Any way for exposure comp w/ auto ISO?

Discussion in 'Canon EOS' started by nathangardner, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. Is there any way to enable exposure compensation when using auto ISO on ANY Canon body. As far as I know it can't be done, but just
    thought I'd see if anyone knows something I don't. I like using exp comp in AV mode, but it would be better if I could expose to the right or left in
    M mode with auto ISO. Could this possibly be fixed with a firmware update in the future? I don't understand why the ISO
    selection by the camera couldn't simply be shifted, just as the aperture or shutter is in AV and TV, to over or underexpose as desired.
     
  2. Don't use "auto ISO", that's how.
    This is one of the good reasons to use the P setting instead of the 'green square' setting. You choose what ISO you want. The rest is still pretty much automatic.
     
  3. Is there any way to enable exposure compensation when using auto ISO on ANY Canon body.​
    Nathan, are you referring just to in M mode, or to all modes? I do it all the time in Av. I'm not sure I've tried it in M.
     
  4. [[Is there any way to enable exposure compensation when using auto ISO on ANY Canon body.]]

    I do not understand this question. I use EC, while Auto ISO is enabled, all the time in P, Av, and Tv.

    As far as I know, no Canon camera will let you use EC in M mode, Auto ISO or no Auto ISO.
     
  5. Are you perhaps asking about a quasi-Auto ISO Priority mode? Where the camera tries to center the meter with Auto ISO and then you override the ISO selection by some fractional (or whole) stop value based on your chosen aperture and shutter speed?
     
  6. William Michael

    William Michael Moderator Staff Member

    "I use EC, while Auto ISO is enabled . . . in P, Av, and Tv.

    . . . No Canon camera will let you use EC in M mode, Auto ISO or no Auto ISO.​
    +1.
    WW
     
  7. You can adjust EC in Tv mode (so that I can set the shutter speed)/Auto ISO - I use this arrangement with my 7D.
     
  8. EC works fine on my 5D2/7D while autoISO is enabled, just turn the QCD while metering is active. I haven't tried the green square mode but I think most user input is disabled. And, of course, EC and autoISO are silly in M mode since the idea is to set exposure according to experience, external meter, etc.
     
  9. And, of course, EC and autoISO are silly in M mode since the idea is to set exposure according to experience, external meter, etc.​
    Not necessarily (despite what a certain Mr Rockwell says). This does work on Nikons, and it's effectively how they've implemented what Pentax call "sensitivity priority" (you set shutter and aperture, the camera sets ISO for you). It's actually the mode that I usually live in - shutter speed and aperture both have more of a creative influence on the image than ISO does, so I want to control both manually while letting the camera sort out the exposure (within limits) by changing the ISO. Obviously if you want manual control over everything, you can just turn off auto-ISO.
     
  10. I have seen a lot of muddled thinking on this issue in various forums, usually arising from the semantics of the word "manual". I hoep that the following clarifies the issue.
    There are three parameters affecting exposure: aperture setting, shutter speed, and ISO. You can set each one of these manually, or allow the camera to choose. Here are the eight combinations.
    1. M mode, explicit ISO: all manual
    2. M mode, ISO A: aperture and shutter speed set manually, camera chooses ISO
    3. Av mode, explicit ISO: aperture and ISO set manually, camera chooses shutter speed
    4. Av mode, ISO A: aperture set manually, camera chooses combination of shutter speed and ISO
    5. Tv mode, explicit ISO: shutter speed and ISO set manually, camera chooses aperture
    6. Tv mode, ISO A: shutter speed set manually, camera chooses combination of aperture and ISO
    7. P mode, explicit ISO: ISO set manually, camera chooses combination of aperture and shutter speed
    8. P mode, ISO A: camera chooses combination of aperture, shutter speed and ISO
    The concept of exposure compensation as a separate setting is meaningless in case 1 because the camera is not making any choices for you; you just choose different settings to apply any desired compensation.
    We are all familiar with exposure compensation in cases 3 to 8 inclusive, achieved by using the QCD while metering is active, and with the setting being persistent for future exposures.
    The problem arises in case 2, often dismissed as meaningless by people who are not thinking straight on the basis that "you can't expect to apply exposure compensation in manual mode". Of course exposure compensation is meaningful: the camera is making a choice for you (ISO setting) in order to achieve what it thinks is correct exposure; but if, for any of the usual reasons, you know better, you may want the camera to give you a higher or lower ISO setting. The problem is that you can't do it.
    One reason for this may be that there is no spare dial with which to apply EC. In M mode (normally) you have aperture and shutter speed set (one way round or the other) using the main dial and QCD, so the QCD is not available to set EC as it is in other modes. But there are surely more than enough buttons on the camera to allow this to be overcome. For example, the SET button does nothing by default when the camera is shooting, and the things that it can be programmed to do while shooting duplicate functionality available with other controls. It would require no more than a minor firmware tweak to allow SET+main dial to be programmed to do EC in case 2.
    Would this be useful? Unequivocally YES.
     
