First Digital Images From M Lenses !!!!!

Discussion in 'Leica and Rangefinders' started by fotografz, Jan 4, 2004.

  1. I got to wondering, so I used black gaffers' tape to mount a couple of M lenses on a Canon 10D. The mirror box allows the lens to snug right in and avoid the mirror itself. WOW !!!!! The best Macro shots I've taken outside of my Contax 120/4 mounted to a 645. Incredibly sharp, crisp images with wonderful color and tonal rendering. Used a 50 Lux and then a 90AA. The 90 allows you to get further away. Next I'll try the 135/3.5. Okay, who is an engineer here? We need a simple adapter to do this and those with a digital camera will have the best macros they've ever used on a digital camera. Lutz, you there? Something you can get done?
    006xbx-15975184.jpg
     
  2. Another.
    006xc0-15975284.jpg
     
  3. The crude tool.
    006xc2-15975384.jpg
     
  4. Nice lighting, Marc, did you use a softbox?
     
  5. make can we use these with your permission for the Leica screensaver project?
     
  6. Great try Marc, I think of the tele-elmar 135/4, there is one made in the 70ยดs that can be shorten to fix the visoflex, so infinit focus can be done with the canon body, things like that will make Leica AG consider this posibility (digital M) as economicaly reliable, thanks for this
     
  7. M lens on EOS body??!!!
    Woow! I'll keep my M lenses and M6 for now and wait for an adapter.
     
  8. Marc,

    Your images are outstanding, I am very impressed by your achievement!
    I have a friend in Italy (he's almost 85!) who will certainly be able to make the adapter you need. Unfortunately I don't have a Canon 10D...maybe if I can get my hands on a cheap analog camera with the same mount I might achieve something.
    I'll let the forum know.
     
  9. I just tried it too! Elmarit 90 with EOS 300D. Simply press the lens against the body. No tapes.
    006xdH-15975984.jpg
     
  10. Marc,
    these images are great. Very well done for trying this. I hope the Leica boys see them:)

    Cheers,

    Duncan
     
  11. Any Visoflex lens should be easy to use this way, with infinty focus to boot! 65/3.5 Elmar, 90/4 Elmar, 90/2.8 Elmarit, 90/2 Summicron, 135/4.5 Hektor, 135/4 Elmar and Tele-Elmar, 135/2.8 Elmarit, all with the correct "short mount", 180/2.8 Elmarit, any of the Telyt M's, will give you infinity focus if you can get an adapter made. But how many people these days will put up with a manual diaphragm? Only the 65 Elmar and one model of the 90 Summicron come with even a preset diaphragm, until you get to the 180 to 560mm range.
     
  12. Maybe when Leica say it cant be done its because Gaffa tape hasnt reach them yet. They are usually 25 years behind in electronics maybe the wonders of gaffa tape as well! Or possibly the new Leica universal velcro mount? THey are certainly clear results for such a shonky mount!
     
  13. Great, Marc. Congratulations for your sheer bravery, and for the results.

    Now, I know cameras and lenses are just tools - yeah, sure - but I get a sinking
    feeling in my stomach to see an M lens and a Canon body all wrapped up in gaffer
    tape. My goodness...

    Is it just me?
     
  14. Using the 550ex flash to compensate my shaky hands.
     
  15. Portrait shot.
     
  16. Marc, Marc, Marc... I have it on good authority from real photographers here that digital produces sterile, antiseptic, and pretty much lifeless images. And you still have to learn that stoopid photoshop thing. Breeding film lenses with 1s and 0s - trust me, you don't want any flipper images... Stop, before it's too late - you are messing with the Devil's work.
     
  17. Love to see what comes out of a Summar on a digital. Would it make for an "old time" look on digital?
     
  18. Okay Boys and Girls, we gotta get an adapter. Wee Keng those are cool as hell!!! Here's some more...
    006xfI-15976684.jpg
     
  19. Can you actually focus accurately with that? Or do you not need to focus Marc? You check focussing through the LCD?
     
  20. The 135 allows you to get a little further away. BTW, DO NOT TRY ANY M LENS THAT PROTRUDES BEYOND THE BAYONET MOUNT ( it'll foul the 10D mirror).
    006xfX-15976884.jpg
     
  21. nicely done, Marc -- get a machine shop to rig you up an adapter, plate them with titanium, and charge leica folks $400 a pop for 'em.
     
