D700 in DX Mode - question

Discussion in 'Nikon' started by boris_miljevic, Feb 2, 2010.

  1. Hello,
    Can anyone explain this to me...before i buy D700 with 70-200 lens, and some other lenses...
    Can you choose DX crop mode with 70-200 f/2.8 FX lens attached?
     
  2. Yes -- the D700 is good to use in DX or FX mode. You have to 'set' the menu option to put the camera in DX mode with a lens like the AF 70-200mm. The resulting image size will be in the 6 megapixel ranage -- taking less space on your CF card. The camera (using a NEF image) will not give a FX-size image in DX mode.
     
  3. Boris,
    As Jerry pointed out, yes it is possible to use a D700 in DX mode. Just out of curiousity why spend the cash on a D700 and 70-200 and than not make use of its full potential?
     
  4. Yes you can without any problems at all.
    You simply go to the Shooting Menu, Image Area, Choose Image Area and choose DX. The image area outside the DX crop will be darkened in the viewfinder to aid composition.
     
  5. Arthur Richardson [​IMG], Feb 02, 2010; 09:35 a.m.
    Boris,
    As Jerry pointed out, yes it is possible to use a D700 in DX mode. Just out of curiousity why spend the cash on a D700 and 70-200 and than not make use of its full potential?​
    I don't know if this is the case here Arthur, but some people are under the mistaken impression that doing this will be the equivalent of giving them more telephoto "horsepower", which is clearly not the case. Plus you go from 12.1 MP down to 5.1 MP, which is really not the big deal everyone thinks it is, because that's about the equivalent you would get if you cropped the 12.1 MP image down to the DX format crop. You don't REALLY lose anything, you are just going to a tighter crop.
     
  6. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Right, on the D700 (and any one of the D3-family DSLRs), you can select the DX-crop mode with any lens attached. However, on a 12MP FX DSLR, image size in the crop mode is 2784x1848 for RAW. Therefore it is more like 5.1MP. (The number of pixels roughly doubles for the 24MP D3X.)
    Moreover, in the DX mode, the D700's viewfinder will only show a frame for the DX area. It does not gray out the "outside" FX area. Only the D3-family DSLRs will gray out the area outside of DX in that mode.
     
  7. This topic always makes me sad.
     
  8. Shun Cheung [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG], Feb 02, 2010; 09:53 a.m.

    It does not gray out the "outside" FX area. Only the D3-family DSLRs will gray out the area outside of DX in that mode.​
    You are incorrect Shun. I have a D700 and it does indeed gray out the area outside the DX crop.
     
  9. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Scott, since you have a D700, why don't you set it to the DX crop mode and then look through its viewfinder first, before correcting people in the forum?
     
  10. You could just shoot in FX and crop it later to just what you want. Way better way to do this, imho, unless you have to shoot a lot of quick stuff and deliver it immediately.
     
  11. I concur with Matt.
    Use the camera to give its best - use the 24x36mm sensor.
     
  12. Shun Cheung [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG], Feb 02, 2010; 11:31 a.m.
    Scott, since you have a D700, why don't you set it to the DX crop mode and then look through its viewfinder first, before correcting people in the forum?​
    Having already done it in the field and knowing it grayed out, there was no need to re-do it. Just accept the fact that you erred in your statement and move on. Life is too short.
     
  13. ... Firmware, maybe? Mine doesn`t greyed out (I have already checked it). Just a single lined, clean box.
    I try to remember that one of my previous cameras had different screen frame viewing options in a cropped mode.
     
  14. Jose Angel [​IMG][​IMG], Feb 02, 2010; 01:14 p.m.
    ... Firmware, maybe? Mine doesn`t greyed out (I have already checked it). Just a single lined, clean box.
    I try to remember that one of my previous cameras had different screen frame viewing options in a cropped mode.​
    What firmware is yours running? Mine runs 1.01 and it definitely grays out. Yours may be 1.0 or whatever the earlier version was.
     