  11. Would this be useful? Unequivocally YES.​
    +1
     
  12. Oh - never having had a two-dial Canon (sorry, I'm a 300D/Eos500/Eos620 owner that switched to Nikon who's lurking...) I didn't realise the rear dial on the big Canons is permanently set to exposure compensation. The two-dial Nikons have a button for exposure compensation, though you can set the camera to make whichever dial isn't in use to apply exposure compensation without the button being held down. Now I understand the confusion. :)

    (Don't worry, there are many minor tweaks I'd like to make to the Nikon BIOS. Allowing one of the programmable buttons to be set as an alias for the ISO button, which is positioned where I can't reach it right-handed on my cameras, is high on the list.)

    Incidentally, in full manual mode without auto ISO, exposure compensation still has an effect: it tells the meter where to centre its readout. If you want to photograph snow and therefore set the exposure compensation to +3EV, the meter should then be centred when you've got the exposure right. This is quite useful for telling you how far from central you are if you've got an extreme compensation in force, since the meter readout only shows a limited range.
     
  13. And, of course, EC and autoISO are silly in M mode​
    It is pretty much as far removed from "silly" as it's possible to get.
    You clearly haven't shot twitchy, hyperactive tiny birds that dive in and out from shadowy cover to full light and back again in the space of a second or less: believe me that Auto ISO/EC/Manual mode (wherein I can specify the shutter speed and aperture I need, letting the camera move up and down the ISO range to maintain shutter speed while I can compensate for the light where needed by moving the EC) is an absolute, unequivocal Godsend.
    The ability to do this is the only thing I miss from my Nikon days (and for the avoidance of any doubt, I used it 100% of the time - it wasn't just "occasionally" useful) and it pisses me off royally that Canon still hasn't "got it" yet.
    The instant I hear that the fine folks at Magic Lantern have put "proper" Auto ISO into their 7D firmware, I'll be the first person onto it.
     
  14. William Michael

    William Michael Moderator Staff Member

    “The problem arises in case 2, [M mode, ISO A: aperture and shutter speed set manually, camera chooses ISO] . . . the camera is making a choice for you (ISO setting) in order to achieve what it thinks is correct exposure; but if, for any of the usual reasons, you know better, you may want the camera to give you a higher or lower ISO setting. The problem is that you can't do it.
    Would this be useful? Unequivocally YES.”​
    +2
    Bravo Robin!
    Previously - Too many Buttons? The Use of Buttons?
    I wonder if Canon, is listening?
    WW
     
  15. Auto ISO adjusts the ISO in order to maintain selected parameter values such as a desired minimum shutter speed. Exposure
    compensation adjusts exposure parameters to use more or less light than what the meter suggests. I don't see any reason why the two
    would be mutually exclusive. They work together.

    If you want to shoot at 1/125s @ f/4 and the auto ISO selects 1600 to make that work, if you now dial in +1.0 EC, an ISO of 3200 would
    be selected instead.
     
  16. If you want to shoot at 1/125s @ f/4 and the auto ISO selects 1600 to make that work, if you now dial in +1.0 EC, an ISO of 3200 would be selected instead.​
    Dan, you can't do that; it is not possible to dial in any EC in M mode / A ISO, and the whole point of the discussion is that it ought to be possible.
    Previously - Too many Buttons? The Use of Buttons?
    I wonder if Canon, is listening?​
    Hello, Bill. Yes, another example of the need to get the minor-control ergonomics sorted out.
     