  22. Now this is thinking outside the box. Literally! It's this kind of creative thinking, that will bring results. A couple of the noted obstacles has been the limited size of CMOS or CCD imaging arrays and the angle which light rays would strike the imaging surface. Who says a digital camera that can use M mount lenses needs to be conventional design?

    The EOS 1-Ds has an imaging surface of 35.8 mm x 23.8 mm, while the EOS 1-D has an imaging surface of 28.7 x 19.1 mm, the EOS 1-D and Rebel have an imaging surface of 22.7 mm x 15.1 mm. So, somewhere here is a practical size that would optimimally utilize the image created by M mount lenses. With this in mind how many of us care if the image has an aspect ratio of 2:3 or 1:1.

    I suggest, go ahead and make it square if that gives us the most coverage for our M lenses.
     
  23. Marc,
    another forum member suggested that these guys either have an adapter or could make one....:

    http://www.cameraquest.com/frames/4saleReos.htm
     
  24. This thread reminds me of how I used to hand-reverse the 50mm lens on my old Practika without any means of attaching it to the camera. Has anyone tried reversing these lenses on the Canon yet? Also, it is just possible that there might be a reversal ring already 'out there' which might fit.
     
  25. Just one more 'cause it's so pretty... Travis, you just look through the viewfinder of the Canon 10D. There isn't any auto aperture, so you open up the aperture to focus on the area you want and then stop down to the shooting aperture you want before triggering the 10D. I know it is just macro use, but these are better than my Canon macro can do. Almost no color fringing when you super enlarge the image (which I can see with the Canon 100/2.8II Macro images).
    006xfz-15977084.jpg
     
  26. To ease and speed things up, save on the gaffers' tape. Set camera to AV mode. Press the lens lightly against the lens mount of the body. Shift yourself to attain focus. Just trigger off!
     
  27. Where did you get that nobby focussing attachment for the noctilux and are they available for other lenses such as the 75 lux and 90 cron?
     
  28. Here's a crop of my Nocti image. Usually when going up this far some color fringing starts showing up. These M lenses are really highly corrected if this is any indication.
    006xgP-15977284.jpg
     
  29. Picked up a homeade rig off EBAY for $10.00. It's an M-mount part(#16469,
    not knowledgeable enough about Leica gizmo's to know what it's from)
    epoxied to Canon EOS T-mount adapter. It leaves the lens pretty far from the
    film plane so I was thinking of mating it to a M42-EOS adapter. It would still be
    macro but perhaps give a little more minimum focus.
    I contacted S.K. Grimes about an adapter and they said they had and can
    make a custom job. I had heard from a photographer friend in town that he
    knew of a guy that had Grimes make an adapter and used it shooting some
    annual reports.
     
  30. Pete, it's called a "Steer" and is an item from Lutz (a forum member here). I have one on my Nocti, 75 Lux and 90AA. Another shot with the "Gaffer Tape" adapter...
    006xgZ-15977384.jpg
     
  31. Can you believe it? I have a Mac 23" cinema display and can fill the screen with these
    images without loss of quality !! It looks like Medium Format stuff. And this was just
    the 10D. What the hell will it look like using the 1Ds I wonder?

    I need this to shoot jewelry assignments. Diamonds cause all kinds of problems when
    shooting digital that these lenses may help solve for me.

    Leica, wake up for God's sake.
     
  32. Could the Fresnel principle be employed to make a screen that would straighten out the rays from the shorter lenses so that they reach the focal plane in parallel rays?
     
  33. 14167 M (Viso) to R adaptor, plus Novoflex R-EOS adaptor. I used my 400/6.8 Telyt-V on my D30 all the time. Any of the removable-head M lenses with the appropriate short-mounts would work on that combo also. Stephen Gandy www.cameraquest.com has Japanese-made versions of the above adaptors as well.
     
  34. EricM

    EricM Planet Eric

    Marc, I can see it now! Your clients will arrive with secure case's and ultra expensive product, and you'll whip out a camera with duct tape holding the lens on...

    Good work man, if it wasn't for people like you, we'd still be on a horse and carriage!
     
  35. Spectacular images, Marc. Can you produce the same shots with another manufacturers' lenses so that we can compare, even just a little bit? Then again, with your skills, the equipment doesn't seem to be the biggest variable in the shots. The composition, lighting, framing....all make the shots work.
     
  36. Wouldn't you get even better results by reversing the lens, so that its front element was closest to the Canon body?
     
  37. Tried your suggestion Gary. Doesn't work. Zero focus even moving in as close as
    possible. The lens is to far away from the sensor.
     
