Alternative weekly thread in Nature forum

Discussion in 'Nature' started by Laura Weishaupt, Jan 23, 2018.

  1. In the name of not hijacking MiN any further, I'd like for the discussion of an alternative thread to move here. Please, join in.

    This isn't to debate the merits of the the MiN guidelines.

    Shun, it sounds like you agree to the idea of an alternative weekly thread for nature images that don't qualify for MiN. I think it's a good idea. I also think that MiN will benefit from a companion thread.

    There is always a desire to encourage participation in any forum. So, bring some ideas to the table here. Keep the discussion healthy and positive.

    There was a suggestion of having said thread near or on the weekend. What does everyone think of that?

    Do you want to limit the number of posts per week? How many?

    What do you want to call it? Ot do you want it to have a name at all?

    Who's gonna start it? In an earlier post from MiN I suggested that someone take ownership to get things established.

    Does it need to be weekly?

    Do you want the thread to be another no words offering, or would you like some discussion? Seems like there's a lot less discussion that there used to be overall.
  2. Laura, I have lots of wildlife shots with "hand of man" in them and would be willing to participate if a new thread becomes active. Some random thoughts:
    1. Limit it to only 1 photo
    2. Weekly is fine but make it at end of week so to avoid conflict with existing MiN thread
    3. My preference is for a No Words format, i.e, minimal words that might describe location, lens, etc.
    DawsonPointers likes this.
  3. Vincent Peri

    Vincent Peri Metairie, LA

    Hmm... I think a new weekly
    thread called "Nature Weekly"
    might be popular. Especially if
    Great Apes are featured...
    dcstep and Sandy Vongries like this.
  4. Sandy Vongries

    Sandy Vongries Administrator Staff Member

    Wildlife, no pets or domestic - maybe no Zoo, but possibly freer environments - Safari Parks Game Farms, hand of man can be present, but the critter the important factor? How about one per week, but one 3 shot serendipity per month / participant for exceptional photographic good luck / outcome - called out. Strictly honor system.
  5. Hi, Laura, I'd participate in an alternate MiN forum. Agree that towards the end of the week would be good if weekly. There's already MiN on Monday and Wednesday Landscapes. I think there's a Phone Friday forum.

    I agree with Bill to limit it to one photo. The one-photo rule is part of the reason MiN is so good--variety! It's controversial but there are other places on PN to show your photos. More than one photo seems like a private club and, often, the photos aren't as good. Three or more photos by the same photographer in one forum, no, thanks.

    Discussion or not up to the photograhpers, not a "no words" forum. I like discussion relating to the photo if the taking of it involved something unusual, if it's unusual for the location where it was shot, etc. If I see a really good photo, I want to know more about it, the technique used, and the photographer.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  6. I like Nature Weekly. It's much better than what I was thinking.

    Good suggestions. Keep them coming.

    Sandy, maybe you don't know, but captive plants and animals have always been permitted in MiN, and would be welcome anywhere. This line comes from MiN guidelines
    "Captive subjects in zoos, arboretums, or aquariums are permitted, but must be declared, and must focus on the subject, not the captivity."

    Agree with Sally on all points, and cast a vote for 1 image.
    dcstep, sallymack and DawsonPointers like this.
  7. I would definitely post in such a forum. Since I live UTC -3, I may initiate it periodically, like Sally and Frank have done with MiN. How does the group feel about posts of the same photo in both forums? When I see the same photo in MiN and then again in Nikon Wed, I wonder why. It doesn't happen often. There would be a high potential between the MiN forum and the proposed forum. Perhaps any guidelines could state one or the other, if it matters.
    sallymack likes this.
  8. Double posts happen for many reasons. I've done it when I have one really good image surrounded by trash or I've put lots of post processing time into an image and I want to get some mileage from it. Personally, I don't think it matters. The proposed thread is for nature images that don't qualify for MiN, so there may not be much overlap. I think we'd all like to avoid a picture of the street with a bug in there somewhere.
    sallymack likes this.
  9. Confusion, especially at the beginning--what's the difference between MiN, Wed Landscapes, and NW (if it's to be)? Then, as Dawson pointed out, individual "equipment" forums (Canon, Nikon, etc.). I sometimes double-post to MiN and Nikon because I don't know if the Nikonistas check out the MiN forum. It comes down to the audience you want to see your photos.

    Not everyone posting to the new forum would necessarily be aware of the stricter guidelines for MiN or that the new forum would be, in a way, an offshoot of MiN. An explanation, such as Shun posted on the "Nature" forum regarding MiN, could be helpful.

    Overlapping images, double postings--it would get sorted out.
  10. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Since PSA already has a pretty clear definition for "nature photography" although they have some exceptions that can be debatable, I would like to make it clear that this new thread is not exactly nature photography in the stricter sense. Rather, it is mostly nature, but possibly with some human elements.

    How about call it "Mostly Nature Weekend" and start it on Friday or Saturday, or even Sunday? Since we are all in different time zones, the timing is slightly off anyway. That should make it clearly different from Monday in Nature.

    Personally, I favor a limit to 2 or 3 images per person for Monday in Nature, but since most people would like to limit that to just one image per person per week, we should have that same limit for this new weekly thread. I can't expect people to remember to post only 1 to MiN but suddenly they can post 2 to the new thread on the same forum.