  15. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Something is not right here. There must be a lot of people who have D700 bodies. Can someone else check its DX crop mode and see whether the "outside" area indeed grays out?
    I am quite sure that it is a hardware limitation and not related to firmware version. As far as I know, you must have an extra layer/layers of LCD inside the viewfinder focusing screen that can be turned opaque electronically to have some area grayed out. Therefore, unless Nikon has made a small hardware component change in the middle of the D700 production cycle, we should not see such a difference.
     
  16. It absolutely does not gray out. You just get a black line showing the DX frame. And I am running the latest firmware; updated it a couple weeks ago myself.
     
  17. I rarely get complimented for my subtleness, but I notice a bit of a change in the tone of voice being used in the Nikon forum this week. Arthur Yeo's thread on teleconverter availability was different from the rest and now this.
    Did I miss something along the way, or am I getting soft having past 40?
     
  18. Kyle McMahon , Feb 02, 2010; 02:05 p.m.
    It absolutely does not gray out. You just get a black line showing the DX frame. And I am running the latest firmware; updated it a couple weeks ago myself.​
    Kyle, you know the old saying that a picture is worth a thousand words? And the Bond movie, Never Say Never? Well, here is your thousand words worth and never say never. MINE GRAYS OUT with DX crop selected. You can choose to dispute what I am saying, but nothing personal, I trust what my eyes are showing me a whole lot more than I trust your word. I have an aftermarket screen in there that I replaced (it is a resized Canon screen), with a microprism center (because I do not own any autofocus lenses, now will I ever) but I hardly doubt that has anything to do with it. From the etched DX crop on outward mine is a darker gray when I select DX crop. I don't know how old your D700 is but mine is about 4 months old. I got it and the battery pack from Adorama back in September.
    I know it's a shitty picture, sue me, it was taken with a point and shoot. I consider this issue put to rest. If you continue to dispute me you will be talking to yourself.
    00Vfag-216817584.JPG
     
  19. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    I rarely get complimented for my subtleness, but I notice a bit of a change in the tone of voice being used in the Nikon forum this week.​
    Arthur, some people can get a little excited more easily than some others. Otherwise, I don't think anything has changed in this forum.
    As I pointed out earlier, the ability to gray out (part of) the focusing screen should be a hardware feature on the screen, and the D700's screen does not have that feature as far as I know. I clearly documented that fact as a difference from the D3 when I reviewed the D700 a little more than a year ago: http://www.photo.net/equipment/nikon/D700/review/, where I wrote: (on the D3) "5:4 crop mode and under the crop mode, the area outside of the crop is grayed out. The D700 only provides a frame outline for the cropped area."
    In DPReview's D700 review, they wrote: “Focus screen DX mode now indicated with a rectangle rather than shaded area” http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond700/
    I have an aftermarket screen in there that I replaced (it is a resized Canon screen), with a microprism center (because I do not own any autofocus lenses, now will I ever) but I hardly doubt that has anything to do with it.​
    It turns out that Scott has a non-standard focusing screen inside his D700. That may explain the difference.
     
  20. I have a D700, a Christmas present and a little over a month old. I do not know if serial numbers vary between markets but the UK serial number is 2244869. In DX mode there is a black rectangle marked at the centre of the screen, but the area outside this rectangle is clear and not greyed out.
     
  21. Staying on topic, I believe that the DX mode was added to a d3 and a d700 to give you an opportunity to utilize your DX lenses when necessary. I do not see any reason to use this mode with a regular size lens, at least I've never used it and I wouldn't miss it if it suddenly disappears from the settings. It is just a crop.
     
