Child Portraits on LF : Impossible?

<p>I have a 4 year old boy and would like to start taking some large format portraits of him.<br>

(Insert sounds of everyone laughing)<br>

I've shot landscape excursions using a Toyo Field 4x5, but never portraits / close ups / long lenses.<br>

I want to compose head/shoulders. Spot focus isn't gonna happen, but is there any way to get a 6-12" D.O.F?<br>

Is this just a matter of stopping down, tilting forward and focusing the mid-plane on his eyes?<br>

I only shot 65 and 90 lenses for landscape. What are the portraits focal lengths? 210? It would seem that if max DOF is needed, I'd need to stay to the wide end of the portrait lenses (while preserving natural facial features of course).<br>

In any case, I don't want to make this a bad experience for either of us. I'd rather wait a couple years, than traumatize the boy with "sit still ... these are $15 per shot!".</p>

<p>Any tips / wisdom / warnings appreciated. </p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

<p>Just to clarify, I don't own the Toyo 4x5 and longer. I shoot MF. <br>

I'd have to buy my LF gear again. I wouldn't mind the 4x5 for this ... but I'm very intrigued by<br>

8x10 and the mystique of making 8x10 contact prints for him to have long after I'm gone.</p>

 

<p>I haven't the slightest clue how guys like Lewis Carrol got the job done.. - Weren't there huge TLRs once? - Personally I'd try the Technika with a cammed 270mm and shoot it like a rangefinder. f16 should provide 18cm of DOF at 2m distance. - I guess the biggest issue is getting hold of powerful strobes?<br>

As you see from my metric response I'm European. - I've been dreaming of 8x10 for a while too, but why not stick to 13x18cm? You could dabble with inexpensive x-ray film and still pencil retouche and do contact prints for desktop frames? - Just a thought and no clue about your gear market. Over here the 13x18s were considered "less professional" than the 4x5"s 12 years ago and priced accordingly. - Portrait lens would be something 355mm+x<br>

DOF is the same at a chosen image size no matter what lens you are using. - If you want to do a 1:1 macro shot you get no DOF period. Only reducing (used) format gains some.</p>

<p>When I was a child several centuries ago one of our annual rituals was a visit to the photographer to have pictures of the children taken for distribution to the rest of the family. Studio portraits. Subjects posed, asked to be still and smile on command. Electronic flash illumination. 4x5 b/w film, two shots/holder, usually two shots/child. Very commercial and of course the photographer had the lighting down. There are books about how to do this.</p>

<p>Dave, is this what you want to do? Or do you want to shoot candids of kids in motion? If candids and you must have 4x5, think Speed/Crown Graphic or other press camera with a range finder.</p>

Tip: shoot MF and if that works well consider LF,

but not an time before.

 

Wisdom: yes it can be done. Prepare for lots of

failure to accompany the successes. Don't sweat

the cost; it's just money.

<p>You might consider adding a Speed Graphic to the equipment closet. That would do a better job on a moving subject and would give some cool results. Probably not the answer you are looking for but a good tool for the job.<br>

<br />Rick H.</p>

<p>I do shoot MF. He's well documented on 6x4.5.<br>

I thought about the speed graphic, but the lenses are a bit too wide for head/shoulder w/o distorting features.<br>

I'm not envisioning studio, controlled lighting. I'm envisioning outdoor, natural setting, posed, not candid.<br>

The 4x5 is great, but I sold off my darkroom years ago thinking I'd be happy enough "scanning" my film.<br>

Boy was I wrong about that, to say the least. Contact printing some 8x10's of him is something I'd love<br>

to do. Instead of him digging through a bunch of stupid raw digital files, he'll have archival photos, that<br>

dad made with his hands. </p>

<p>I've done some portraits with 4x5, typically with studio strobes and a 300 mm lens. Anything shorter on 4x5 and I think that facial features would be distorted if you're close enough for a head shot. I've used a Toyo 45 F or G monorail and it can work well with the right subject. Since you're working with your son, you might get a bit more cooperation than the average 4 year old. Keep an eye on Project 55--there is a group with Kickstarter funding attempting to market a new version of Polaroid Type 55, a 4x5 Polaroid that produced a useable negative along with an instant print. It isn't on the market yet, but this would be an ideal way to see if you've gotten the image you wanted.</p>