    I recall that years ago (like 10 years), someone posted exactly the same image to Nikon Wednesday 3 or 4 times within a few weeks, until someone else complained. Sometimes it is difficult to remember whether one has posted a particular image before, especially on a different forum, and I don't think anybody is prepare to enforce any rule that an image cannot have appeared on forums before. Personally I try to post newly captured images from the last few days such that I cannot possibly have posted them in the past weeks. I think it would be good that nobody posts the same image to any weekly thread more than once on this forum, but that is up to each poster to decide.
  11. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    For example, at least in my mind, these images would fit a "mostly nature" thread quite well, but they all have signs of human activities so that they don't meet Monday in Nature criteria. The birds are standing on human-made structures and there is a cruise ship in the harbor. (There is also a town by the coast, but maybe that is not obvious.)

    Of course, if one chooses to, an image that meets Monday in Nature guidelines can appear in "Mostly Nature" as well. Just please don't post the same image to both threads.

  12. Yes, this is exactly what we're talking about. I point back to the osprey image in this weeks MiN as the perfect example. Shun, yours are equally perfect examples. Thanks for the posts to help clarify. This would be a companion thread to MiN. MiN remains exactly as it is.

    New threads usually stumble a bit, and then find their stride as folks get used to expectations. We can set some parameters and put that in writing with the understanding that some folks never read signs or instructions. I think folks will figure it out.....well, I hope so.:rolleyes:
  13. Tony Parsons

    Tony Parsons Norfolk and Good

    Laura (and others),

    If I may quote from one of your posts in MIN :
    'I like Tony's suggestion of humans benefiting nature, but that is only part of what happens out there. Frequently that contact zone becomes a disaster area for nature. The property adjacent to us was logged a few years ago. They did it in mid summer and impacted nesting throughout the area. The now open areas have been taken over by non native multiflora rose at the expense of native vegetation. I think both ends of the spectrum deserve attention.'

    I totally take your point on this, and I agree it is tragic that so much natural habitat is destroyed at the temporary whim of the human race - whenever I can, I try to add my voice to those protesting against yet another non-essential attack on dwindling natural resources.

    However, my suggestion, of images showing man and nature co-existing, was made purely because of the plethora of images, on many wildlife-oriented sites and in magazines, showing the deleterious effect humans can have on nature. If images could be posted showing the other side of the coin, whether by accident or design (such as in Deborah's Osprey nest image), it might give ammunition to those who wish to ameliorate the effects of the destruction, by pointing out the multitudinous ways in which nature can not only be accommodated, but can actually thrive, despite human depredations.

    Just a suggestion.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 24, 2018
  14. Tony,
    I was not trying to diminish your suggestion in any way. I'm sorry if it came across like that. Good news on any front is always welcome and provides a balance to the darkness out there. We need more of it. You are right in that, through photography, we can teach and help one another understand the good being done so that nature can live with us as we move more and more into the neighborhoods currently occupied by deer, bears, aquatic creatures, and avains. We all need to learn too coexist on so many levels.

    I like the idea of protecting through protesting. Hmmmm....I've been doing a bit of that lately, well, the protesting part for sure.
  15. Tony Parsons

    Tony Parsons Norfolk and Good

    Laura, it didn't come across that way - I'm sorry if my response gave you that impression, that was not my intention at all. You are very lucky living near deer, bears and aquatic creatures - all I ever see round here is a squirrel which does not seem impressed with humans !

    My thanks to the moderator who was kind enough to correct my mis-spelling in my original post.
    Laura Weishaupt likes this.
  16. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    Tony, no worries.

    Come to think of it, for Monday in Nature, we can just point to "no sign of human activities" (the so called no hands of men). However, for this thread that allows signs of human activities, the guidelines are even more vague as there are a lot of gray areas. Just take these sample images. I would think most people would agree that the image of the Vermont State House in Montpelier is not "mostly nature," but the two images of the Santa Cruz (California) beach and lighthouse are kind of borderline. The vertical version is probably more acceptable than the horizontal version, which shows a lot of people on the beach.

    As I have said before, the purpose for these threads is to have some fun and exchange ideas about nature photography. I would avoid turning them into debates about whether a particular image meets the guidelines for a thread. And I would avoid a lot of debates about environmental issues, not that those issues are unimportant, but such debates can get hostile and rarely lead to any conclusion.



  17. Just out of curiosity - would this image be allowed in MiN? On account of the railing clearly visible in the bird's eye?

    DawsonPointers and Norman 202 like this.
  18. ShunCheung

    ShunCheung Administrator

    I don't think we'll pick on something that minor in MiN. However, if you enter that image to some nature photography competition that uses PSA's guidelines, and your image happens to be a finalist, some judge could potentially nit pick it and disqualify your image.
  19. Vincent Peri

    Vincent Peri Metairie, LA

    Hmm... How about another
    name - "Man & Nature
  20. Tony,
    We're perfect friends...all is well.:)

    Jeez.......Yes, it's quite fine, fence rail and all. Wow, that's really nice. (Shun posted while I'm writing)

    "the purpose for these threads is to have some fun and exchange ideas about nature photography"
    Agreed. It's a good thought to keep sight of. Thanks for the reminder to keep environmental discussions under control. I'm probably the worst offender, so I'll be mindful of it. I would hope that contributors will use good sense and post images that are primarily nature, but happen to include those human elements that exclude an image from MiN. We all have them.

    Man and Nature.........not crazy about it, honestly. I liked your other suggestion better. Shun's is pretty good too. Mine are too wacky, so I'm keeping them to myself.

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