Fashion photography vs. ethics

Hi, I'm about to write a dissertation in my final year at college. I'm

thinking on writing about how fashion photography may be in conflict

with excisting ethical standards. Can someone help me out with some

ideas for research (books, sites, articles etc.)

Andreas

Why would one propose fashion photography is in conflict with existing ethical standards in

the first place? Why not the conflict of photojournalism and existing ethical standards? I'm

curious.

first look up the definition of "oxymoron". Photography of fashion items as used in

advertising doesn't appear myuch to have anything to do with the subject of ethics.

Especially since people in "fashion" photographs generally have little to no

relationsship wth other people who might be in the same photograph.

 

Perhaps a better subject would be the relationship of the depiction of interpersonal

relationships in advertising in general to perceived norms of ethical behavior i na specific

culture.

Andreas, I think I see what you are trying to get at - but I think you would do well to get a clearer picture of what constitutes 'ethics.' As suggested, photojournalism would be a much more interesting candidate to think about in this respect.

I think you guys are being coy... Ever time I see those Bebe ads in the bus stops all over my city, I wonder why 14 year old girls would get dressed up like hookers. I also remember the "heroin-chic" look of a few years ago, and I also marvel at the thin-ness of some of those Victoria Secrets models. <p>There is some ethical conflict in almost every human endeavor. This particular one, though, has been done to death... t

Moi? Coy? Au contraire. :-)

There's an interesting quotation on the subject of fashion by Michel de Montaigne - www.quotationspage.com.

"I wonder why 14 year old girls would get dressed up like hookers."

 

Because some old farts with pederastic leanings get turned on by it? Then again, the whole 'fashion' thing is just a greed trip so far as I can see.

I agree entirely with Ellis here, ethics has little do to with fashion in a real sense. Also, as Tom says it has indeed been done to death. Also, I agree with ?Beepy too and I love your photos.

 

Have a look at David McCracken's recent nude, ''Vatican Approved'' for a laugh at ''existing ethical standards''.

 

What are the ''existing ethical standards'' of fashion photography?

I have no interest whatsoever in fashion photography because it is like Harvey said, a greed game. Also, I hate fashion, just because I do. Sure, I could have been a model and done the fashion thing, but why? I rather see the real world and all it has to offer, not the ever changing fashions of the high street or designer houses. I like real healthy women too, not plastic runway dolls, high as kites.

 

Think for a moment about the people who make the clothes, the sweat shops, cheap labour, and the poverty. That would be worth a dissertation, and it would be worth photographing too.

 

I have bought many fine designer suits and other clothes, chess sets, whatever, but I got it all form the charitiy shops, what you might call the thrift stores. That's my fashion and I like it.

 

In fact, I recently picked up an un-fashionable Fuji 690ii for $80.

 

Ha!

 

Cheers.

Ben, I've been looking around for a decent Fuji 690x at a sensible price for a while now, and I can't tell you how delighted I am that nearly every time I glance at photo.net I read about how you picked one up for $80. Will you do us a favor, please? when you acquire a Nikon D2X for $55 because the owner didn't realise it needed a battery, have a thought for us ordinary folk. you know, the ones like me who live in a world where the prices of cameras have more than two digits and cameras don't float down from the skies.

If I aquire a D2x I will more than likely need to take out a mortgage to pay for it!! That's why I use the Fuji, that's the real world for me, and that's why I am happy.

 

Cheers.

Is it too late to get a tuition refund?

Jesus. Have you ever seen a Helmut Newton photograph?? Decadent as all

hell. Anyway - perhaps the way I might approach this is to first look at what

purpose the fashion photograph REALLY serves culturally. You might come

up with something interesting.

 

I can certainly think of how even the most BASE of 'fashion photographs' -

for instance those in the sears catalogue - could be seen as ethically

challenging insofar as presenting standards or role models to our culture.

Or at least the culture that thumbs through these things. It also presents

and sets standards for attractiveness, etc... which is a pretty fascinating

topic in itself.

 

The definition of "existing ethical standards" might be a difficult one. Last

time I looked there was no manual.

"I can't tell you how delighted I am that nearly every time I glance at photo.net I read about how you picked one up for $80."

 

 

It's a lot creepier than that, even. When you Google for the thing, the FIRST return is...

 

 

ben conover , jul 27, 2005; 01:01 pm "I bought a Fuji 690ii for $80." ... I bought the Fuji 690ii for $80 (Euro 50) from a camera store. ...

