120 format slides?

<p>Hi, I intend to get into 120 format soon. </p>

<p>Generally speaking medium format slide projector are unheard of (from a practical use). Having shot 135 format I love to see them on a lightbox or projected if I have an audience. Do you guys miss that you cannot project medium format slides? Are you guys happy to just scan and print or whatever you do otherwise?</p>

<p>Many thanks.</p>

<p>It can be expensive, but not hard for 120. 6x6 is the easiest -- there are Rollei and Hasselblad projectors that are modern and still not too hard to find. The Pro Cabin 67Z is another good choice, and that can do 6x7 (even with a strip of negatives). After years of wanting to give MF projection a try, a friend of mine lent me a 67z. I have only had a little bit to try it out, but the results are very good. The resolution is wonderful, but I am a bit underwhelmed by the color and contrast at the moment. I think there are two things at play here -- 1. I live in Iceland and currently there are 24 hours of daylight...I have not found a dark enough place to truly test the projector. 2. My 35mm projector is a Leica Pradovit RT-m with ColorPlan lens...this seems to have a much better light source and lens...while the resolution cannot compete, the color and contrast seem to be better. </p>

<p>I would say if you are shooting 6x6 or below, the Hasselblad projector is the best bet -- very expensive, but supposed to be built like a tank and with modern high quality optics and lighting. If you are shooting 6x7, there was a German company called Goetschmann that made the best projectors. I am not sure if they are still around, but they were always hard to find and outrageously expensive (many thousands of dollars). </p>

<p>Meanwhile I mostly shoot black and white in medium format, but when I do shoot color, it is almost always slides. I do tend to scan and print them, but it will be nice now to have a chance to project as well! </p>

<p>To my mind the proper way to see photographs is in print. They're tangible and "always on". A print can be closely inspected or stood back from and admired. It can also be ignored if you wish and doesn't require a darkened room to view. Whereas the projected image can't be closely examined because the shadow of your head gets in the way! Plus screen textures usually ruin any fine detail. Yes, a projected image can have an impact that a print sometimes can't really match, but sitting in a blacked out room and being "forced" to watch someone else's pictures? Not for me thanks.</p>

<p>Many years ago I went to a slide-show by a guy who shot 6x6 transparencies. The quality is a revelation. I've shot 6x9 trannies on my now-defunct Mamiya Press 23 and they are a wonder to behold. </p>

<p>The quality of the Hasselblad projector. if you can find one, is simply terrific. To get the best of if it you really need to glass mount your slides- card mounted slides will "pop" in and out of sharp focus. One further warning- the Hasselblad projector is quite bulky and extremely heavy. Don't take one for a walk.</p>

<p>Meanwhile the Mamiya (Cabin) is more manual and more flexible. The push/pull sliders can take 645 , 6x6 or 67 or even I think x-pan panoramics. Quality is perfectly decent just not as good as the Hasselblad. </p>

<p>Well I dove into BW Reversal a while ago, just to get better scans. I've been so curious how they would look through a projector. I guess there is no hope for my 6x9.</p>

<p>You may have to look for a while and be patient, but there are 6x6 projectors out there. I have seen 6x9 projectors but they were kerosene powered :(</p>

<p>The only thing that can come close to a projected slide in any size, in my personal opinion, is to display the image on a high-quality monitor. It's the "inner light" that you don't get in prints.</p>

<p>Beseler Slide King, JDM, if you can find slide mounts. I've wanted one for years.</p>

<p>Kindermann also made 6x6 projectors and there were some smaller companies like CF in Cologne, Germany that were in the business in the 70ties and 80ties. Kiev in the Ukraine may still make one, but I see it rarely listed. Also Pentacon made one, which is equally hard to find. May be JDM has run into that one before? If you look on the big auction site for "Hasselblad PCP", you can find a few listings for sure any time. And new Rolleis are still available from B+H on special order. If you look at the price for these, you know why.<br>

Christoph</p>

<p>MF slide projection is fantastic, you can buy Rollei P11 (dual format: 35mm and 6 x 6) and Rollei P66 quite cheap today. Find it with (at least) the Heidosmat 150 f2.8 lens (not the plastic f 3.5) if you don't want spend more in the more expensive lenses or don't find it.<br>

You will be surprised by the "ooohh, aaaahhhh" of your audience.<br>

I recommend to use anti newton glass mount, I use that from GEPE.<br>

<a href="http://www.gepe.com/website/index.asp">http://www.gepe.com/website/index.asp</a><br>

Diego</p>

<p>While the Hasselblad projector would clearly be the most desirable, I have an ancient TDC projector that is totally manual for advance, etc., and with glass mounted 6x6 transparencies they still look very impressive. When you can find one, this should be this should be a $25 craigslist item, so no big deal if you aren't thrilled with it.</p>

<p>Other projectors you can look for are one from Bell & Howell and one from Bausch & Lomb. I had them both. The Bell & Howell is simpler and better because of it. The Bausch is still here with me but it jams.</p>

<p>"Do you guys miss that you cannot project medium format slides?"<br>

Ray, I still mount and project 6 X 6 slides, and there's no reason you can't as well. Medium format projectors are a bit thin on the ground, but they do turn up occasionally on the second hand market. A projected slide will beat a print hands down in my opinion.<br>

