bronica s2 question

guys

are the brass gears in an s2 realty that bad compared to the steel gears in an s2a

should i not buy an s2 for this reason

what are your thoughts

regards andrew

90% of internal camera gears are brass. I wouldn't sweat it they're ot in a high stress environment & brass is self lubricating, which steel isn't.

Anecdotally, the S2a is considered to be a lot less likely to strip winding gears than the S2. There's a decent amount going on when you wind these cameras(although admittedly not as much as in a Hassie 500 or similar camera) and you can feel several places of high resistance and "clunks" when winding them.

 

I THINK that my C is based on the S2 and not the S2a(although I could be wrong on that) and I just use a gentle hand when I'm winding it. I do the same with my S2a even though it's not supposed to be as susceptible to stripped gears. I think one of the keys is to get a good "feel" for what a normal wind cycle feels like on these cameras and stop IMMEDIATELY if something doesn't feel right.

Both the S2 and the S2a have the most horrible-feeling wind of this style of camera; the final clunk at the end of the wind always worries the hell out of me, but it's quite normal. Your'e right about the general opinion regarding the advantages of the steel gears, Ben, but I just don't know if this is some sort of meme or urban legend. I guess a lot depends on the amount of use and and quality of handling a S2 has received; I have one that seems fine but I'll admit that I'm bothered by the possibility of a gear problem and usually use an S2a. The S2 is such a work of art, and I'd like to keep it pristine!

Rick,

 

You will get no argument from me on the disconcerting "clunk" at the end of the wind cycle. I've never handled a Z or D, but the later EC and EC-TL have it also.

 

Truth be told, all the winding crank is doing is advancing the film and resetting the FP shutter. Compare that to the Hassie 500 and similarly operating cameras(including the later Bronicas) where the winding stroke not only advances the film but also closes the auxiliary shutter, lowers the mirror, then cocks and opens up the focal plane shutter and aperture. I know my SQ-a doesn't "clunk" but rather has a fairly relaxed winding stroke. It's no Rolleiflex where you only hear/feel a gentle click at the end of the advance stroke and another small one when you cock the shutter, but it's still not that terrible or distracting. For that matter, the thumb lever on an RB-67, which does everything but advance the film, doesn't feel that way or make that kind of noise.

 

While we're bashing these cameras, I'll also mention that every time I use one I'm still surprised by how loud they are and how much they vibrate. There again, I like to compare them to the RB-67(which has a 7cmx7cm meter) where I don't FEEL any vibration in my hands and the noise is more of a subdued "thunk" as opposed to a reverberating "clap."

 

With all of that said, I still love this series of cameras. IMO, you can't beat the styling of the S2/S2a. They are still quite useful with a good range of high quality and mostly inexpensive lenses, and not a lot of MF cameras give you 1/1000(albeit you have to put up with 1/30 sync speeds to get that). I bought a box of "crap"(that's how it was described to me over the phone) this past week that had a pair of EC bodies along with several lenses(among other things). Things were slow in the shop and the owner was out, so I was showing the guy running the shop that day some of the weird stuff about these cameras. Of course, one of the big things is the lack of focusing helicals on the lenses, but also the split mirror on the EC is always a topic of conversation.

Both the S2 and the S2a have the most horrible-feeling wind of this breed of camera; the filal clunk at the end of the wind always worries the hell out of me, but it's quite normal. You're right about the general opinion regarding the advantages of the steel gears, Ben, but I just don't know if this is some sort of meme or urban legend. I guess a lot depends on the amount of use and and quality of handling a S2 has received; I have one that seems fine but I'll admit that I'm bothered by the possibility of a gear problem and usually use an S2a. The S2 is such a work of art, and I'd like to keep it pristine!

