized."
  24. MSRP is U.S. $1750.00. :-(
    I really like the concept though and the size is approximately 5"x3"x2 1/8". :)
  25. Ha! It will take years to drop to nearly quarter of the price; Fuji can keep its camera until then.
  26. Are you shure Les ?
  27. Where did you see that price Les?
  28. Even at that price: if it's as good in built and picture quality as Fuji says, I would get one. They just got it right: viewfinder (not one of those crazy 80% peepholes Canon or Nikon deliver on their G12 / P7000), lens (even if fixed, I don´t care, right now I live with my one and only 50 mm Summicron on my M2, wishing it was a little bit larger), and more important than anything else: handling. Aperture ring, shutter speed dial... simply perfect. If someone's been dreaming of something around 400 USD, well, better go back to some Canikon plastic toy camera. This is more like a 5000 USD Leica clone at 1/3 of the price, and that, to me, is good enough. If Fuji deliveres, that is. One more detail: Fuji has been maker of the finest lenses on earth (only second, often on parr with Leica and Zeiss), they have been good enough to work with Hasselblad, so basically they should be ready to build some real solid digital cameras with a perfect lens. Looks like they were taking the plunge now. As a friend of mine said: it´s 99% perfect. And it would be 100% if only it came out in black paint, too.
  29. Btw, did you notice the DOF preview in the viewfinder? The white area on the distance line indicates the actual (!) DOF. So THAT is one really nice detail! With all those cameras without even a distance scale, let alone DOF markings! To me, this is NOT just one more MTF-sibling or PEN-copy, this is the first photographers camera I have come along in years (at this level, that is, Leica's been there before, but at a cost just out of this world).
  30. This camera is almost a mirror image of the Konica Hexar but for digital. I always found my long-gone Hexar to be very useful and I took some fabulous images wit it, but, like the famous Konica, this Fuji is a bit pricey and a niche product. I'd love to have one but I can think of many other places where $1700 would go to get equipment.
  31. ouch, that is pricey.
    but look at it this way: it's cheaper than a nikon d700+nikkor 35/1.4 AF-S.
  32. I hope Fuji will sell this EXR sensor to other camera manufacturers. EXR is insanely superior to Bayer-pattern at this juncture, when cameras have too many pixels for most uses. Instead of losing resolution and precision by downsampling, EXR gains dynamic range, and the operation is precise based on pixel binning. Here are two examples, the first from a Nikon D40 with 18-55VR, the second from a Fuji F200EXR. Note total highlight burnout on lower left of the D40 shot, despite a minimum of dark areas in the composition, versus retained highlights with EXR. Both are 6 Mp images downsampled 50% (the F200EXR is 12Mp in HR mode but 6Mp in DR mode). EXR is also great for cumulus clouds, if you ever encounter any.