  22. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    If for whatever reason you only need the center part of the frame, the DX crop mode will give you a smaller image file (in terms of number of bytes) so that you don't need to waste memory card space and hard drive space. Of course given how cheap CF cards and hard drives are nowadays, conserving memory card space is hardly a priority.
    In my case the only fisheye lens I have is the 10.5mm DX, so I occasionally use it on FX bodies in the crop mode.
    I am quite sure that all standard D700 bodies do not gray out the outside area under the DX crop mode. Scott Murphy has a non-standard custom focusing screen on his camera; that seems to explain the difference. Personally I have no interest in why his screen is different; I merely want to make it clear how it works on a standard, non altered D700 body.
     
  23. Well, my own D700's VF remains all transparent in DX mode, with only a thick frame showing the coverage for the DX.

    I have even used my AF-S 24-120 VR in DX mode. I'm aware that my files get smaller, but since it's a crop I don't think that entails any loss in terms of IQ. I have even used the DX mode with my AF 80-200 f2.8 and lived to tell the story. To me, this is using the camera in all possible ways.
     
  24. The D700 I tested indicated the DX crop by a rectangle.
    You can't use an exception to disprove a general rule.
     
  25. "I do not see any reason to use this mode with a regular size lens"
    Not sure if the D700 is the same as the D3 but the D3 shoots at 11fps in DX mode (as opposed to 9fps in FX mode) which is a very good reason (for me) to sometimes shoot in DX mode when shooting certain types of sports.
     
  26. I have found a quirk. Let me quote the manual, page 59:
    The DX Format Crop
    If Auto (the default setting) or On is selected for Custom Setting a6 (AF point illumination), the DX format crop is shown by a frame in the viewfinder when DX format is active. If Off is selected, the area outside the DX format crop is indicated by a transparent mask.​
    I tried this, and it is true. It is only transparent, however, not opaque. It's like a neutral density filter on the lens with a rectangle cut out of the middle. But I tried it with an FX lens, so I don't know if it would behave differently with a DX lens. I don't have any to test.
    If your D700 is doing something other than this transparent gray--not opaque--with anything other than this esoteric set of settings (why would you turn AF point illumination off?), then I don't believe you have a stock D700, and that the mod you readily admit has done something to affect your masking.
    Clearly, you are all hot and bothered by this for some reason, and your tone attacking several others who are skeptical of your claims is unwarranted.
     
  27. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Thanks Kyle. I read that this morning too, but didn't completely understand what that meant. Unfortunately I didn't test that with my camera. I'll give that a try tonight when I get home. Maybe there is yet another little feature/detail I wasn't aware of.
     
  28. Sounds like the grayed out area Scott observed was due to a combination of factors: the non-standard focus screen; using manual focus lenses only, which might obviate the need for the AF point illumination (which might not function with the modified Canon screen anyway).
     
  29. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Kyle, thanks for figuring this out. If Custom Setting a6 is off, which means the AF point red illumination is off, the area outside of DX is grayed out in the crop mode as Scott Murphy describes. If a6 is set to on or auto, the DX area is specified by a frame as I pointed out earlier.
    Such trivia probably does not deserve so much discussion in this thread, but once again it reminds us that those DSLRs are very complex. After owning the D700 for well over a year, I had never paid attention to this feature. I also checked Thom Hogan's D700 Guide, and he did point this out on page 585 in the first edition. It was another detail I overlooked when I proof-read it.
     
  30. acm

    acm

    Considering 70-200 f/2.8 VR is "almost" a Dx lens what with its heavy vignetting characteristics, using it in Dx mode on Fx cameras may be actually a sensible thing to do under certain circumstances and OP might have a valid point in posting this question.
     
  31. Apurva, if your copy of the lens has 'heavy' vignetting on your FX body, perhaps you should send it in for service as heavy vignetting is certainly not normal.
     
  32. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Considering 70-200 f/2.8 VR is "almost" a Dx lens what with its heavy vignetting characteristics, using it in Dx mode on Fx cameras may be actually a sensible thing to do under certain circumstances and OP might have a valid point in posting this question.​
    That is an exaggeration that has been repeated in this forum over and over.
     