<p>Thanks for the input everyone.<br>

Since I have to rebuy just about everything LF again, I'll go with 8x10. I wanted to try 8x10<br>

anyway, so no time like the present.<br>

So, for 8x10 ... sounds like 300mm on the focal for head shots ... and lots and lots of holders.<br>

Boy those Toyo 810MII's look nice and portable. Oh, my wife would love that one ;)</p>

<p>Best of luck. - I'd warn about lots of holders. - I have 9 or 10 in 13x18cm and they are already filling a shopping bag. Also maybe hit some DOF calculator / recall 1:2 macro shots you did before and rethink the project. Are you sure a 300mm will work? Its a wideish standard lens. - 420mm might be a better bet on 8x10".</p>

<p>Unfortunately, if you want the look of a 300 mm on 4x5, you'll need a 600 on 8x10. Be prepared to get some very powerful strobes...</p>

<p>I have done a few with both 4x5 and 8x10. It's not impossible. </p><div></div>

<p>Yes, it is very difficult! Almost impossible in my experience... :)</p>

<p>Difficult even for medium format... so imagine to get "an almost macro" shot of a moving subject with an 8x10"! A head&shoulders in 8x10" is near 1:2! You`ll have to anesthetize your kid (or to shoot while sleeping, -not a bad idea-, I have some very nice pics this way).</p>

<p>Well, I`ll build a head (crown, neck) resting device, like those used on vintage studios for extremely long exposures... just some kind of rod with a lined top to rest on the back part of the head. Put it behind a seat, it could be attached to a tripod.</p>

<p>Try to convince your kid to keep his head in touch with the thing and go! You know that you`ll have some seconds before he runs away... Maybe in a first try you can focus, and in a second chance, to assure his head is in touch with the holder and shot.</p>

<p>I`m finally giving it up in LF and shooting a much faster 6x7 with prism finder.</p>

Sally Mann used an 8x10 when she was photographing her family, worked out well. Her memoir "Hold Still" is one of the

best books about being a photographer I've read.

<p>I'm now sufficiently reality checked on this idea.<br /> Frankly my LF experience was limited to wide landscapes on a field camera. My movements<br /> were basic perspective correction. LF portraiture, seems a whole 'nother set of skills. While not<br /> beyond me to learn, I was kind of hoping to hit the ground running with this - he's growing quick.<br /> So, I'll respect that I have a lot going against me here and I'd hate to spend 3,000 on 8x10<br /> equipment and film .. and end up with nill. I might lean back toward 4x5, for size, cost, familiarity.<br /> I'm sure he'd equally love some 4x5 silver contact prints some day. And if I ever shoot a ringer,<br /> I'll support my local pro lab and have them blow it up on an archival print.<br /> Question. If I go 300mm on a 4x5, for head/shoulders, do I need to avoid field cameras and<br /> look at a view camera with extension rail? As I said, never shot long lens LF, so I'm unfamiliar<br /> with any techniques/theory there.</p>

<p>Most field cameras won't have enough bellows draw for a regular 300 mm lens much closer than infinity, although there are telephoto designs out there from Nikon and Schneider, among others, that will have a shorter extension at the close distances that you would need. My Toyo 45 F and 45G monorail cameras came with about 18" of extension, so that gets you to 1:2 with a 300. Be aware that the telephoto lenses can weigh quite a bit more, so even if they meet your needs for shorter bellows length with a field camera, some of the lighter wooden cameras may not have enough heft to really support the telephoto lenses well. These lenses typically lack covering power also, if you decide to use the camera for other things. As for movements, I really wouldn't worry about that for portraits--they are rarely necessary. But if you need them, any of the common monorail designs will have plenty of them for most uses. <br>

Good luck on your project!</p>

<p>For the kind of work you are talking about, Dave, I'd avoid field and press cameras like the plague. And I do love field and press cameras, but not for head-and-shoulders work. But a monorail with a 250 or 300 (although I've "gotten by" with a 190 and 210) is what you need, as well as a "set" that includes chair, stool, and/or table to facilitate posing. For me the biggest concern is the sharpness of the lens... most are too sharp. A dedicated soft-focus lens is really worthwhile but some of the SF filters work good enough. Older lens designs like Tessar and even Rapid Rectilinears are useful but even they can be "too sharp". Iv'e successfully shot most of my portrait work in natural light (including indoors) but I can see how strobes (or even hot lights) would be a big benefit. Not to dissuade you in any way, but if you can't do it in MF the chances of doing it in LF is slim.</p>