  33. I don't know if I would be a candidate at that price. But I am interested. The X100 is clearly designed to be a photographer's tool in a way most compacts are not. The hybrid viewfinder is brilliant, and the classic control layout is a welcome move for a compact camera.
    We have to wait and see what the performance of the contrast detect AF is like, but I wish they had included IR AF. For those that remember, IR AF was often used on 1980's 35mm P&S cameras with prime lenses. It's very fast, works in total darkness, and its performance is not impacted by light levels. It seems perfect as an AF option for a camera like this. If the IR finds the range use it, if not, fall back to contrast detect. IR distance detection would be so fast that this would not impair the speed of the contrast detect AF. (IR has the limitation of not working past a certain distance, so you probably want both active when shooting wide open.)
    I'm curious as to why Fuji didn't just go for gold and make this an interchangeable lens system. I'm also at a complete loss to understand why nobody else seems to be able to figure out this winning formula. Namely...
    * Big sensor.
    * Fast, sharp prime.
    * Real viewfinder! (Or at least a darn good EVF that's INCLUDED with the camera.)
    * Simple, classic controls.
    * Fast operation.
    You would think that SOMEBODY at Canon or Nikon could figure this out and pump out something similar in the $750 range. I mean really, is the X100 that much more complex to produce than a Rebel?
  34. Bill Tuthill - Hopefully it's like the F300EXR sensor with on-chip phase-detection sites and 100-800% DR modes, but implemented in CMOS instead of CCD.​
    It has an "EXR Processor" and a "customized" Sony CMOS sensor.
    EXR is insanely superior to Bayer-pattern at this juncture,​
    Not from what I've seen. I'd say we're still only about half way to the resolution required to make pseudorandom pattern sensors practicable for general photography.
  35. How often do I shoot at that focal length? A lot. With a 35mm Summicron. HCB shot with mostly a 50mm, and perhaps only a handful of times with a 90mm. It's not the lens or the camera that determines whether or not the photographer will make good photographs, but I'll tell you, shooting street with a dslr isn't exactly the most discreet way.
    The Fuji X100 will fill a niche for a camera that's smaller than a dslr, with all the advantages of a smaller rig.
  36. I want one! Why did it take so long for a company to get it?
  37. For under 1k, I would buy one.
    Under 1.4k, I would think about it seriously
    Over 1.4k, I would merely yawn
    With the 4/3rds, NEX and recent announced Samsung APS-C, I could buy a cam and 2-3 lenses for $1400. No to mention this fuji is a fixed lens cam, great lens (aperture and FL) but fixed lens no less. Sure...it appeals to a different crowd than your normal consumer compacts type as it has OVF/EVF as an option, knobs and buttons BUT remember, it is still mass produced in Asia similar to NEX, the Samsung NX100 and GF1/EP1 (which all can be had for ~$600 each) etc...
  38. I beg to differ. The fixed lens is the key to why this camera could be a niche-classic.
    I wholeheartedly agree that we can only wonder why no other company could figure out what Fuji seems to have done now. A high quality compact second camera for the pro or serious amateur needs to be just that - compact! As well as solid.
    If the lens is as good as it should be, and the sensor delivers in low light, the world looks lighter. In many respects.
    My Konica Hexar, which I downsized and upgraded to in the late film days, seems to have resurrected for the digital era.
    But I hope that a price of 1700 $ is mere speculation?! At a 1000 or even 1200 it could be a run away hit.
  39. from another PN thread, just my two cents:
    Thanks, Fuji, for making the camera I need as a replacement for my dear, departed Contax T2 (compact film camera w/ gorgeous 38mm/2.8 lens, AF and MF capability). The price seems to be 3/4 of the price for a Leica X1, but I would prefer the Fuji any time, even at the same price. They share the ingenous getting rid of the PSAM switch simply by having "A" on the aperture as well as the shutter speed selectors. Yes, the X1 is smaller - but not any longer when you put a finder on top of it!
    The X100 is called a Leica clone. These people must be too young to remember the Yashica, Konica and Olympus rangefinders.

    Some lament the lack of interchangeable lenses. But a fixed lens can be made to match the sensor and focusing engine (and the ingenious DOF scale!), and the lack of lens mount makes it more compact - and the whole point of a camera like this is something you put in your coat pocket for a bike ride, city weekend trip or when visiting friends; situations where a DSLR will just get in the way.
    It is a tell-tale sign of the value of a quality compact camera that more than half of the framed prints on my walls from my film days was taken with the Contax, not with the Nikon SLR gear!
  40. My sentiments are the same as Leslie's.

    At the end of the day it's a fixed lens APS-C camera that takes pictures.The retro styling paying homage to 60 year old cameras doesn't sway
    me. What would, and this is what so far no one knows yet is the camera's IQ (and handling) performance
    along with consideration of the tradeoffs that are always made.

    I would be much happier to see manufacturers start with a fresh sheet of paper with respect
    to thoughtful/innovative camera design and ergonomics rather than stay beholden to style references from the past.
  41. Where did the high price tag come from? I haven't seen anything firm but I've seen numbers in the $1,000-$1,100 range.
  42. Well, the retro styling is there, I'm glad. I mean, why change form? Nature keeps form when it suits the organism in its environment. We should take that into consideration. I would rather it stay "beholden to style references from the past" than changing the outward design just for change's sake. I like the X100's inclusion of the finger grip up front; something taken from past designs :)
  43. >>> I would rather it stay "beholden to style references from the past" than changing the outward design just for
    change's sake.

    I did not say change for change's sake.

    It's silly to think that modern digital camera design must conform and be restricted to designs that were dictated
    largely by the medium of the time; ie film cassettes supplying roll film past an imaging chamber for exposure and then taken
    up by a spool. Kind of like saying that calculators should look like sliderules, cars like buggies, etc, etc.
    Certainly there are MUCH better industrial designs for picture taking systems that can spring from study and
    fresh thinking towards the picture making process and ergonomics involved. Imagination...

    BTW, I've been saying that for years; it's not directed towards a particular camera.