  33. "Considering 70-200 f/2.8 VR is "almost" a Dx lens what with its heavy vignetting characteristics, using it in Dx mode on Fx cameras may be actually a sensible thing to do under certain circumstances and OP might have a valid point in posting this question."
    Actually, I prefer a little vignetting on a number of my images.
     
  34. This is such a hilarious thread. I'm sorry I didn't find it earlier. Considering that the answer to the OP was a simple "Yes", given in the first reply, I wonder incredulously that a few of you are have been arguing so religiously about your perspective on what is, it turns out, a "Custom Functions" issue. These have been a sticking point for 2 decades, so it's surprising that some photographers can be tricked still. You should always refer to your custom functions first, before assuming that your (or someone else's) camera is acting up, and certainly before you call someone else a liar.
     
  35. I just wanted to show the two different Dx crop viewfinder views for anyone interested.
    00Vg6y-217195584.jpg
     
  36. Shun, is this true that it grays it out? I just used the DX mode for the first time when I was at a basketball game and the grayed out area would really, really have been helpful with framing the pictures. I'll need to play with "a6" and see if it does indeed gray out the screen.
    A lot of people on a different site complained that the people's feet were cut off. Others said that I should have used FX mode instead and crop later. I like cropping in camera and though the feet were cut off I thought the pictures came out pretty well, especially at 6MP. The grayed out area would have helped tremendously with framing the shots though.
    [​IMG]
     
  37. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    For most people, this may seem to be a trivial issue, but it was one of my biggest complaint about the D2X a few years ago. While the D2X is a DX body, it has a high-speed crop mode to further crop the DX sensor to about half of the area. The problem is that the D2X merely uses a few corner brackets to indicate the crop mode, and I have indeed accidentally chopped off the head of some birds, not literally, but in the images.
    Later on Nikon introduced the D2XS that would gray out the area outside of the cropped area so that it would clearly indicate that the camera is in the crop mode. That was one of two small changes Nikon made between the D2X and D2XS. I was glad to see the D3 followed the same convention.
    Therefore, when the D700 was introduced, I was very surprised that it uses a frame to indicate the crop mode. When I wrote the review for photo.net, I checked a lot of sources and all of them indicated that it uses a frame, as most people pointed out on this thread earlier. Apparently the focusing screen cannot display the color red and black at the same time. Therefore, if you switch on a6 so that the AF point selection would be highlighted in red, it would only give you a frame that can turns red along with the AF point selection. If you turn off a6 so that the focusing screen does not need to turn red, it can gray out the "outside" area. That is a major plus for those who use the corp mode.
    To me, it is important to get the facts straight and sometimes I go into extremes to figure out the little details. Again, these are complex cameras and I am sure that there are still some small features and options on them that I am not aware of. In particular, there are so many variations for these camera now so that there are small differences between the D300 vs. D300S, etc. etc.
    I just hope that these are the threads that all of us can learn something new each day so that we can use our cameras more effectively. Some will say "Who cares about this?" and perhaps rightly so, but there is certainly no need to over-react and flame one another. I am a well known target on photo.net; every time I make a mistake, people will point that out quickly, and I am glad that they do.
    Last but not least, Peter Lilley, thanks for posting the images.
     
  38. Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle. a6 really does do the trick. Thanks everyone!
     
  39. Interesting thread. Not a waste of time at all. I doubt many folks could possibly remember every detail of their dSLR's operation. I can't even remember how to switch my D2H to full aperture ring control without referring to the manual. And the options menu for some AF options is confusing due to convoluted wording. Ditto the SB-800 instructions for wireless CLS operation - a circuitous mess than never completely answers certain questions.
     
  40. erik_christensen|3

    erik_christensen|3 Self-employed

    quote: I doubt many folks could possibly remember every detail of their dSLR's operation unquote
    Yes P&S is relatively simpel, but DSLR's operation is not meant for simple minds -:), which nobody promised us.
    I am happy to learn something everyday.
     

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