  38. Hi Marc, thanks for your confidence in my craftsmanship, but in this case I would have suggested what Jay says. Nice light, as always. Next time I need product shots I'll send you my prototypes... ;o)
     
  39. Badge technology obviously is more profitable. Well done Marc.
     
  40. Ingenious, Marc!

    Like Jay said - there is an adapter path already in existence. The M-to-R adapter adds a bit of depth, so your results would be "more" macro than just using the gaffer's tape. Except, of course, with the short-head lenses.

    I did a similar trick hand-holding a 90-M against the front of my Leicaflex SL at a time when I had no macro lens for the SL - same scale, different capture material.

    Does the 10D have mirror-lockup? It might be interesting/fun to (carefully!) try the Leicaflex-mount version of the old 21 Super-Angulon f/3.4 (same optics as the M-mount version, different mount/barrel).

    It would give a good idea of just how much corner fall-off and other artifacts really would result from using a short-focus "true" wide-angle on an imaging chip. The apparent focal length on a 1.6x-mag-factor chip would be 34mm or so. Should allow infinity (scale) focusing.

    Also - Cosina now makes SLR mirror-up versions of the 15mm lens (and I think even the 12mm), at least in Nikon F mount. I think cameraquest has Nikon F-to-EOS adapters. They would equal 24 and 19mm fields of view on a 1.6x chip.

    Seems like you could cobble together a pretty decent 'proof-of-concept' rig that covers all the "M" focal lengths out to infinity. If we could demonstrate that lenses with really short backfocuses can, in fact, be used with current image sensors and produce acceptable images, we might be able to get some manufacturer to move off the dime and make a body to use them.
     
  41. Long before digital came along, in 1960 or so, my friend used to photgraph his stamp collection by hand holding a reversed lens against his camera to make very good macro shots. Best regards, Bill
     
  42. A company in Japan makes OM lens adapters for EOS cameras. It's on a thread by Neil D. in the Olympus Forum on Sept 05, 2003. Just look up the archives of the Olympus forum. The address of the company is even mentioned.

    Good to see you so excited, Marc. Still, it gives me a "Handwriting is on the Wall" feeling. Needed therapy, so I went out and took about 50 shots of my favourite bridge...
     
  43. Call the Smithsonian!! Very cool.

    Now, isn't there an electronics guy on the forum who can glue a CMOS sensor to the pressure plate inside an M body?
     
  44. Cool. I could probably put a 10D or 1DS sensor in the back of an M, if I thought it were worth the trouble (and if I could afford one).

    Mark, the test I would really like to see -- and you're just the guy to do it -- is to lock the mirror up on a 1DS, put a shorter Leica lens in there (like a 24, 28, or 35), focus at normal distances (by trial and error, I suppose), and see how bad the performance at the edges REALLY is. Leica (and others) keep saying that we'll never see a full frame M because current sensors won't work with the sensor so close to the lens.

    But I'd like to see what really happens. Are there color problems? Is the main problem just light falloff (which could be largely corrected electronically)? Does the antialiasing filter in front of the sensor make the sensor more tolerant of non-perpendicular rays?

    If a 1DS sensor makes good images with a Leica lens, then someone could certainly put that sensor (and electronics) in a Leica body.
     
  45. Sorry, John, but EOS lacks MLU capability, only mirror pre-fire. Unless Marc tapes the mirror up (and that sounds dicey), symmetric WA's are out. I've played the "hand-held" adapter game with Contax SLR lenses in front of a D30 - fun stuff! For Leica and CV M lenses, you need the real-deal MLU from the RTS III, Nikon F, K1000, etc.
     
  46. Steve Gandy/www.cameraquest.com sells M or R to EOS EF adaptors. Visoflex lenses used with them focus to infinity. Here's a link to an image with a 560mm Telyt on an EOS 1D: http://www.mountain-and-desert.com/Wildlife/Birds/Perching_BX/DBX-unk0001-1.htm.
    006yKl-15994984.jpg
     
  47. Checked with Stephen Gandy. He has no adapters for M on EOS, but may have such an adapter for closeups later this year.
     
  48. Have we run out of good subject matters for photography...I might photograph my cameras.
     
  49. Bashir, did you bother reading this thread and what it is about? The subject matter is
    irrelevant.
     
  50. Taken with a tele Elmarit M 2.8/90mm on a Canon 10D

    http://www.fototime.com/5676D29899515E4/standard.jpg
     

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