    No doubt there are many people who feel that homage to style is more important and they'll certainly be delighted
    with that camera. That's fine, just not something that appeals to me.
  44. Andrew, the $1700 price was converted from Yen at yesterday's exchange rate.
  45. Re
    "I'm curious as to why Fuji didn't just go for gold and make this an interchangeable lens system."
    You still do not know if that is in the works; with a variant of this model
    Ie introduce a fixed lens model; then later a sister model system with removeable lenses.
    This approach allows getting production up on the first model; with the variant fiddled with; tested; developed; ie lower risk.
  46. I'm sure they will (offer an interchangeable lens system), if they see an enthusiastic response from consumers (in the form of sales). If not Fuji, then Nikon or Canon. It would be nice to see adapters for different mounts!
    I could live with just one lens on a rangefinder-type body (I do it with my Leica M & 35mm 'cron). That's the concept for me with rangefinders; travel light, move fast, shoot quickly & get out.
    If I need longer focal lengths and frantic lens changes, that's what my dslr is for =)
  47. I see your point, Brad. And I did misquote you on that change thing, sorry.
    But let the users shape that change...or at least allow feedbacks.
  48. Me want.
    Looks great, APS-C and 35mm eq. highly useful, and from my experience with a F70 EXR: the dynamic range half-resolution mode works pretty well. So very curious to see how this one works out.
  49. If it comes it at under a grand USD I'd seriously consider it. (I would not just convert from yen- dollar is at an all-time low and Fuji knows that.) I've been waiting for a replacement for my Canon Canonet for years and this might do the trick. If not then I'll look at whatever succeeds the Olympus Pen and GF1 that has stabilization and HD video.
    I personally like the 35mm-40mm focal range (35mm equivalent) and would very much like a compact fast fixed lens camera with such a lens on it.
  50. I see little point in being stuck with a fixed lens digital camera at $1000 (and probably $1500) plus. The small output of Fuji makes the price high, just as it has with their recent film format (120 size) rangefinder, the 667. That apparently has issues with build quality. If the internals match the externals of the X100 I might be worried - the metal body is very un-Leica (M) or even un-Zeiss-Ikon like in appearance and seemingly (from the images provided) lacks their high quality fit and finish. If the internals work well, that may be soon forgotten. But a fixed lens? Even Konica made the good step from the Hexar AF to the Hexar RF with interchangeable lenses of high quality and reasonable price.
  51. Yeah, I keep frothing at the mouth for a compact APS-C camera, and was just about to fall all over myself seeing this. However, the limits of the lens (no zoom), the large size (I can't really call it compact), and the probable high price make we wonder what excites folks about it.
    That's actually a question. Do tell.
  52. It sounds like what a lot of you guys really want is a Sony NEX camera.
  53. Nah. What we want is a digital Leica CL with a full-frame sensor for US$2000 or so.
  54. No zoom is a limitation? I find that to be a depressing idea.
  55. Don't be depressed. All's I'm sayin' is that I'd prefer my GF1 to the Fuji because I can change lenses, even if I'm changing between primes. At least there is flexibility. I'd hate to have been on my recent trip to Prague and only have a 35mm (equiv) lens. I'd have missed a lot of great shots.
  56. Well, I think the idea for many is that the X100 is a secondary/backup camera. Certainly a majority of people who buy one will already have a DSLR camera system in their possession.
    As someone who shoots only primes, I see a fixed lens as an asset, particularly given the speed of this particular lens.
  57. Yeah, I keep frothing at the mouth for a compact APS-C camera, and was just about to fall all over myself seeing this. However, the limits of the lens (no zoom), the large size (I can't really call it compact), and the probable high price make we wonder what excites folks about it.
    That's actually a question. Do tell.​
    When employing an aps-C sensor, it is difficult to make the box much smaller. X1 is smaller but not with EVF. Don´t need zoom, have used compact film camera with fixed lens for years. Will pay 1000€ right away, seems reasonable given the advanced VF system and fast lens.
  58. @Brad.
    I would also like to see someone sketch a revolutionary new camera from scratch.
    In this case of refined simplicity and retro design, we could have something else - if Fuji delivers:
    Having tried the original Konica Hexar-experience, I've learned to appreciate the capability of being the goofy-guy-who-seems-to-be-fooling-around-with-granddads-camera. No one notices you - or at least your taking pictures - until you return with razorsharp images of candid moments.
    It's that kind of stealth capability, that I suspect is more difficult to achieve using a Nikon D3 and Nikkor 24-70...
  59. Oooooo! I like this.
    I don't see having a fixed lens as a weakness - it's like my old Dynamatic that doesn't work anymore.
    The price is a little steep compared to the PEN, GF and the DP1.
    I wonder if because it looks like an old film camera, would the thieves leave it alone?
  60. The price is a little steep compared to the PEN, GF and the DP1.
    I wonder if because it looks like an old film camera, would the thieves leave it alone?​
    Well...the fuji does have the OVF/EVF option (new tech) which could be really cool. The fact that it looks like a M from the 60's is okay but I wouldn't pay a premium for it. AT 1K, I would probably buy it if everything is cool. It would $200-300 over a 4/3rd bod...about the price of a lens. Let's see when it does come out in March...
  61. Engadget reports the X100 will ship March 2011 for $1000 USD.

