90mm Summicron Preset - wrong barrel?

Discussion in 'Leica and Rangefinders' started by george_daneliya, Nov 17, 2011.

  1. Hi, guys!
    Recently I've acquired 90mm preset Cron from a reputable dealer. I was hunting for a preset version lens specifically - plan to use it also with viso or on my Leicaflex Standard. But the lens came with a barrel, which, I suspect, is more typical for later crons from 70s (see the attached picture). Lens head itself, according to its s/n, is made in 1960. So, I think the lens barrel is not native for this lens. But I want to be sure before returning the item and asking for refund.
    Georgy
    00ZcWr-416613584.jpg
     
  2. According to this:
    http://www.kenrockwell.com/leica/90mm-f2.htm
    you would appear to have a 1960-style lens head on a later barrel.
    Furthermore, in any case, a lens of this type can be used as it is on a Leica M rangefinder camera or in a short focusing mount on an RF camera plus Visoflex. It will not fit a Leicaflex or Leica R.
    A Summicron-R looks like this:
    http://slrlensreview.com/web/leica-slr-lenses-133/telephoto-slr-lenses-140/417-leica-summicron-r-90mm-f2-e55-lens-review.html
    I believe it is a different optical design (telephoto, whereas the first version of the Summicron-M is long focus).
     
  3. Thank you, David! I saw that picture from Ken Rockwell's site - actually it raised my doubts. And I have an adapter to use the lens on a Leicaflex (although I don't yet have a short focusing mount). The lens is definatelly usable on a M Leica. But I paid a premium for a preset version, and, thus, want my lens to be authentic...
     
  4. George, I don't have a Summicron, but I do have a 90 Elmar and 135 Hektor with detachable heads and in both case the lens number was written in pencil on the inside of the lens barrel (visible only with the lens head removed). Does the barrel of your lens have a number in it?
     
  5. David, that's a good point. I removed the lens head, but the lens barrel does not show any numbers or other markings on it. I'm not even sure that the barrel was adjusted to that particular head.
     
  6. SCL

    SCL

    George, you can use the lens on at least certain Leicaflex models, but it requires a 16462 focusing mechanism (which isn't too easily found) plus a Leica M to R adapter 14167 (or its equivalent) - which is for a Visoflex mounted lens head + focusing adapter. I'm just not sure if it will fit the Leicaflex Standard mount. I know it works on the Leicaflex SL2 and R models as I used to have that setup before I sold the lens and switched to an 90/2.8 Elmarit (+16464 focusing mechanism).
     
  7. Your photo indicates a normal configuration of M lens 11123 (SEOOM) with 00001 (INVOO) preset diaphram. It matches the photo in James L. Lager's "Leica Illustrated Guide III". Over the life of the 11123, there were many configurations of aperture control, removable lens head, knurling, finish, minimum aperture, direction of travel of aperture, etc. I would say, based on Lager's discussion and photos, that there is nothing mismatched here. We will presumed that it is above serial no. 1651001 so that it has a removable head so that with appropriate adapters one can possibly accommodate your desires. This lens was before the Leicaflex so it might be possible with the 16463 (ZOOEP) short focusing mount and the 14127 adapter to put it on the Leicaflex.
     
  8. looks exactement like mine--bought new in store those 50 years ago in this precise configuration
     
  9. Thank you, guys!
    My question is simple - whether this particular lens head and that particular focusing mount were be made in the same 1960?
    As you, Floyd said, "over the life of the 11123, there were many configurations of aperture control, removable lens head, knurling, finish, minimum aperture, direction of travel of aperture, etc." That is exactly my point. My guess is that the focusing mount of my lens was made in 70s, while the lens head (s/n 1,818,xxx) - in 1960. The lens head could be sold initially in a short mount or without any mount at all (for use on bellows), and later some guy might adapted the lens head to this M focusing mount.
    Vilk, could you tell me the s/n of your lens? and if the distance scale on your lens is the same as on mine?
    Thank you!
    (P.S.: I know how to mount the lens on a Leicaflex - that is not my question.)
     
  10. You seem to miss our point that we are saying that it was made exactly that way in 1960 as illustrated in Jim Lager's book and as Vilk Inc. bought it new. Also, what difference does it make at this point?
     
  11. If you are a user, use it to take pictures, if a collector, then minutia may be paramount. Since two responders have indicated your combo is original then that IMHO seems to suffice. Good luck with whatever you end up doing.
     
  12. Floyd, thank you!
    Paul, I'm not a collector, but this lens is significantly more expensive than a plain non-preset cron, that's why I want to be sure the lens is authentic.
     

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