Apologies for the double post; goodness knows where the second one came from, almost 1 1/2 hours after the first!

guys thanks for all your replies theres a lot of effort gone into those answers

Ive always wanted an s2/s2a i always liked the look of it

,when i was putting new light seals in my friends kieve 88 it reminded me to have another look for an s2 s2a again

funny thing is i found a bronicia leather case last night on e bay

and a nice s2 with a 75mm nikor lens for £150 from japan a good price for such a camera both separate buys so i bought both of them, post was ok and ill have import tax to the UK to pay from japan which will be ok too case was£30 from england

i already have an ec-tl a 50mm nikkor a75 mm and 150mm zanzanon a teleconverter and eye level prism viewfinder and 2 ec filmbacks and i love using the camera as my primary 6x6cm

ive also got an rb67 too with a set of lenses too

i think ill use the ec-tl alot more than the s2 and ill keep the s2 in its case with the nikkor lens on it .it will be easy to carry with an optech strap

im looking forward to using it i must get another ec-tl sometime too

thanks for all your posts i just had to buy it

some of my sharpest photos ive taken were on the ec-tl and hand held too

my kiev 88 owning friend wants a bronicia too hes so jealous ill let him use it too hes very carefull with classics

regards Andrew

We used to jokingly call them "Baroomicas" they feel very different from a lot of other 2 1/4 SLRs but they are very different internally with that split instant-return mirror.

that split instant-return mirror.

 

Just to be clear on this, only the EC and EC-TL have the split mirror.

 

The S/S2/S2a/C all have an instant return mirror, but it is one piece and actually drops DOWN rather than up. I think that both designs allow lenses to stick further into the mirror box than if the mirror went up. The down mechanism is actually fairly complicated-it slides forward and down, and then has another piece that comes up to cover it. You also have a piece that pops into place to cover the focusing screen. In a standard SLR with an up-moving mirror, you can just paint the entire mirror box flat black and use the back of the mirror to cover the focusing screen-the downward mirror leaves you with light bleed from the screen and reflections from the mirror if you don't cover them.

Are you sur

Just to be clear on this, only the EC and EC-TL have the split mirror.

 

The S/S2/S2a/C all have an instant return mirror, but it is one piece and actually drops DOWN rather than up. I think that both designs allow lenses to stick further into the mirror box than if the mirror went up. The down mechanism is actually fairly complicated-it slides forward and down, and then has another piece that comes up to cover it. You also have a piece that pops into place to cover the focusing screen. In a standard SLR with an up-moving mirror, you can just paint the entire mirror box flat black and use the back of the mirror to cover the focusing screen-the downward mirror leaves you with light bleed from the screen and reflections from the mirror if you don't cover them.

Are you sure?

I ask because even though it was 40+ years ago I remember the 2/3~ 1/3 split mirror & I never owned an SQ of any type, just anS2A?

Are you sure?

 

I have an S2 in my hand; it is as Ben says - one piece mirror, etc.

 

For Andrew, since I have now spoken up, I have no real knowledge with respect to the brass/steel gear issue.

i think it might be worthwhile to inspect the gears and give them a clean or some grease if needed

ive never taken a camera like this apart before ill see what i think when it arrives

i cant wait to run a film through it

thanks guys for your responces

I had wanted an S2 since I was in photo school in '69. Spotted an S2a w/40mm at auction about 10 years ago and got it for what I thought was a good price.

 

Since then I've added an S2 and assorted lenses and other stuff that makes them easier to use.

 

It's my go to 2 1/4 square W/A camera. My Rollei is usually along for the ride. I've never doubted the Bronica would get the shot. Almost always on a tripod and treated with respect.

 

I wore out an RB and a 645 in the studio. I'm nearing the end of my second career (non-photographic) and I enjoy hand made photography with well crafted instruments.

Are you sur

 

Are you sure?

I ask because even though it was 40+ years ago I remember the 2/3~ 1/3 split mirror & I never owned an SQ of any type, just anS2A?

 

I'm positive, and I'll post photos later this evening.

 

I use my S2a and C regularly, and for the time being have a couple of ECs on hand.

 

Just to be clear the split mirror was ONLY used on the EC and EC-TL. These used the same lenses as the S-series and were operationally very similar(cloth focal plane shutter) but were electronically controlled. The EC-TL adds aperture priority auto exposure.

 

The SQ series(which I also use) is a whole different ball game. Operationally, it's what I'd call a 500-type camera. It has in-lens leaf shutters(albeit electronically controlled Seikos) and a similar auxiliary shutter arrangement. The mirror flips UP and is not an instant return type like the earlier S/EC series cameras. Instead, it returns on the winding stroke-just like a 500 and a whole lot of other MF SLRs. Ultimately, the reliability, quietness(S-series cameras are loud) and 1/500 flash sync of the SQ-along with the very similar ETR and GS-1-won out and left us with what are probably the best known/remembered Bronica models.