    Rumors say the lens is designed very deep into the body, making it hard to reconfigure for interchangeable lenses.
  62. Is a fixed lens such a crippling handicap? The great photographers amongst us are good at any focal length.
  63. This sounds great. I don't see a fixed lens as a problem. I've been carrying around a Nikon 35ti film camera for years as a second small film backup (with incredible images from it) and this seems like the digital equivalent of that.
  64. Ok, let me ask another way. Why would you buy the Fuji over a m43 kit like the GF1 and the 14-45 or the 20?
  65. The GF1 doesn't have a viewfinder and the sensor is smaller. Two big strikes. Toss in the Fuji lens vs. the Panasonic lens, and it's slam dunk city.
  66. Been there (Photokina), seen it, touched it, looked through the viewfinder, and yes, that will be the next camera I will throw money at (if the sensor deliveres, but with Fuji, I don't fear they won't get this part right, too).
    The viewfinder is great: large, large enough in any case. Full of information (the optical one even shows the histogram, if I remember well), automatic paralax correction when using the optical finder), bright and clear with a phantastic resolution. In the optical finde, the framelines a clearly visible, with enough additional space around them so you see also details outside the main area, while switching to EVF gets you the real sensor picture. EVF and framelines coincide perfectly, from what I have seen.
    No rangefinder, that is clear, but if the autofocus is fast enough, I don't care. The retro design is fine with me. One may not like it, but having handled most of the best bodies available today, I still think there is a good reason why most companies sooner or later fall back to the same simple and basic user interface, good old mechanical knobs and rings, with buttons and wheels for the second level functions only. It has taken camera evolution many years to end up with the M concept, and nothing I have seen so far has proved this concept to be wrong.
    Fuji people told me it would be available around february / march, time to save the amount and / or sell what has not been used in the past years...
  67. When I used my little Konica rangefinder in the 70´s, no-one called it an M clone, although the layout was very similar. The M camera layout is in biology described as "convergent evolution", that is, different lines of evolution converges at the same final form (sharks, dolphins, tuna). So in this context, the X100 is not retro. It is just the most logical camera layout.
  68. Sven, sure there were no "M-clones" around at that time (no biological clones either, btw). But looking at camera history, Leica in my opinion had a very strong influence on camera design. Maybe even before the M, with the first Leica as well as with the screwmount ones, improving only details in the M series.
    At those times, that was what cameras looked like, more or less. I don't think it's converging evolution: other than a bird in Australia, that could by no means know of his counterpart in Africa and actively develop similar properties, camera designers had a blueprint of camera basics in their head, willingly or unwillingly, and even if no one talked about clones in those days, I believe Leica was one of the companies responsible for the common understanding of good handling.
    With less fights going on regarding intellectual property in those days, I have the impression that people back then took good solutions as a basis for further design and development out of common sense, not to "steal" or clone them, as todays lawyers tend to interpret every similarity between products.
    Well, lets enjoy the result of Fujis work, be it cloned or just good by itself, I am happily looking forward to give them my hard earned money in return for something that somehow still looks like a good old M3...
  69. I'm deeply entrenched in the m4/3 format.
    More so than proper to post here. All I ever wanted in a digital camera was for it to See what I See naturally.
    The 35mm FOV without intrusion from info from the camera.
    The GF1 with the 17mm is close, real close.
    Now the X100 comes around and it seems that Fuji has been paying attention to users of the Panny and Oly m4/3
    This is the dawn of a new era in cameras, makers and users.
    I'm sure the X100 will deliver and do it well.
    It's just a shame that the brand name isn't Oky or Panny as should be.
    I applaud Fuji for it's efforts and will support those efforts in every way.
  70. I'll reserve judgement pending some sample images to compare to m43 and first hand experience with the AF system
    and shutter lag (or lack thereof).

    I'm skeptical but hope to surprised and be wrong.
  71. for $1k it might be worth it; $1700 is a bit steep for a fixed-focal.
  72. "$1700 is a bit steep for a fixed-focal."
    Agreed. Sigh. Fuji's has created some amazingly wonderful fixed-lens cameras (e.g. GSW690, the 645 cameras, and the new 6x7 folder) with killer lenses, but they always are priced well over what most people are interested in paying.
  73. That has not stopped Leica, though.
  74. Wow! That thing really DOES look retro! Now that 14 bit color makes the Fuji type sensor almost obsolete, Fuji has found a new market for their sensor. Smart thinking! I wonder if other manufacturers, like Sigma, will introduce interesting and unique products for high prices that are similar. I'd frankly like to see Sigma introduce two new offerings (one in 24mm equiv. and one in 35mm equiv.) with their new super Foveon sensor, capturing 16 bits per color in Adobe DNG files with a buffer that would allow me to shoot five or six photos in a row, without having to wait for 10 seconds to let the buffer "clear" out. THAT would be a hoot!
  75. Can not wait to get my hands on one...
    The X100 looks sooooo well build its sexy.

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