 

 

http://www.google.com/search?lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Fuji%20690ii

Bee Flowers, Biography notes:

 

''I treat everyday objects as signifiers of vanishing and emerging value systems. Much of my work is concerned with societal change in Russia and the Middle East.''

 

Well, it didn't come up on a google search, but what does it mean?

I guess you are familiar with the work of Paul Verhage, 'On being normal and other disorders', where he uses signifiers in reference to Lacan.

 

Have you anything to say about Fashion photography vs. ethics ?

 

Or are your dry comments confined to Fuji-bashing?

 

I am feeling calm and relaxed this morning, I hope to continue that way. So sorry that you got a Google search that mentioned my camera. Big deal, buy one, they're great. I was actually thinking of selling mine. Perhaps the Fuji 69'a are signifiers of vanishing and emerging value systems !!

 

I agree with the comments above about the non-existance of a 'manual for ethical diagnosis', in relation to Helmut Newton's 'Hell'.

 

Thankyou.

If this is your final year in college and this is the topic that you're going to write about you are a fool. What have you done in 4 years at college? This might sound severe, but after being in a corporate world for over 2 decades and experiencing the backstabbing, the politics and the pettiness of human nature, I think that perhaps your dissertation will be more about yourself and your viewpoints (flawed) as stated above than the real subject. Here's a good example: Remember the composer Handel? Ethics was NOT part of his game plan. That's why we know his music today, but hear little about his competitors. First of all there are NO existing ethical standards. Back to your room for reflective thought process, no better yet...go to day labor and shovel some ditches for a week with folks who usually speak Spanish. NOW you're ready for a dissertation...

Hi, I remember Handel, the old geezer wrote some fine stuff, albeit a vast catalogue of hits. Well, I agree with John about ethics and fashion photography. I think manual labour saved me ten years ago, it made me look hard at life and now I am happy, I can still use a shovel if needs be. So, since this is a photography forum, I think I would like to use my camera to remember the musician friends I have, the ones who still play Handel..........

 

Cheers.

Sorry I sounded so severe. But, I remember a story about a composer showing up at a place to perform his piece, as agreed to by the court..but....(Geeeeorg) Handel was there already, had his "stuff" set up and that was that. (He) had gotten wind of the agreement, had gone to see some folks and had simply "undone" the deal and put himself in the poor fellow's place. I consider this HIGHLY unethical, but that-sa life....Can business take place in an ethical environment? Certainly and working in such an environment has its major rewards in terms of relationships and perhaps even future success. But you have to be careful.......

John - sorry you're so jaded. Perhaps you shouldn't post in this forum if all

you're going to do is shoot people down and not add anything constructive

to the argument. Is it possible you can take out your frustrations on those

who have backstabbed YOU? The guy's just trying to get a little feedback for

god's sake.

 

Okay -I'm off my soapbox.

In terms of Handel's and others' behaviour. I wouldn't say "that's life"... I

would say "that is NOT acceptable and will not be tolerated" if it's anyone

that I come into contact with... not bashing at you again - just adding my 2

cents.

Andreas, I think you're raising an interesting idea, although I do agree that your definition of the word "ethics" is unclear and therefore problematic as to what you're looking for. As someone that would love to do fashion photography full-time, and at the same time someone who holds a degree in Women's Studies, I often struggle with working in a field that regularly demotes women to rail-thin objects of lust (materialistically and sexually). And I haven't yet found a way to end that conflict in my mind. Does anyone else struggle with this? I'd love to get a good debate on this conflict...

Women strive to become an Ideal; which by definition, does not exist.

<BR><BR>Hence the discussion.

Who's jaded? Reality is what I'm talking about here. Fashion photography is highly competitive. Just like a car race...there's only ONE winner. I believe the party is looking for real advice, not hot cereal with sugar...Let's not beat the messenger of reality here...

give up on fashion and go for advertising, a pursuit designed to make everyone feel inadequate and envious (fashion is just a sub-set of advertising, anyway). The whole purpose of advertising is to make you feel terrible about yourself, and to convince you that owning The Product will make you a better person.<p>I'm sure there's a dissertation in there somewhere (but it's been done to death, too)... t

Haha . . . It's funny (and predictable) that people are quite willing to jump in here and tell poor Andreas what he/she should or should not be writing about rather than answering his/her question:

 

"Can someone help me out with some ideas for research (books, sites, articles etc.)"

 

Andreas, I think that you would do much better to ask one of your profs (do you not have a dissertation advisor?) where to start looking for books and articles rather than a bunch of snarky old men on a photography website.

 

(There's an answer that isn't really an answer to your question.)