As for the stupid comment about being forced to view slides in a blacked out room, well no one is forcing you, are they?</p>

<p>I project my glass mounted slides using the Hasselblad projector. It's the end result I have in mind when shooting medium format. I've had high resolutions scans made for producing large prints which I have on my walls. But nothing compares to the projected image from the Hasselblad projector. Some may say I'm old school, but I just grin with contentment when I view the projected images on the big screen.<br>

I don't know if the Hasselblad brand projector is a requirement. But I wouldn't project a 6x6 slide without using a glass mount. </p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>But I wouldn't project a 6x6 slide without using a glass mount.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>For protection or flatness?</p>

<p>I moved to LF years ago and don't shoot MF anymore, but occasionally I view my 6x6 slides projected against a white wall, using a Rolleivision 66 projector and an incredibly sharp Schneider AV-Xenotar 2.8/150mm lens. There's an almost three dimensional effect - no other viewing method gives me the feeling of "being there again".</p>

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<p><br /> But I wouldn't project a 6x6 slide without using a glass mount.<br>

<br /> For protection or flatness?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Both.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Rolleivision 66 projector and an incredibly sharp Schneider AV-Xenotar 2.8/150mm lens. There's an almost three dimensional effect - no other viewing method gives me the feeling of "being there again".</p>

</blockquote>

<p>This is the most common comment I receive from friends when they see slide projected.<br>

By the way, I use the exact same set up as you (other than I hown a P11 with Heidosmat too) and can confirm that the Schenider AV-Xenotar 2.8/150 is superb, I compared it side by side with the Heidosmat and the Xenotar show fine details also in the corner far better than the Heidosmat. But if you buy the Heidosmat you do not feel the need of a better lens untill you do not compare them side by side simply because the Heidosmat is a very good lens too.</p>

<p>I picked up a Leitz/Linhof 6X7 projector about 10 years ago. Projected 6X7 transparencies are a sight to behold! I'm still looking for info on how many of these Leitz/Linhof projectors were manufactured, probably not many. Anyone have a clue? It looks to be of late 1950's or early 1960's design.</p>

<p>Tom, the Linhof is a modified Prado Universal, arguably one of the best medium format slide projectors ever made, and in some respects even better than the Hasselblad PCP80. I've had no luck finding out the dates of manufacture even after contacting Leitz. I think this projector was probably manufactured from the late 1960's through to the late 1970's. There appears to be very little information on the internet about this optical and mechanical gem.</p>

<p>I have never projected 6x6 slides. I did at one time mark the groundglass with 4x4 crop marks and cut the slides to fit 4x4 superslide mounts that fit a normal Pradovit projector. They were really impressive, filling the whole screen instead of being either portrait or landscape, so I can understand the desire to project 6x6. It does get a bit expensive though, not only finding the projector, having a big screen and big enough dark room (otherwise the effect is largely lost), and the mounts are not cheap either. </p>

<p>Ilkka, regarding the cost of glass mount: yes they are quite expensive but you discover that with MF you take less picture and you choose to project only the very best ones. And the slide can be disassembled and the glass mount reused. The projector today are not expensive, on the contrary, you can buy one (second hand) for less than you pay for a PC monitor, and the screen is also cheap.</p>

<p>I think it is very fiddly to have a set of some 20 or 50 mounts and then circulate them between slides one wants to show. It is prudent to mention the cost implications to a self-confessed beginner who is considering to get into medium format projecting. Obviously one shoots less on medium format film than on 35mm film, let alone digital. I have been shooting medium format for some thirty years now, just as long as 35mm film. I doubt there is a cheap medium format projector available in most places in the world at any given time. Sure, one might make occasional special finds, and lucky for one to do so, but there have only been a few manufacturers of medium format projectors and volumes have been small. PC monitors start at less than $200. Screen needs to be good and big enough. Not much point projecting 1m wide images from medium format. Personally I would like at least a 2m wide screen. Adorama lists 2.1m high screen at $428. Again, not so easy to find big screens in good condition second hand. Screens are stilll in demand for digital projection.<br>

Not meaning to criticise or be negative. Just good to know where one is getting into before making the leap.</p>

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<p>screen is also cheap</p>

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<p>just a comment - of course the screen does not know what size slide is being projected on it, but with glass bead or other "bright" screens you will gain brightness, but lose some of that IQ you're after, IMHO.<br>

A true-white matte screen may not be as bright, but it can be viewed at a wider audience angle and you don't lose the quality of the camera and projector lenses (both important here).<br>

A white wall is OK, but house paints are rarely true white, but normally have a lot of red, yellow, etc. in them.</p>

The light the projector lamp produces also isn't true white, but, thanks to our colour processing/compensating grey matter, that doesn't matter. Just like the white paint not being true white doesn't. ;-)

<p>Of course the light from a projector isn't absolutely white, but it's as near as makes no difference - added to the fact that it will vary depending on the manufacturer, projector design, light output, and of course the choice of lens. Given the choice, I would choose a painted white matt wall over a projector screen any day - although for practical purposes, I have to use a screen.</p>