  17. William Michael

    William Michael Moderator Staff Member

    Hi Robin,
    As it occurs to me, you've put in some quality, pro-bono thinking and it is just hanging there for the picking - I really do wonder if Canon actually is listening.
    WW
     
  18. Sorry everyone, yes I mean while using M mode. I want to choose shutter and aperture but let the camera set ISO so I
    don't have to manually change it for each shot. But sometimes it would be nice to enable exp comp while doing this. Why can't the camera just bump to a higher ISO, just as it would a slower shutter or wider aperture when setting exp comp to te right in av or tv?
     
  19. It is pretty much as far removed from "silly" as it's possible to get.​
    Well, silly for me, maybe not for you. I like my manual mode just the way it is. Nevertheless, now that I read the entire thread, I realized nobody is actually talking about manual mode. What you guys actually want is another semi-auto mode and really should give it a more descriptive name like auto Av/Tv or deluxe program. Calling it manual mode is a misnomer once it has auto ISO and other CPU driven features. I have nothing against autoISO or EC--I use them all the time--but the manual aspect is lost as soon as the camera starts changing settings. I'd welcome another semi-auto mode to the fold but please don't call it manual mode when it ain't.
     
  20. Nathan: No idea. This is exactly what Nikons can do.

    Puppy: Agreed, it's not "manual" mode as such - though I was mistaken about what Pentax's "sensitivity priority" does, so I don't have a better name. A camera should really have four exposure dials (aperture, shutter speed, ISO, exposure compensation) all of which can be set to "auto" - though there are reasons to specify a range. Still, aperture priority is still aperture priority with auto-ISO enabled, and shutter priority is still shutter priority with auto-ISO, so "manual" is at least consistent, if misleading.

    Incidentally, I'm not saying that I don't use manual mode without enabling auto-ISO - I do sometimes set everything myself - it's just that the most common way I use the camera is to trust the meter (or at least, work with it). I use pretty much every mode on my camera from time to time. I do think I'd find this limitation very restrictive if I switched back to Canon - the only auto-ISO from Canon I've been exposed to is in my 300D, and that only worked in the "basic zone". On the other hand, with Nikon, I miss the A-DEP ability to light up all the sensor points in manual focus mode. Win some, lose some.
     
  21. With my canon dSLR, I always shoot aperture priority in auto-iso mode, specifying a minimum acceptable
    shutter speed. Exposure compensation works fine, with the camera still adjusting iso and/or shutter speed,
    to insure the lowest iso is always picked, while never going slower than the specified minimum shutter
    speed. Works great for me...
     
  22. Brad: I used to do this on my Nikon. The problem - at least on that camera - is that the acceptable minimum shutter speed varies by zoom and what your subject is doing, and that changing the minimum shutter speed is slow and inconvenient (involving menus). The good news is that you don't bounce off minimum ISO when in bright light. Canon and Nikon both now let the minimum shutter speed vary according to zoom length (I emailed both to request this a few years ago), which ought to make the aperture priority case more useful - but since it's nice to be able to accommodate subject movement and the stability of my perch as well, I still tend to stick to "manual" mode, especially indoors. It depends what I'm doing, though - I've even been known to use program mode occasionally...
     
  23. Exposure compensation wont have any effect in EV using auto ISO. any adjustments made in relation to exposure, the ISO will compensate for it. if you want ISO compensation maybe canon will add ISO priority to EV and Tv for after all during film days, ISO is fixed. thats why only Ev and Tv where made as semi auto. now since its digital age, it think another semi auto priority will be incorporated as well that is ISO priority although not that important to me. the reason why i used auto iso in Ev mode is because i want to have a consistent exposures to most of my photos especially in weddings or parties. every is within my desired speed and flash range. if ever my shoot becomes brighter or darker, i just compensate my shoot in flash compensation. not in exposure compensation.
     
  24. FYI, I emailed Chuck Westfall of Canon on this issue and he sent this response:
    As you may have seen on the web recently, the EOS-1D X is the first Canon DSLR to get exposure compensation in Manual mode with ISO Auto. This feature will be added with a new firmware update that's due out in January. We've received no information from Canon Inc. as to their plans for other existing EOS models like the 6D, but I will be happy to pass along your request for same.
    You can contact me for his email address.
     

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