<p>p.s. Whatever you do... get going NOW. They grow up fast. My kids posed a lot for me when they were young but as teens that gets much less frequent due to busy schedules, etc. In MF I use 150 and 250mm on 6x6. :)</p>

<p>I've had great results with him on MF, so I'm sure I'll get a few keepers on LF.<br>

Yes, I do feel an urgency with this. The good news is that these 4x5 views are much<br>

less expensive that the field cameras. Since this is single purpose, I'll hunt for a Toyo C<br>

and look for a 250 to help keep the heft down. Maybe shoot a little wider than head/shoulders<br>

for the first few sessions. It'll all be outdoor natural light - cloudy bright kind of thing.<br>

Can't wait. I had a D700 (for a very short time) and never felt this anticipation. Boy I love film. </p>

 

<p>Go for it with a 4x5. I took this when he was 4 days old.</p><div></div>

<p>With a 4x5 camera, use 150mm and 210mm lenses for best chances of good shots. My Toyo 45A field camera with only 12 inches (300mm) of bellows draw can focus fairly close with these. With a 300mm lens you'd need over 400mm of bellows draw to focus close for a portrait. And depth of field with a 300mm is very slim, even at small apertures. </p>

<p>I've used 210mm for portaits on 4x5. Of course you can photograph children with this -- until a 100 years or so ago, that was the only way there was.</p>

<p>As someone who is currently shooting 8x10 portraits of my kids, I say "Go for it!". Shoot 8x10 film, it's a blast and not expensive like you fear. I'm into it for well under $1k for the whole kit and I spend only about $3 per shot.</p>

<p>Get a cheap old wood field camera and not some crazy expensive thing. I have a Kodak 2D that was only around $450. I only have 3 holders and it's more than enough. You only need one lens, I do everything with a 300mm. Yes, you can do tight headshots with it without distorted perspective. With big film like 8x10 portraits are "macro" in that they are close to 1:1 magnification which changes the field of view of your lens significantly (makes it more narrow). Most people don't realize this until they start shooting 8x10.... so no you don't need a 600mm lens for portraits. The closer you focus, the "longer" your lens gets.<br>

<br />I use primarily a Fuji 300mm f/5.6 lens that I got for $200. Film is Arista Ultra EDU 100, costs under $3/sheet if you buy from Freestyle photo. I scan on an Epson 4990 flatbed scanner, works great. Don't have a darkroom, just use a Beseler 8x10 print drum and rotary base for developing, using Rodinal developer and doing one sheet at a time. I like shallow depth of field, so I don't mind the challenge of focusing. I use strobes a lot with it, but you wouldn't have to if you don't have them.</p>

<p>It's a great challenge, I love taking my kids out on "photo shoots" as a way to spend time together. Here's some example pics, all shot with a 300mm lens unless otherwise noted...</p>

<p><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/sheldonnalos/Scan-140401-0001_zps5624dfe9.jpg" alt="" width="803" height="1000" /></p>

<p><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/sheldonnalos/Scan-140319-0001_zps10fe9531.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p>240mm lens<br>

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/sheldonnalos/ElisePortrait_zpsacee4343.jpg" alt="" width="1000" height="751" /></p>

<p><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/sheldonnalos/Scan-140529-0001_zpsab79d76a.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/sheldonnalos/AshlynWheatField_zpsc797643f.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/sheldonnalos/KidsPortrait8x10_zps0fa34a21.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v483/sheldonnalos/Ashlyn%20Whipple%20Creek_zpsfim8kg57.jpg" alt="" width="1000" height="799" /></p>

<p> </p>

<p>Sheldon - Your photographs have spoken a thousand words. I will take the liberty of speaking for all of us on this thread and say you have done some very special work. I am going to keep an eye out for a similarly cost-effective setup. I can only hope that it goes a fraction as well for me.</p>

<p>Thanks Dave! Check out the used gear for sale section at the Large Format Photography forum, there's lots of activity there as well as helpful advice. I think you have to be a member for 30 days with a certain number of posts to see the For Sale section.</p>